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Post by romanstylesiii on Mar 9, 2017 4:00:05 GMT -5
Roman being booed that it's his fault? If Roman never winked at the camera, poisoned Stephanie's drink (she puked on Vickie) made a ton of bad jokes, won a Rumble that everyone wanted D-Bry to win, etc, Roman would not be booed this harshly right now.
I feel bad for Roman. Vince trying to fix the situation has just made it worse.
Im sure Roman knew these jokes suck, but has to go out there and deliver them anyways.
According to the dirt sheets, Vince demanded Seth Rollins call Jericho "sparkle crotch", for which it was reported he was laughing at, but the issue is that no one in the audience thought it was funny.
Does Vince get he's the problem, or do we have to wait for him to get even older and crazier and see the problems grow?
EVERYTIME he (Vince) is reported to be involved in writing the dialogue for a wrestler, the dialogue is just terrible, not funny, not topical, and just terrible
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 4:48:06 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, putting him in The Shield instead of Ohno during CM Punk's initial proposal, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 4:50:14 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, put him in The Shield, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks. I think he is. Vince wanted to push Big E, but Tri wanted Reigns.
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Mar 9, 2017 5:14:32 GMT -5
According to the dirt sheets, Vince demanded Seth Rollins call Jericho "sparkle crotch", for which it was reported he was laughing at, but the issue is that no one in the audience thought it was funny. I agree with most of the OP, but this is revisionist history. The audience laughed and even started a "Sparkle Crotch" chant.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 9, 2017 5:22:36 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, put him in The Shield, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks. I think he is. Vince wanted to push Big E, but Tri wanted Reigns. To be fair to Hunter, I imagine he backs Roman because he knows he can convince Vince to go along with it, whereas someone like Rollins or Ambrose might be a harder sell to Vince, and we might end up with ultra-bland pre-New Day Big E in the main event against Lesnar, which would have likely sucked worse.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Mar 9, 2017 6:04:29 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, putting him in The Shield instead of Ohno during CM Punk's initial proposal, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks. Yeah, and TLC 2015 had the fans cheering him, as well as the following night. Instead of following up on that momentum and keeping Roman as just a silent ass kicker, they went back to trying to make him an underdog.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 9, 2017 6:18:50 GMT -5
a big part of Roman's failing belongs to Roman. dude was handed the world on a silver platter and just didn't step up and show anything special at all. I'm not saying Vince is blameless because a lot of it is totally his fault, but people need to stop treating Roman with kid gloves.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Mar 9, 2017 6:34:07 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, putting him in The Shield instead of Ohno during CM Punk's initial proposal, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks. My take on it is that HHH was/is a huge Roman Reigns supporter, got him in The Shield over Ohno, and whatnot. But everything else has Vince's fingerprints all over it. I think Vince saw he had something in Roman and just ran with it....in the absolute shittiest, worst, career killing way possible. I've listed the forced wins, pushes, accolades, promos etc in other threads, and recently we had FAN REACTIONS SWITCHED during a loss Reigns had on Raw. That is all Vince. 100%. Reportedly Hunter wanted to turn him heel well over a year ago, way before anyone was injured and they chose to keep him face, but that was nixed by Vince. HHH may have been a Reigns guy and got him the spot, but everything else over the last couple years is all Vince. I still think if HHH were running the show he would have saved him because he knows it's not working. Vince has final say in everything. No one else does. And the dude was writing Roman's promos for him. If Vince, the boss, is writing the mans promos, he's in charge of every single other aspect of his character. I guaran-damn-tee it. *cue video of Roman cutting a promo on a ladder and then hanging his head when he thinks the camera is off of him because even he knows it's crap* a big part of Roman's failing belongs to Roman. dude was handed the world on a silver platter and just didn't step up and show anything special at all. I'm not saying Vince is blameless because a lot of it is totally his fault, but people need to stop treating Roman with kid gloves. I'm a huge Roman detractor and I don't see it that way. He's getting the Cena booking almost to the letter. Well Cena at least had secondary titles to build himself around, so maybe not to the letter. But close. Seriously if you worked at a job, and based on your appearance alone they were like: "Hey you're not ready to talk in front of people, or do the job on your own as you've been protected for two years...but....do you want a championship match your first big event on your own? Do you want the boss writing just for you? Do you want to win Employee of the Year in a fixed poll that has way more popular workers on it? Do you want to be featured last in our weekly opening video? Do you want to be shoved down the customers throats like we did your predecessor? Also do you want to have HUGE paydays in main events on our largest show of they year even though you're not ready, don't deserve it, and will eventually win the main prize while "getting better" even though that prize should be reserved for the best the company has to offer? No one would turn that down. The dude is probably a millionaire already, making more than Rollins and Ambrose. ------------------------------------------------- Buuuuut long answer short. No Vince doesn't think this is his fault. Vince is the archetype of a megalomaniac, and you know damn well nothing is ever his fault.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 9, 2017 6:44:39 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, putting him in The Shield instead of Ohno during CM Punk's initial proposal, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks. My take on it is that HHH was/is a huge Roman Reigns supporter, got him in The Shield over Ohno, and whatnot. But everything else has Vince's fingerprints all over it. I think Vince saw he had something in Roman and just ran with it....in the absolute shittiest, worst, career killing way possible. I've listed the forced wins, pushes, accolades, promos etc in other threads, and recently we had FAN REACTIONS SWITCHED during a loss Reigns had on Raw. That is all Vince. 100%. Reportedly Hunter wanted to turn him heel well over a year ago, way before anyone was injured and they chose to keep him face, but that was nixed by Vince. HHH may have been a Reigns guy and got him the spot, but everything else over the last couple years is all Vince. I still think if HHH were running the show he would have saved him because he knows it's not working. Vince has final say in everything. No one else does. And the dude was writing Roman's promos for him. If Vince, the boss, is writing the mans promos, he's in charge of every single other aspect of his character. I guaran-damn-tee it. *cue video of Roman cutting a promo on a ladder and then hanging his head when he thinks the camera is off of him because even he knows it's crap* a big part of Roman's failing belongs to Roman. dude was handed the world on a silver platter and just didn't step up and show anything special at all. I'm not saying Vince is blameless because a lot of it is totally his fault, but people need to stop treating Roman with kid gloves. I'm a huge Roman detractor and I don't see it that way. He's getting the Cena booking almost to the letter. Well Cena at least had secondary titles to build himself around, so maybe not to the letter. But close. Seriously if you worked at a job, and based on your appearance alone they were like: "Hey you're not ready to talk in front of people, or do the job on your own as you've been protected for two years...but....do you want a championship match your first big event on your own? Do you want the boss writing just for you? Do you want to win Employee of the Year in a fixed poll that has way more popular workers on it? Do you want to be featured last in our weekly opening video? Do you want to be shoved down the customers throats like we did your predecessor? Also do you want to have HUGE paydays in main events on our largest show of they year even though you're not ready, don't deserve it, and will eventually win the main prize while "getting better" even though that prize should be reserved for the best the company has to offer? No one would turn that down. The dude is probably a millionaire already, making more than Rollins and Ambrose. we can agree to disagree on that one point but I do wonder how much of a return on his bum investment Vince is getting if he's paying Roman a contract that's likely way out of proportion with the revenue he actually generates.
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Post by Dub H on Mar 9, 2017 8:07:33 GMT -5
Yeh, it is not 100% Vince fault or Roman's.Both have their fault at this. Roman was never going to be THE top guy,that is his fault.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 9, 2017 8:39:56 GMT -5
What I don't understand is the bizarre reluctance to just turn the guy. With Cena I could at least see him being a solid natural babyface that was scripted in dubious fashion at times. But Reigns? The guy has the greasy look and build of a power heel. Put a suit and some sunglasses on the guy and he would easily be a Corporate Champ type guy or a member of Evolution. It is this notion that makes me baffled that anyone would see unquestioned top babyface in the guy. He is miscast in the role. The Strowman match was evidence of it since Braun was trying his damnedest but Reigns just can't sell or draw sympathy well enough to make some rousing babyface comeback.
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Post by Reflecto on Mar 9, 2017 10:18:27 GMT -5
I think he is. Vince wanted to push Big E, but Tri wanted Reigns. To be fair to Hunter, I imagine he backs Roman because he knows he can convince Vince to go along with it, whereas someone like Rollins or Ambrose might be a harder sell to Vince, and we might end up with ultra-bland pre-New Day Big E in the main event against Lesnar, which would have likely sucked worse. On the contrary, if @supersweetbotch 's original conspiracy theory is correct that "Vince wants Roman to fail for being a Triple H guy, and wants Big E to succeed like @conviction has said...that wouldn't be that sell. Notice the difference between them: The one Vince allegedly didn't want, Roman? He got ultra-scripted and fine-tuned by Vince to be the "corporate choice" and not allowed to have a thought of his own- like the failed experiments WWE made. Big E on the other hand? He got WWE to say with New Day "We give up, do what you want"- allowing him and New Day to develop their own, dynamic characters with great promos in their own voices- the same way all the best stars levelled up. There is no way Big E in the main event wouldn't be the same New Day Big E we already like- heck, Xavier Woods and/or Kofi Kingston may even have still been his allies. What I don't understand is the bizarre reluctance to just turn the guy. With Cena I could at least see him being a solid natural babyface that was scripted in dubious fashion at times. But Reigns? The guy has the greasy look and build of a power heel. Put a suit and some sunglasses on the guy and he would easily be a Corporate Champ type guy or a member of Evolution. It is this notion that makes me baffled that anyone would see unquestioned top babyface in the guy. He is miscast in the role. The Strowman match was evidence of it since Braun was trying his damnedest but Reigns just can't sell or draw sympathy well enough to make some rousing babyface comeback. Again, the problem is it boils down to two facts: Vince is stubborn, set in his ways, and is willing to ignore any other fact just to spite the people against him...and So are we. Because the fans are stubborn, though, Vince can't do that, because the fans- and WWE KNOWS THIS, the fans KNOW WWE knows this, and secretly, a lot of fans seem to know that WWE is absolutely right about them- won't let a Roman heel turn change things, because all sides pretty much know the bad blood has gone on too long for a heel turn to save Roman like the talking point has been. It's much more likely to be "You're only turning Roman heel so that we'll like him! Well, screw you! I WON'T LIKE ROMAN AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 10:27:10 GMT -5
I'm under the conspiracy theory that Roman Reigns is a big Triple H guy. Triple H was the one who lobbied for Reigns to win The Rumble, to face Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania, putting him in The Shield instead of Ohno during CM Punk's initial proposal, and convinced Vince to end TLC 2015 with Roman Reigns beating down HHH. There's a Bret Hart criticizing Roman Reigns in turning into a Triple H kind of babyface wrestler in not selling, not selling pain for sympathy, and making bunch of explosive comebacks. Triple H has clout but I don't know if he has enough of it to take up two years of the WWE's time trying to force a Roman Reigns superface push. I feel like if there was any debate between Vince and Triple H that Reigns was the guy, Vince would be telling Triple H "I told you so" much earlier than now and moving on to the next guy. Even looking at when Triple H selflessly made Batista versus whatever that was with Roman Reigns, it's hard for me to believe that Triple H's investment is much stronger than Vince's. The Roman Reigns feud felt like Triple H just doing what he was told, him beating up and bloodying Roman Reigns in front of a bloodthirsty crowd and doing the "suck it" taunt seemed like a guy who didn't mind that he was inadvertently the face of the feud. Suffering succotash, 20 minute monologues about Bray Wyatt, "I'm not a bad guy, not a good guy, I'm the guy," all that stuff just feels like Vince McMahons wackiness.
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Post by corndog on Mar 9, 2017 11:27:53 GMT -5
To be fair to Hunter, I imagine he backs Roman because he knows he can convince Vince to go along with it, whereas someone like Rollins or Ambrose might be a harder sell to Vince, and we might end up with ultra-bland pre-New Day Big E in the main event against Lesnar, which would have likely sucked worse. On the contrary, if @supersweetbotch 's original conspiracy theory is correct that "Vince wants Roman to fail for being a Triple H guy, and wants Big E to succeed like @conviction has said...that wouldn't be that sell. Notice the difference between them: The one Vince allegedly didn't want, Roman? He got ultra-scripted and fine-tuned by Vince to be the "corporate choice" and not allowed to have a thought of his own- like the failed experiments WWE made. Big E on the other hand? He got WWE to say with New Day "We give up, do what you want"- allowing him and New Day to develop their own, dynamic characters with great promos in their own voices- the same way all the best stars levelled up. There is no way Big E in the main event wouldn't be the same New Day Big E we already like- heck, Xavier Woods and/or Kofi Kingston may even have still been his allies. What I don't understand is the bizarre reluctance to just turn the guy. With Cena I could at least see him being a solid natural babyface that was scripted in dubious fashion at times. But Reigns? The guy has the greasy look and build of a power heel. Put a suit and some sunglasses on the guy and he would easily be a Corporate Champ type guy or a member of Evolution. It is this notion that makes me baffled that anyone would see unquestioned top babyface in the guy. He is miscast in the role. The Strowman match was evidence of it since Braun was trying his damnedest but Reigns just can't sell or draw sympathy well enough to make some rousing babyface comeback. Again, the problem is it boils down to two facts: Vince is stubborn, set in his ways, and is willing to ignore any other fact just to spite the people against him...and So are we. Because the fans are stubborn, though, Vince can't do that, because the fans- and WWE KNOWS THIS, the fans KNOW WWE knows this, and secretly, a lot of fans seem to know that WWE is absolutely right about them- won't let a Roman heel turn change things, because all sides pretty much know the bad blood has gone on too long for a heel turn to save Roman like the talking point has been. It's much more likely to be "You're only turning Roman heel so that we'll like him! Well, screw you! I WON'T LIKE ROMAN AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!" Actually if they were able to turn Roman heel and we would still boo him, that would be a success. Everytime I hear someone on the inside of WWE talk about their reasoning for never turning Cena it was simple, they think the people that hated him would cheer and the kids that bought his merch would boo. So they stick with the status quo. Difference is, Reigns doesn't move merch like Cena, so it shouldn't be an issue. All they really have to do is quietly turn him heel, basically just keep doing what they are doing now. Have him go up against faces.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 11:52:30 GMT -5
On the contrary, if @supersweetbotch 's original conspiracy theory is correct that "Vince wants Roman to fail for being a Triple H guy, and wants Big E to succeed like @conviction has said...that wouldn't be that sell. Notice the difference between them: The one Vince allegedly didn't want, Roman? He got ultra-scripted and fine-tuned by Vince to be the "corporate choice" and not allowed to have a thought of his own- like the failed experiments WWE made. Big E on the other hand? He got WWE to say with New Day "We give up, do what you want"- allowing him and New Day to develop their own, dynamic characters with great promos in their own voices- the same way all the best stars levelled up. There is no way Big E in the main event wouldn't be the same New Day Big E we already like- heck, Xavier Woods and/or Kofi Kingston may even have still been his allies. Again, the problem is it boils down to two facts: Vince is stubborn, set in his ways, and is willing to ignore any other fact just to spite the people against him...and So are we. Because the fans are stubborn, though, Vince can't do that, because the fans- and WWE KNOWS THIS, the fans KNOW WWE knows this, and secretly, a lot of fans seem to know that WWE is absolutely right about them- won't let a Roman heel turn change things, because all sides pretty much know the bad blood has gone on too long for a heel turn to save Roman like the talking point has been. It's much more likely to be "You're only turning Roman heel so that we'll like him! Well, screw you! I WON'T LIKE ROMAN AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!" Actually if they were able to turn Roman heel and we would still boo him, that would be a success. Everytime I hear someone on the inside of WWE talk about their reasoning for never turning Cena it was simple, they think the people that hated him would cheer and the kids that bought his merch would boo. So they stick with the status quo. Difference is, Reigns doesn't move merch like Cena, so it shouldn't be an issue. All they really have to do is quietly turn him heel, basically just keep doing what they are doing now. Have him go up against faces.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 9, 2017 12:05:22 GMT -5
The Philly crowd that raged at him winning the Rumble turned around and cheered him when he first won the title on an episode of Raw in the same exact venue; that tells you the fans don't despise Roman himself, they despise the way he's utilized.
If they don't turn him against the Undertaker, they're never turning him.
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Post by Tenshigure on Mar 9, 2017 12:14:58 GMT -5
a big part of Roman's failing belongs to Roman. dude was handed the world on a silver platter and just didn't step up and show anything special at all. I'm not saying Vince is blameless because a lot of it is totally his fault, but people need to stop treating Roman with kid gloves. Doesn't help that he comes off as one of the most complacent "top guys" at the moment. He consistently comes off as a guy who will do whatever the front office asks of him without question and when asked about it, all he ever says is things like, "There is no one reason why someone would want to boo me, I'm just here to get paid and paid well, and it's not my problem if you don't like it."
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Post by thegame415 on Mar 9, 2017 12:15:03 GMT -5
It's the writing. Always has been. Roman is a character who does what he's told.
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Mar 9, 2017 12:25:58 GMT -5
It's the writing. Always has been. Roman is a character who does what he's told. I think another part of the issue is that while Roman has a great look and is pretty solid in the ring, someone thought he had Rock level mic skills and gave him nonsensical crap that the Rock MIGHT be able to get over, but Roman can't. Roman's done everything the office has asked of him, and done it well, short of those promos. They got him cheered in Philly, so it CAN be done.
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Post by Dub H on Mar 9, 2017 12:27:38 GMT -5
It's the writing. Always has been. Roman is a character who does what he's told. I think another part of the issue is that while Roman has a great look and is pretty solid in the ring, someone thought he had Rock level mic skills and gave him nonsensical crap that the Rock MIGHT be able to get over, but Roman can't. Roman's done everything the office has asked of him, and done it well, short of those promos. They got him cheered in Philly, so it CAN be done. He could just be an ass-kicke,rhe would still be rejected when pushed as he was.He just isn't good enough to be pushed that hard
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