Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,204
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 11, 2017 0:23:53 GMT -5
I'd like to remind people, we're talking about a 16 year old. It's not a little kid, but it's also not an adult.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 0:58:49 GMT -5
17, but who's counting?
Both he and New Jack were to blame for what happened.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,810
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Post by hassanchop on Jan 11, 2017 1:59:25 GMT -5
ECW vets including New Jack share their side of the story.
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Capt Lunatic
Unicron
Buttah in mah ass, lollipops in mah mouth
Posts: 3,241
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Jan 11, 2017 2:31:26 GMT -5
One of those situations where everyone involved ended up getting exactly what they deserved.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 11, 2017 8:15:24 GMT -5
The so-called news reports are very biased. They never once mentioned that Mass Transit was untrained, lied about his training and experience, and acted like an asshole to all the guys backstage before the match. They also made it seem like New Jack using 'a toaster' on his opponent during a match was somehow out of the ordinary in Extreme Championship Wrestling.
They also brought up the fact that New Jack was a convicted felon, as if that has any bearing on his ability to perform as a professional wrestler. Overall, those recordings were examples really shitty 'reporting' which, sadly, is common in the mainstream media.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 11, 2017 8:37:08 GMT -5
Heyman put a guy in the ring with New Jack without any sort of background check, the fact that that the person who vouched for him was his FATHER, who wasn't a trained wrestler himself, should have set alarmbells ringing that something wasn't legit. Nobody was innocent in this, but if it happened anywhere else, people would say the buck stops with the promoter.
If no-one in management knows who he is or has seen him wrestle a basic match, he does not belong in the ring, even as a jobber
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 11:17:16 GMT -5
The so-called news reports are very biased. They never once mentioned that Mass Transit was untrained, lied about his training and experience, and acted like an asshole to all the guys backstage before the match. They also made it seem like New Jack using 'a toaster' on his opponent during a match was somehow out of the ordinary in Extreme Championship Wrestling. They also brought up the fact that New Jack was a convicted felon, as if that has any bearing on his ability to perform as a professional wrestler. Overall, those recordings were examples really shitty 'reporting' which, sadly, in the mainstream media. That was my point bringing up selling the comedy match with a fat guy vs. two midgets. It's not like ECW was some brand-new company started last week. They have a reputation for violence and chaotic situations. Even if he did claim he was trained by a certain wrestler, wouldn't some other guys in the locker room know he's lying? What should have happened: "I'm sorry, without proof you are trained or of age, we will not use you. However, you are welcome to buy a ticket and watch the show."
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 11, 2017 11:34:51 GMT -5
New jacks the same guy who felt he got stiffed by some rookie in front of a crowd of four people so he decided rather than stiffing him back he'd just stab him repeatedly.
New Jack in the mass transit incident went over the line but you put this manatee in the ring with a lunatic and you really can't be surprised he'd step over the line.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 11, 2017 11:43:26 GMT -5
The so-called news reports are very biased. They never once mentioned that Mass Transit was untrained, lied about his training and experience, and acted like an asshole to all the guys backstage before the match. They also made it seem like New Jack using 'a toaster' on his opponent during a match was somehow out of the ordinary in Extreme Championship Wrestling. They also brought up the fact that New Jack was a convicted felon, as if that has any bearing on his ability to perform as a professional wrestler. Overall, those recordings were examples really shitty 'reporting' which, sadly, in the mainstream media. That was my point bringing up selling the comedy match with a fat guy vs. two midgets. It's not like ECW was some brand-new company started last week. They have a reputation for violence and chaotic situations. Even if he did claim he was trained by a certain wrestler, wouldn't some other guys in the locker room know he's lying? What should have happened: "I'm sorry, without proof you are trained or of age, we will not use you. However, you are welcome to buy a ticket and watch the show." My understanding of the context of the Mass Transit Incident is that one of the wrestlers who was scheduled to be in the match (I think Axl Rotten) could not make the show, so Paul Heyman was in a hurry to find someone to fill in the vacancy. Rather than take the word of some fat guy whose own father accompanied him to the event (and vouched for his experience), Heyman should have called a local promoter. That promoter could have provided Heyman with the contact information of some local talent that could be substituted for the absent wrestler. Heyman, New Jack, Mass Transit, and Transit's father all share some degree of blame for the incident. However, I do not sympathize with Mass Transit at all. That scumbag bragged to his father about being 'one of the boys' immediately after the match, only to turn around and then cry about being unexpectedly brutalized when interviewed by the news reporter.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,087
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Post by chrom on Jan 11, 2017 11:55:26 GMT -5
Seriously one look at him and you could've tell he was spouting BS about his background, Heyman should've known that something was off the moment from the first words of his mouth.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 11, 2017 13:27:10 GMT -5
There is blame to go around for everyone. Shitty situation indeed
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Jan 11, 2017 13:59:57 GMT -5
It's like that IWA match or what was it with that one guy wouldn't sell correctly so Axl or Ian Rotten and Mickie Knuckles beat the holy f**k out of him? Some people just don't belong in the ring or if you don't have the respect for those you are supposed to put over then whatever happens is on you.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,087
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Post by chrom on Jan 11, 2017 14:14:10 GMT -5
It's like that IWA match or what was it with that one guy wouldn't sell correctly so Axl or Ian Rotten and Mickie Knuckles beat the holy f**k out of him? Some people just don't belong in the ring or if you don't have the respect for those you are supposed to put over then whatever happens is on you. That incident which is just as shitty, happened when the guy bruised her forehead and she complained backstage he was going to cost her her chance to sign with TNA. So she and five others guys go backout and meet him in the ring and beat him up for real. But Karma's a funny thing, as she tear her ACL doing a stupid spot during it. And she wasn't going to get a spot with TNA anyway considering how Ian owed Jeff money and was refusing to pay him back.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 11, 2017 17:05:20 GMT -5
It's like that IWA match or what was it with that one guy wouldn't sell correctly so Axl or Ian Rotten and Mickie Knuckles beat the holy f**k out of him? Some people just don't belong in the ring or if you don't have the respect for those you are supposed to put over then whatever happens is on you. The guy you referred to (Mike Levy) was actually doing fine. The problem is that his opponent (Mickey Knuckles) no-sold his offense, so he started to get stiff with her to get her to work properly, and that caused the scumbag promoter (Ian Rotten) to go nuts with rage and brutalize him. I don't have a problem watching the Mass Transit Incident, but the thing with Mikey Levy makes me sick.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 11, 2017 17:20:58 GMT -5
It's like that IWA match or what was it with that one guy wouldn't sell correctly so Axl or Ian Rotten and Mickie Knuckles beat the holy f**k out of him? Some people just don't belong in the ring or if you don't have the respect for those you are supposed to put over then whatever happens is on you. The guy you referred to (Mike Levy) was actually doing fine. The problem is that his opponent (Mickey Knuckles) no-sold his offense, so he started to get stiff with her to get her to work properly, and that caused the scumbag promoter (Ian Rotten) to go nuts with rage and brutalize him. I don't have a problem watching the Mass Transit Incident, but the thing with Mikey Levy makes me sick. Yeah the Levy incident was a straight mugging.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,017
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Post by chazraps on Jan 11, 2017 20:50:05 GMT -5
It's like that IWA match or what was it with that one guy wouldn't sell correctly so Axl or Ian Rotten and Mickie Knuckles beat the holy f**k out of him? Some people just don't belong in the ring or if you don't have the respect for those you are supposed to put over then whatever happens is on you. The guy you referred to (Mike Levy) was actually doing fine. The problem is that his opponent (Mickey Knuckles) no-sold his offense, so he started to get stiff with her to get her to work properly, and that caused the scumbag promoter (Ian Rotten) to go nuts with rage and brutalize him. I don't have a problem watching the Mass Transit Incident, but the thing with Mikey Levy makes me sick. Didn't Levy wind up wrestling for $5 Dollar Wrestling before it went on hiatus?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 22:03:25 GMT -5
I was a Torch subscriber at the time, so anytime I hear Paul Heyman talk about how he went to (Request TV, a PPV provider) Hugh Pinero and showed him the tape of the incident, practically demanding "Here's the tape. Here's what happened. If you're gonna tell us to f*** off, tell me now", I roll my eyes. Paul did no such thing. It was Wade Keller (getting info on the upcoming PPV) who asked if anybody seen the tape, and they not only said no, they had no idea what they were being asked.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Jan 11, 2017 22:19:03 GMT -5
That was my point bringing up selling the comedy match with a fat guy vs. two midgets. It's not like ECW was some brand-new company started last week. They have a reputation for violence and chaotic situations. Even if he did claim he was trained by a certain wrestler, wouldn't some other guys in the locker room know he's lying? What should have happened: "I'm sorry, without proof you are trained or of age, we will not use you. However, you are welcome to buy a ticket and watch the show." My understanding of the context of the Mass Transit Incident is that one of the wrestlers who was scheduled to be in the match (I think Axl Rotten) could not make the show, so Paul Heyman was in a hurry to find someone to fill in the vacancy. Rather than take the word of some fat guy whose own father accompanied him to the event (and vouched for his experience), Heyman should have called a local promoter. That promoter could have provided Heyman with the contact information of some local talent that could be substituted for the absent wrestler. Heyman, New Jack, Mass Transit, and Transit's father all share some degree of blame for the incident. However, I do not sympathize with Mass Transit at all. That scumbag bragged to his father about being 'one of the boys' immediately after the match, only to turn around and then cry about being unexpectedly brutalized when interviewed by the news reporter. Of course- but there were also the problems with the situation forgotten as well: Again, the "he was in comedy matches against two midgets thing" does help the "experience" claims: It's not like it's some random fan walked in and tried to fight- or even some backyarder claiming he wrestled (and on the super-small indy scene, that DOES happen surprisingly often for backyarders getting onto shindy shows). Likewise, it wasn't just "his father who vouched for his experience", but also the two midgets he worked with- making it clear it was more "the guy had some experience, but not a lot- and he was NOWHERE NEAR ready or good enough for a major promotion and found out the hard way" Likewise, the "Kowalski training" thing hurt things as well, because even in New England, it's still a problem. If someone says they're trained by Kowalski...honestly? It's known in New England that Kowalski's school's reputation was "he'll train literally anyone who has the money to be trained", and any local promoter in New England- heck, even Kowalski students in the ECW locker room like Perry Saturn- would agree "He claims he's a Kowalski student" would be "...I can buy it". Maybe they ask a few questions about the camp only a student could know, but it's not as hard to believe as someone would think. Either way, this actually makes Mass Transit less sympathetic as well- as it turns from "untrained kid gets in the ring with New Jack and gets mauled for it" into "some small-time guy truly thought this was going to be his big break in pro wrestling, gets destroyed by New Jack, finds out quickly he's not getting in ECW and the notoriety probably made sure he's NEVER getting booked outside the shindies ever again, and then whined and cried about the brutalization when it became clear his career is basically over."
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jan 11, 2017 22:38:38 GMT -5
It's Paul Heyman's fault, first and foremost. How rinky dink do you have to be to put both this kid and your talent in that situation.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,005
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 11, 2017 22:40:10 GMT -5
Its a story where there is no right party and everyone concerned is to blame. Its a testament to Heyman's version of business practice that he took a person he had never met before and who had no professional background and put him into a ring in a freaking hardcore match against New Jack, of all people. On that same note, the kid LIED about his age and experience, and it was frigging ECW-the promotion already had a rep for doing insane shit in its matches, and if he wanted to be a wrestler so badly how on earth could he not have known that? And as for New Jack...well...he's New Jack, what more do I need to say?
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