Todd in the Shadows: One Hit Wonderland - "MMMBop" by Hanson

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 8, 2017 6:13:25 GMT -5 sfvega said:

Apr 7, 2017 11:30:28 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Depends.

Is a hit a number you reach?

Or is a hit something people know about?

I'd go with the second. If you sell a crapload and 5 years later no one remembers, to me that's not a true hit.

That's kinda not the point though. It absolutely matters what it did at the time, because without taking that into account, it's not a hit. People forget TONS of songs (ESPECIALLY throw away pop, which makes up the majority of hits to begin with), that doesn't take away from the success they had. That's just revisionist history. You could say that Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" is one of the biggest hits of the 80's since nobody can ever forget it now. But that's entirely not true.

You can say that now, but you if you were looking at the career of Rick Astley even before the Rickroll stuff, you would say that was his big hit, and the one people were likely to remember, even though he had another number 1.

I prefer "Together Forever", it was a huge hit, but mention the name "Rick Astley" and 99 times out of 100 you'll get one answer.

If you go by the 100% literal, strictest sense, there's hardly any such thing as a one hit wonder. Anything that got big enough to make people care, it'd have enough momentum to get a second hit before they went away.

Plus, end of the day, it's his series, he can define it how he wants. Someone else wants to do an episode of literal ones, go ahead, it'd last 6 months.

[karl100589]

The definition of One Hit Wonder I have always used is "Any entity that achieves mainstream popularity and success for a very short period of time, often for only one piece of work, and becomes known among the general public solely for that momentary success."

Even though bands like Men Without Hats did have successful songs after the safety dance, it is the first thing that people think of when they talk about the band.

I came across a similar issue with one of my recent YT videos, I did a video on MMA one hit wonders, and created a massive argument over whether Holly Holm counted as one.

[ANuclearError]

I can't help but find this whole thread amusing considering he addressed this discussion in the video itself.

He auctioned the episode on Patreon, someone requested he do this song. He didn't want to do the song because he didn't believe it was a One-hit wonder, but they really wanted him to do it, so he did, even specifying that this should be an extremely rare exception.

You all coulda saved yourselves a lot of hassle if you watched it again.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

It's a fun argument, always got time for that.

[ANuclearError]

My only real issue with the series is that it's naturally from an American point of view, which can't be helped. Meaning that as a Scot, we have very different one hit wonders, the Proclaimers being the most obvious example. I'd love to see a UK rip-off the series by someone as competent.

[sfvega]

Apr 8, 2017 6:28:24 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 8, 2017 6:13:25 GMT -5 sfvega said:

That's kinda not the point though. It absolutely matters what it did at the time, because without taking that into account, it's not a hit. People forget TONS of songs (ESPECIALLY throw away pop, which makes up the majority of hits to begin with), that doesn't take away from the success they had. That's just revisionist history. You could say that Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" is one of the biggest hits of the 80's since nobody can ever forget it now. But that's entirely not true.

You can say that now, but you if you were looking at the career of Rick Astley even before the Rickroll stuff, you would say that was his big hit, and the one people were likely to remember, even though he had another number 1.

I prefer "Together Forever", it was a huge hit, but mention the name "Rick Astley" and 99 times out of 100 you'll get one answer.

If you go by the 100% literal, strictest sense, there's hardly any such thing as a one hit wonder. Anything that got big enough to make people care, it'd have enough momentum to get a second hit before they went away.

Plus, end of the day, it's his series, he can define it how he wants. Someone else wants to do an episode of literal ones, go ahead, it'd last 6 months.

MOST artists have one song that stands out, that has no bearing on this really. I wasn't calling Astley a one hit wonder, I was saying that how much people remember something doesn't make it a bigger hit in retrospect. Judging how big something was at the time by people's memory of it years and years later is wildly subjective at best and just really silly at worst. A lot of people don't remember the songs of certain one hit wonders, does that make them no hit wonders? So now artists that actually fit the actual description fall out of that category because you've changed the definition.

I'm not saying this YouTube guy CAN'T throw them in the heap with one hit wonders for the sake of his channel, I'm just saying it's merely inaccurate. Not in the "strictest" sense, but in what the phrase actually means. You can throw RHCP in there for all I care to try and get views. It's no skin off my nose, as I'll never watch it. But it's still inaccurate.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 8, 2017 8:05:09 GMT -5 sfvega said:

Apr 8, 2017 6:28:24 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

You can say that now, but you if you were looking at the career of Rick Astley even before the Rickroll stuff, you would say that was his big hit, and the one people were likely to remember, even though he had another number 1.

I prefer "Together Forever", it was a huge hit, but mention the name "Rick Astley" and 99 times out of 100 you'll get one answer.

If you go by the 100% literal, strictest sense, there's hardly any such thing as a one hit wonder. Anything that got big enough to make people care, it'd have enough momentum to get a second hit before they went away.

Plus, end of the day, it's his series, he can define it how he wants. Someone else wants to do an episode of literal ones, go ahead, it'd last 6 months.

MOST artists have one song that stands out, that has no bearing on this really. I wasn't calling Astley a one hit wonder, I was saying that how much people remember something doesn't make it a bigger hit in retrospect. Judging how big something was at the time by people's memory of it years and years later is wildly subjective at best and just really silly at worst. A lot of people don't remember the songs of certain one hit wonders, does that make them no hit wonders? So now artists that actually fit the actual description fall out of that category because you've changed the definition.

I'm not saying this YouTube guy CAN'T throw them in the heap with one hit wonders for the sake of his channel, I'm just saying it's merely inaccurate. Not in the "strictest" sense, but in what the phrase actually means. You can throw RHCP in there for all I care to try and get views. It's no skin off my nose, as I'll never watch it. But it's still inaccurate.

And I'm of the opinion that retrospectively, it does change peoples' perceptions.

Is it subjective? Hell yes, but any form of nostalgia is, since the definition of that is what people remember fondly.

If a band has hits no one remembers, well, this won't come up because no one will ask about them so by default they're excluded. If someone remembers them, then yes, they had a hit and their work can be gone into like this.

[Mozenrath]

Apr 8, 2017 6:51:49 GMT -5 ANuclearError said:

My only real issue with the series is that it's naturally from an American point of view, which can't be helped. Meaning that as a Scot, we have very different one hit wonders, the Proclaimers being the most obvious example. I'd love to see a UK rip-off the series by someone as competent.

He does usually mention if they had hits over seas, but yeah, it can't be helped. His knowledge of some acts is going to be limited to what he can find on them, and that gets more difficult for stuff popular outside of speaking countries, for example, like the Rock Me Amadeus guy.

[sfvega]

Apr 8, 2017 8:12:20 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 8, 2017 8:05:09 GMT -5 sfvega said:

MOST artists have one song that stands out, that has no bearing on this really. I wasn't calling Astley a one hit wonder, I was saying that how much people remember something doesn't make it a bigger hit in retrospect. Judging how big something was at the time by people's memory of it years and years later is wildly subjective at best and just really silly at worst. A lot of people don't remember the songs of certain one hit wonders, does that make them no hit wonders? So now artists that actually fit the actual description fall out of that category because you've changed the definition.

I'm not saying this YouTube guy CAN'T throw them in the heap with one hit wonders for the sake of his channel, I'm just saying it's merely inaccurate. Not in the "strictest" sense, but in what the phrase actually means. You can throw RHCP in there for all I care to try and get views. It's no skin off my nose, as I'll never watch it. But it's still inaccurate.

And I'm of the opinion that retrospectively, it does change peoples' perceptions.

Is it subjective? Hell yes, but any form of nostalgia is, since the definition of that is what people remember fondly.

If a band has hits no one remembers, well, this won't come up because no one will ask about them so by default they're excluded. If someone remembers them, then yes, they had a hit and their work can be gone into like this.

But this isn't nostalgia hit wonders. People's perceptions are a wholly inaccurate way to judge history. In retrospect,is a song in the mid-70s that was a hit not considered a hit now because most people forgot about it due to it being 40 years ago in an era where people have trouble remembering what happened two weeks ago? No, it's totally still a hit. Because that line of thinking is pretty short-sighted and not historically accurate.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Yes, it was statistically a hit.

But if no one cares, what's the point?

This is getting into "if a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around..." territory lol

[sfvega]

Apr 8, 2017 8:23:52 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Yes, it was statistically a hit.

But if no one cares, what's the point?

This is getting into "if a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around..." territory lol

Because you're taking something that is pretty defined and saying it's dependent on person to person memory to redefine it. We can get philosophical, if you want. In 200 years, none of these songs will be remembered, so by your definition, there are no hits.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Well no, things will, we have more recorded media. And there is music we know from 200 years ago. But for all the Mozarts and Beethovens we remember, there are a lot of people who were popular at the time but have been discarded by history by all but experts. So yeah, after long enough, there will be no hits.

But looking back 20-30 years, we've lived through that, and I'll define a hit as something that's had a cultural impact, rather than a number. Like, I know "Disco Duck" was successful. But most of the works of guys like Lou Reed, of Jimi Hendrix, or Public Enemy, I'd count more of their songs as hits because they've had that impact.

It's defined by person to person memory? Well kinda, I'd say more general public consensus.

I think we're just gonna keep going round and round on this. Much like a record.

Baby.

[sfvega]

Apr 8, 2017 8:40:07 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Well no, things will, we have more recorded media. And there is music we know from 200 years ago. But for all the Mozarts and Beethovens we remember, there are a lot of people who were popular at the time but have been discarded by history by all but experts. So yeah, after long enough, there will be no hits.

But looking back 20-30 years, we've lived through that, and I'll define a hit as something that's had a cultural impact, rather than a number. Like, I know "Disco Duck" was successful. But most of the works of guys like Lou Reed, of Jimi Hendrix, or Public Enemy, I'd count more of their songs as hits because they've had that impact.

It's defined by person to person memory? Well kinda, I'd say more general public consensus.

I think we're just gonna keep going round and round on this. Much like a record.

Baby.

What it comes down to is you can change history based on what you or I remember, but it's still.....not accurate.

[H-Virus]

I feel it needs to be pointed out that Todd's criterian for these videos, as he himself says at the beginning of each one, is "Bands and artists who are known for only one song", not bands and artists who only had one hit. He's done quite a few reviews where he points out that the band in question had more than one song that charted or got really popular in another country or whatever. Billy Ray Cyrus, for example, got a review because despite having several hits on his first album, only 'Achy Breaky Heart' made it onto the pop charts, the rest were only on the country charts. Hell, even his very first video of the series breaks the 'not a one-hit-wonder' rule with A-Ha, but he qualifies it because everyone rememebers 'Take On Me' but very few people remember 'The Sun Always Shines On TV'.

So yeah, One-Hit-Wonderland might be misleading, but it still sounds a lot better than One-Hit-That-People-Actually-Rememberland.

[DiBiase is Good]

Apr 7, 2017 11:24:38 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 7, 2017 11:20:24 GMT -5 King Boo said:

I also remember "I Will Come to You" being popular as well. "MMMBop" is their biggest song, but it's not their only one at all.

Well, most one hit wonders really aren't.

But ask 99% of people, they won't know another song.

Same as guys like Vanilla Ice, Men Without Hats, The Darkness etc.

Not sure I'd agree with The Darkness there. They've had two big hits (I Believe in a Thing Called Love and Christmas Time) that reached #2 in the UK charts.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 8, 2017 16:34:10 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Apr 7, 2017 11:24:38 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Well, most one hit wonders really aren't.

But ask 99% of people, they won't know another song.

Same as guys like Vanilla Ice, Men Without Hats, The Darkness etc.

Not sure I'd agree with The Darkness there. They've had two big hits (I Believe in a Thing Called Love and Christmas Time) that reached #2 in the UK charts.

Yeah but this is a talk about America where Xmas music is different, can't imagine that made any dent there. Ok, some more British ones, D:Ream, had a few hits, shocked if anyone can name any others beyond "Things Can Only Get Better", she's Danish, but Whigfield, I much prefer "Think of You" to "Saturday Night", but would it ever be mentioned?

[DiBiase is Good]

Apr 9, 2017 2:11:38 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 8, 2017 16:34:10 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Not sure I'd agree with The Darkness there. They've had two big hits (I Believe in a Thing Called Love and Christmas Time) that reached #2 in the UK charts.

Yeah but this is a talk about America where Xmas music is different, can't imagine that made any dent there. Ok, some more British ones, D:Ream, had a few hits, shocked if anyone can name any others beyond "Things Can Only Get Better", she's Danish, but Whigfield, I much prefer "Think of You" to "Saturday Night", but would it ever be mentioned?

I didn't realise this was talking exclusively about America and given your Britishness, I thought you were talking about British people.
As for D:Ream, I remember U R the Best Thing more. Mainly because although it scraped into the Top 20, it was on Now 25 and was my first exposure to them. After Things Can Only Better hit the top spot, they re-released U R The Best Thing and it was a bigger hit and included on Now 28. Which always pissed me off that they wasted a spot on the album for a (slightly remixed) song they put on a previous edition not even a year before.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 9, 2017 3:05:13 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Apr 9, 2017 2:11:38 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Yeah but this is a talk about America where Xmas music is different, can't imagine that made any dent there. Ok, some more British ones, D:Ream, had a few hits, shocked if anyone can name any others beyond "Things Can Only Get Better", she's Danish, but Whigfield, I much prefer "Think of You" to "Saturday Night", but would it ever be mentioned?

I didn't realise this was talking exclusively about America and given your Britishness, I thought you were talking about British people.
As for D:Ream, I remember U R the Best Thing more. Mainly because although it scraped into the Top 20, it was on Now 25 and was my first exposure to them. After Things Can Only Better hit the top spot, they re-released U R The Best Thing and it was a bigger hit and included on Now 28. Which always pissed me off that they wasted a spot on the album for a (slightly remixed) song they put on a previous edition not even a year before.

Well, it's about an american show so, I tried to go from that angle.

That one I didn't remember till recently when it's been cropping up in lists. Especially after 1997, everything else in their catalogue became a distant second. Before 6 months ago, I can legitimately say I've never recalled hearing it, and only my friends who are extremely into pop knew of it.

[DiBiase is Good]

Apr 9, 2017 3:23:35 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 9, 2017 3:05:13 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

I didn't realise this was talking exclusively about America and given your Britishness, I thought you were talking about British people.
As for D:Ream, I remember U R the Best Thing more. Mainly because although it scraped into the Top 20, it was on Now 25 and was my first exposure to them. After Things Can Only Better hit the top spot, they re-released U R The Best Thing and it was a bigger hit and included on Now 28. Which always pissed me off that they wasted a spot on the album for a (slightly remixed) song they put on a previous edition not even a year before.

Well, it's about an american show so, I tried to go from that angle.

That one I didn't remember till recently when it's been cropping up in lists. Especially after 1997, everything else in their catalogue became a distant second. Before 6 months ago, I can legitimately say I've never recalled hearing it, and only my friends who are extremely into pop knew of it.

I'd probably say Things can Only get Better is the better song though. It's certainly more memorable but some of that might be down to its use in a certain Political campaign (that I won't discuss further). The Brian Cox connection has certainly raised their profile (and sales) in more recent years but I always thought they were a bit bland really.
But admittedly I'm totally one of those pop music geeks who if someone asked me to name a Rick Astley single, I'd probably say Cry for Help just to be "different" and not go with the more mainstream and commercial (and infinitely more catchy) answer of Never Gonna Give you Up.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 9, 2017 3:36:41 GMT -5 DiBiase is Good said:

Apr 9, 2017 3:23:35 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Well, it's about an american show so, I tried to go from that angle.

That one I didn't remember till recently when it's been cropping up in lists. Especially after 1997, everything else in their catalogue became a distant second. Before 6 months ago, I can legitimately say I've never recalled hearing it, and only my friends who are extremely into pop knew of it.

I'd probably say Things can Only get Better is the better song though. It's certainly more memorable but some of that might be down to its use in a certain Political campaign (that I won't discuss further). The Brian Cox connection has certainly raised their profile (and sales) in more recent years but I always thought they were a bit bland really.
But admittedly I'm totally one of those pop music geeks who if someone asked me to name a Rick Astley single, I'd probably say Cry for Help just to be "different" and not go with the more mainstream and commercial (and infinitely more catchy) answer of Never Gonna Give you Up.

I'm there with you on the geekery, sometimes think I should have done better things with this brain space lol.