Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
Posts: 36,393
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jun 13, 2017 12:45:12 GMT -5
"It's not about what I want. Ever. It's about what the fans want. And I'm a pretty good listener." - Vince McMahon.
Yeah, bullshit.
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Post by toodarkmark on Jun 13, 2017 12:48:37 GMT -5
This is why he ran and will continue to run his competition out of business. As long as he is the only game in town, he can be as out of touch as he wants.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on Jun 13, 2017 14:41:40 GMT -5
Wow is right. OP doesn't seem to have a high opinion on seniors and I've seen some neglectful and condescending staff members when my grandma was in a nursing home. So yeah I get little sensitive even if it's casual. Except it's a common theme, older people being out of touch with society, and he wasn't bashing old people as a whole. I don't think anyone in a nursing home would be any more on the pulse of pop culture than Vince. Just like I don't think anyone in kindergarten would be able to. But that last sentence might be reverse agism, and you might have a younger brother in kindergarten who was called 'kid'. Side note, agism is not cool and it'snot nice for your grandma to suffer, but I don't think OP displayed any.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Jun 13, 2017 20:52:24 GMT -5
Imagine if Kirby/Lee/Ditko continued to dictate Marvel characters into the 80s? Marvel wouldn't have survived, they needed fresh blood and ideas to revitalize the brands. Claremont taking over X-Men in 1975 was what put them on the map. The interesting thing is you bring up the Attitude Era and how Vince should have left others dictate the direction of the company. The ironic part of that, is the Attitude Era was born because Vince conceded that he was out of touch and allowed talent to get themselves over. That was 20 years ago and now a man who was out of touch then is completely micromanaging the company again. In a way, there are similarities between the paths of Vince/Lee. Both enjoyed strong periods early on, then struggled with top talent departures and their products becoming stale, then another period of success when conceding that they needed to change paths and let others dictate that path. The difference is Lee stepping back from creative direction was permanent, with Vince it was not only temporary but became worse when he returned. It's easy to say that, were Marvel run like Vince runs WWE, there'd have been do Deadpool, no Venom, and no Wolverine, but it goes farther than that. When Vince hits on something that he likes, he grabs on with both hands and never lets go. Vince's Marvel comics would never have let guys like Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, or Eric Larson drawn in their distinctive styles. They'd have had to conform to the usual "house style" that had been in place forever. There'd have been no shake-ups to character rosters. Beyond even that, there's a good chance that once the Fantastic Four was a hit, that'd have been it as far as new superheroes went. "THESE are the characters that everybody wants to see!" Oh, and the idea of a teenage superhero who was like 5 foot 8, a science geek, and with powers based on something creepy? Never would have happened. To his credit, Stan Lee *did* have a pretty good grasp on pop culture. And he had no trouble allowing his characters to grow. Spider-Man went from a high school student to a college undergrad during Stan Lee's tenure, and mostly in real-time. Characters joined the book, left, formed relationships, got married, died (and, at the time, STAYED dead). Contrast that with Vince's stubborn refusal to have ANYTHING change if he likes it. I also don't think that it's necessarily Vince's age that's the problem. He's been of touch for a lot longer than he's been old. I think it's probably more of the "working 24/7, living in a bubble, surrounded by Yes Men, and richer than God" bit that's the source of the disconnect.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jun 13, 2017 21:11:09 GMT -5
Even George Lucas, another modern day Walt Disney knew when it was time to step back. If it was Vince Jar Jar would have become the focal point of the prequels after the Phantom Menace backlash just to spite the audience . Gotta make Jar Jar look strong damn it!
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Post by corndog on Jun 13, 2017 21:31:00 GMT -5
Imagine if Kirby/Lee/Ditko continued to dictate Marvel characters into the 80s? Marvel wouldn't have survived, they needed fresh blood and ideas to revitalize the brands. Claremont taking over X-Men in 1975 was what put them on the map. The interesting thing is you bring up the Attitude Era and how Vince should have left others dictate the direction of the company. The ironic part of that, is the Attitude Era was born because Vince conceded that he was out of touch and allowed talent to get themselves over. That was 20 years ago and now a man who was out of touch then is completely micromanaging the company again. In a way, there are similarities between the paths of Vince/Lee. Both enjoyed strong periods early on, then struggled with top talent departures and their products becoming stale, then another period of success when conceding that they needed to change paths and let others dictate that path. The difference is Lee stepping back from creative direction was permanent, with Vince it was not only temporary but became worse when he returned. It's easy to say that, were Marvel run like Vince runs WWE, there'd have been do Deadpool, no Venom, and no Wolverine, but it goes farther than that. When Vince hits on something that he likes, he grabs on with both hands and never lets go. Vince's Marvel comics would never have let guys like Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, or Eric Larson drawn in their distinctive styles. They'd have had to conform to the usual "house style" that had been in place forever. There'd have been no shake-ups to character rosters. Beyond even that, there's a good chance that once the Fantastic Four was a hit, that'd have been it as far as new superheroes went. "THESE are the characters that everybody wants to see!" Oh, and the idea of a teenage superhero who was like 5 foot 8, a science geek, and with powers based on something creepy? Never would have happened. To his credit, Stan Lee *did* have a pretty good grasp on pop culture. And he had no trouble allowing his characters to grow. Spider-Man went from a high school student to a college undergrad during Stan Lee's tenure, and mostly in real-time. Characters joined the book, left, formed relationships, got married, died (and, at the time, STAYED dead). Contrast that with Vince's stubborn refusal to have ANYTHING change if he likes it. I also don't think that it's necessarily Vince's age that's the problem. He's been of touch for a lot longer than he's been old. I think it's probably more of the "working 24/7, living in a bubble, surrounded by Yes Men, and richer than God" bit that's the source of the disconnect. What is really interesting when you compare the two, they accomplished the exact opposite in their industries. Stan Lee helped create a new type of superhero, that was relatable with real life problems, each flawed and struggling with life in their own different ways. Where as Vince took wrestlers, who weren't even so much as characters but just flamboyant people that represented different walks of life and turned them into superheroes and villains.
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Post by No Name is needed Bro Beans on Jun 13, 2017 22:01:25 GMT -5
vinny mac ain't ouuta touch he's got the touch he's got the power
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jun 13, 2017 22:20:58 GMT -5
Nah. That would mean Vince would be looking at those damn kids in disgust for their Cena and Reigns love.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 13, 2017 22:22:01 GMT -5
There's soooooo many angles and character arctypes they've missed out on over the years because Vince "doesn't get it" then there are some he did get but the writers didn't like and dropped and Vince still got targeted for being behind the times see Pirate Paul Granted, Pirate Paul was kinda stupid. Burchill did the best he could with it, but dude in Johnny Depp cosplay was always gonna be a lil dumb.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 13, 2017 22:24:02 GMT -5
then there are some he did get but the writers didn't like and dropped and Vince still got targeted for being behind the times see Pirate Paul Granted, Pirate Paul was kinda stupid. Burchill did the best he could with it, but dude in Johnny Depp cosplay was always gonna be a lil dumb. And getting a big damn knee injury during that run didn't help either, killing it before he was able to cement any long-term overness.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jun 13, 2017 22:24:29 GMT -5
then there are some he did get but the writers didn't like and dropped and Vince still got targeted for being behind the times see Pirate Paul Granted, Pirate Paul was kinda stupid. Burchill did the best he could with it, but dude in Johnny Depp cosplay was always gonna be a lil dumb. LIES IT WAS AWESOME! It was at least over for a bit too... granted he then went down with a knee injury that took him out for a year so honestly dropping it was probably for the best.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 13, 2017 22:26:24 GMT -5
I just was not a fan. I think Burchill coulda gone places, but the Davey Jones Locker probably shouldn't have been one.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 14, 2017 12:56:33 GMT -5
I will give Vince a lot of credit for the Rock and Wrestling era, he saw how the media landscape was shifting, pop culture too, and he rode that wave rather than fighting against it as Verne and the assorted NWA territories did, he let Hulk be Hulk and milked every penny he could... Unfortunately, he became complacent and kept going to the Hulk Hogan well rather than really getting 100% behind warrior, and kept on trying to make the next Hulk Hogan well into the 90s as his company burned. He got lucky/desperate enough to listen to outsiders in the latter part of the decade, then rapidly became complacent, thinking everything that worked was because of him, and that winning by default meant he pooped solid gold and the product has suffered ever since.
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