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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Aug 3, 2017 8:48:17 GMT -5
Undertaker has been, and always will be, my favorite wrestler. That.. was sad. I don't pity him, because I know he did it willingly, and I'm sure Vince paid him handsomely, but.. still. I think he keeps coming back because the paydays are too lucrative, and he's loyal to Vince. I hope Vince lets that match be it, because as sad as it was, you couldn't have scripted a more realistic final match. Ditto. I started watching wrestling right around the time he debuted as The Undertaker, and he quickly became my childhood favorite. Keep in mind, I'm Canadian born and raised, and in the 90s, it was almost sacrilege to say that anyone other than Bret Hart was your favorite wrestler. But in my eyes, 'Taker was the man. That being said, that man has worked through more injuries and more pain than most of us will probably ever know. The human body isn't made to take that level of punishment consistently over that period of time, and the toll is very real. As sad as I am to see him and that last vestige of my childhood go, no one can say he hasn't more than earned a happy retirement.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Aug 3, 2017 8:50:51 GMT -5
Honestly the thing is Taker really probably should've just retired after Mania 25. He had some great matches after that but after his comeback later on in 2009 he was never the same. I think the "end of an Era" match should have been "it" for Taker. Shawn was already retired, HHH was winding down and Taker could still mostly go. It was the perfect ending for three guys who had done so much in and for this business.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 3, 2017 9:18:38 GMT -5
While some people say they're glad Shawn quit when he did, I still think he could have had great matches with guys on the roster currently, even currently. Shawn vs Styles would sell out Mania by itself...
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Post by Baby, it’s Jes outside on Aug 3, 2017 10:23:38 GMT -5
It was heartbreaking by design. Yes, he did have notable physical problems going into the match...but quite a bit of it was played up because the story of the match was that he was broken down and could not go anymore. There was a mixture of real life and selling going on. Also, I am convinced that the botched tombstone reversal spot is totally Reign's fault. Reigns can go in the ring, but every time I've seen that spot it seems pretty clear to me that he's the one who made the mistake. The Big Dawg just didn't have the upper body strength to pull it off. Cena, Brock, Braun, even Cesaro could have done it. But no,it's Roman's yard now.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 3, 2017 11:10:39 GMT -5
While some people say they're glad Shawn quit when he did, I still think he could have had great matches with guys on the roster currently, even currently. Shawn vs Styles would sell out Mania by itself... Would it though? Its been pretty well established that ticket buyers don't really give a damn about match quality. Shane vs Taker spiked sales after all. Styles isnt really a big star and Michaels was never a huge draw. Itd be cool to see but its not a Rock vs Cena type of thing. It was heartbreaking by design. Yes, he did have notable physical problems going into the match...but quite a bit of it was played up because the story of the match was that he was broken down and could not go anymore. There was a mixture of real life and selling going on. Also, I am convinced that the botched tombstone reversal spot is totally Reign's fault. Reigns can go in the ring, but every time I've seen that spot it seems pretty clear to me that he's the one who made the mistake. The Big Dawg just didn't have the upper body strength to pull it off. Cena, Brock, Braun, even Cesaro could have done it. But no,it's Roman's yard now. Roman had barely hit his feet when Taker decided to jump up waaaay too early. The whole thing was off balance but Taker's timing and ability to push off was what ruined the spot. Its like Flair trying to take the Last Ride at Mania 18.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 3, 2017 11:16:02 GMT -5
While some people say they're glad Shawn quit when he did, I still think he could have had great matches with guys on the roster currently, even currently. Shawn vs Styles would sell out Mania by itself... Would it though? Its been pretty well established that ticket buyers don't really give a damn about match quality. Shane vs Taker spiked sales after all. Styles isnt really a big star and Michaels was never a huge draw. Itd be cool to see but its not a Rock vs Cena type of thing. Ok, AJ Styles is one of the biggest draws in WWE currently, gets the reactions as such, and is billed as such. And Shawn Micheals has literally been named "Mr. WrestleMania". Stating that like it's a fact is really ridiculous. If you really don't think Shawn Michaels having one more match against someone who many people think is one of the best wrestlers in the world and one of the best Wrestlers this Era... well feel free to think that way.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 3, 2017 11:50:06 GMT -5
Would it though? Its been pretty well established that ticket buyers don't really give a damn about match quality. Shane vs Taker spiked sales after all. Styles isnt really a big star and Michaels was never a huge draw. Itd be cool to see but its not a Rock vs Cena type of thing. Ok, AJ Styles is one of the biggest draws in WWE currently, gets the reactions as such, and is billed as such. And Shawn Micheals has literally been named "Mr. WrestleMania". Stating that like it's a fact is really ridiculous. If you really don't think Shawn Michaels having one more match against someone who many people think is one of the best wrestlers in the world and one of the best Wrestlers this Era... well feel free to think that way. Listen. I love both guys to death and the match would be pretty anticipated. But saying it would sell out a 70 thousand plus stadium on its own is waaaay too much. AJ is popular but he's still below Reigns, Cena, Lesnar and whatever other old guy they cart out. Saying he gets big pops doesnt really mean he's Stone Cold Steve Austin turning the company around business wise.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 3, 2017 11:57:20 GMT -5
Ok, AJ Styles is one of the biggest draws in WWE currently, gets the reactions as such, and is billed as such. And Shawn Micheals has literally been named "Mr. WrestleMania". Stating that like it's a fact is really ridiculous. If you really don't think Shawn Michaels having one more match against someone who many people think is one of the best wrestlers in the world and one of the best Wrestlers this Era... well feel free to think that way. Listen. I love both guys to death and the match would be pretty anticipated. But saying it would sell out a 70 thousand plus stadium on its own is waaaay too much. AJ is popular but he's still below Reigns, Cena, Lesnar and whatever other old guy they cart out. Saying he gets big pops doesnt really mean he's Stone Cold Steve Austin turning the company around business wise. Ok that was an oversell on my part to how much I'd probably want to see the match. Would it certainly help though? Yeah. I think it'd be one of the best matches you could put on a Mania Card. And I think it'd get a lot of tickets sold to see Mr. WrestleMania take on the world traveled veteran. And no one is turning WWE around business wise, not Reigns, not Cena, not Lesnar, if the business numbers are to go by anything
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Aug 3, 2017 13:32:57 GMT -5
Around the time of the vs punk rumours I really wanted another Austin match. On retospect I'm glad he left it all in the ring with the rock at wm19.
Also which Taker looked more broken down? Vs Lesnar at Mania 30 or vs Roman this year?
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Post by -Lithium- on Aug 3, 2017 15:01:32 GMT -5
Honestly the thing is Taker really probably should've just retired after Mania 25. He had some great matches after that but after his comeback later on in 2009 he was never the same. Undertaker was great till 2010, IMO. Though his best in ring years will always be 2006-09. It's amazing how much he stepped it up and such a late stage.
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 3, 2017 15:19:28 GMT -5
Honestly, nobody really. Age happens, it's nothing to be ashamed of. If you can't go anymore, don't.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 3, 2017 15:21:30 GMT -5
Around the time of the vs punk rumours I really wanted another Austin match. On retospect I'm glad he left it all in the ring with the rock at wm19. Also which Taker looked more broken down? Vs Lesnar at Mania 30 or vs Roman this year? Roman for sure. Lesnar you have the concussion as an excuse atleast.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 3, 2017 15:29:32 GMT -5
Ok, AJ Styles is one of the biggest draws in WWE currently, gets the reactions as such, and is billed as such. And Shawn Micheals has literally been named "Mr. WrestleMania". Stating that like it's a fact is really ridiculous. If you really don't think Shawn Michaels having one more match against someone who many people think is one of the best wrestlers in the world and one of the best Wrestlers this Era... well feel free to think that way. Listen. I love both guys to death and the match would be pretty anticipated. But saying it would sell out a 70 thousand plus stadium on its own is waaaay too much. AJ is popular but he's still below Reigns, Cena, Lesnar and whatever other old guy they cart out. Saying he gets big pops doesnt really mean he's Stone Cold Steve Austin turning the company around business wise. Real shit. HBK is my all time favorite. That's mah big homie. Dude was never ever EVER a big draw. That's the reality of the situation. And AJ is as much of a draw as anybody on the current roster...as in not at all, lmao. Like, I don't know why people get all pissy about this. I remember this same thing happened when people pointed out that Kurt Angle was never much of a draw and that comedy shit he did early on in his career essentially killed him as being the reliable A-side of a card. It's not an insult, very few guys in this business are real draws on a major scale. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Now, if they did this match as a main event, would it do good live ticket sales? Sure...because it's Wrestlemania and it's 2017 and people go to Mania because it's f***ing Mania with no real regard for the card. But yeah, AJ vs. Shawn, on paper, isn't a particularly high drawing match, even if it would be fantastic. And honestly, I don't even know why I talk about "draws" on this board anymore because the wrestling game is so f***ed up, the concept of a draw has become really muddled.
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segaz
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Post by segaz on Aug 3, 2017 17:12:32 GMT -5
While some people say they're glad Shawn quit when he did, I still think he could have had great matches with guys on the roster currently, even currently. Shawn vs Styles would sell out Mania by itself... The thing is, do you go until you can't, or do you go while you still can?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 3, 2017 18:26:49 GMT -5
I don't have to imagine. Mick Foley came back for a couple of killer runs in '03/'04 and to a lesser extent '06.
Then he had a very mediocre main event run in 2007 where he existed to job in a five-way so that the full-timers could get protected.
Then he went to TNA, where he had a decent and kind of underrated run as an authority figure and surprising world champion, which I enjoyed a lot but acknowledge made no sense occurring in 2009.
And then...
And then...
And then...
I believe that his last match ever was the 2012 Royal Rumble, which in a twist of fate bordering on the insane was a Rumble so lacking in star power that Mick got more eliminations than in any other Rumble he'd been in, despite not even being able to even run to the ring.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 3, 2017 18:40:25 GMT -5
I don't have to imagine. Mick Foley came back for a couple of killer runs in '03/'04 and to a lesser extent '06. Then he had a very mediocre main event run in 2007 where he existed to job in a five-way so that the full-timers could get protected. Then he went to TNA, where he had a decent and kind of underrated run as an authority figure and surprising world champion, which I enjoyed a lot but acknowledge made no sense occurring in 2009. And then... And then... And then... I believe that his last match ever was the 2012 Royal Rumble, which in a twist of fate bordering on the insane was a Rumble so lacking in star power that Mick got more eliminations than in any other Rumble he'd been in, despite not even being able to even run to the ring. and then he came back as an authority figure and visibly struggled to remember his lines as the concussions obviously took their toll on him.
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Post by Clint Bobski on Aug 4, 2017 17:11:40 GMT -5
I can't really call myself a fan, but I appreciate everything he's given to dis business and it'd be sad to see a broken down Big Show. This. He gets a lot of shit from people, but Show has done what was needed in terms of putting people over and his work for the company. Has never complained of the ridiculous gimmicks given to him, and has got the best out of Sheamus and Del Rio when he couldn't have been expected to. Seeing him broken down and jobber out wouldn't be right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2017 17:28:07 GMT -5
Then he had a very mediocre main event run in 2007 where he existed to job in a five-way so that the full-timers could get protected. To this day it bugs the shit out of me that Lashley counted for that match but Sandman didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2017 17:36:23 GMT -5
Listen. I love both guys to death and the match would be pretty anticipated. But saying it would sell out a 70 thousand plus stadium on its own is waaaay too much. AJ is popular but he's still below Reigns, Cena, Lesnar and whatever other old guy they cart out. Saying he gets big pops doesnt really mean he's Stone Cold Steve Austin turning the company around business wise. Real shit. HBK is my all time favorite. That's mah big homie. Dude was never ever EVER a big draw. That's the reality of the situation. And AJ is as much of a draw as anybody on the current roster...as in not at all, lmao. Like, I don't know why people get all pissy about this. I remember this same thing happened when people pointed out that Kurt Angle was never much of a draw and that comedy shit he did early on in his career essentially killed him as being the reliable A-side of a card. It's not an insult, very few guys in this business are real draws on a major scale. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Now, if they did this match as a main event, would it do good live ticket sales? Sure...because it's Wrestlemania and it's 2017 and people go to Mania because it's f***ing Mania with no real regard for the card. But yeah, AJ vs. Shawn, on paper, isn't a particularly high drawing match, even if it would be fantastic. And honestly, I don't even know why I talk about "draws" on this board anymore because the wrestling game is so f***ed up, the concept of a draw has become really muddled. Yeah. Anytime you say HBK or Styles aren't amazing draws dudes be ready to get out the pitchforks. You know it's real when multiple WWE documentaries say he wasn't pushing those sales. That's pretty much one of 1996's vocal points. HBK became champion, wasn't doing shit, NWO formed in WCW and business picked up.
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Post by -Lithium- on Aug 4, 2017 18:42:55 GMT -5
Listen. I love both guys to death and the match would be pretty anticipated. But saying it would sell out a 70 thousand plus stadium on its own is waaaay too much. AJ is popular but he's still below Reigns, Cena, Lesnar and whatever other old guy they cart out. Saying he gets big pops doesnt really mean he's Stone Cold Steve Austin turning the company around business wise. Real shit. HBK is my all time favorite. That's mah big homie. Dude was never ever EVER a big draw. That's the reality of the situation. And AJ is as much of a draw as anybody on the current roster...as in not at all, lmao. Like, I don't know why people get all pissy about this. I remember this same thing happened when people pointed out that Kurt Angle was never much of a draw and that comedy shit he did early on in his career essentially killed him as being the reliable A-side of a card. It's not an insult, very few guys in this business are real draws on a major scale. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Now, if they did this match as a main event, would it do good live ticket sales? Sure...because it's Wrestlemania and it's 2017 and people go to Mania because it's f***ing Mania with no real regard for the card. But yeah, AJ vs. Shawn, on paper, isn't a particularly high drawing match, even if it would be fantastic. And honestly, I don't even know why I talk about "draws" on this board anymore because the wrestling game is so f***ed up, the concept of a draw has become really muddled. I have no problem with people saying someone wasn't like a ratings smash or draw huge money. I have a problem when these stupid idiots who like wait for the IWC to like someone and only then seem to form their opinion on that guy, and it's always negative. Anytime I say I say I'd love for the Cena/Punk Feb 2013 RAW match to main event over Rock/Cena, someone has to come in with "OH STUPID SMARK WRESTLINGS MONEY THATS WHAT MATTERS MONEY PUNK NOT DRAW ROCK IS!1!!". I sincerely, and I mean SINCERELY could not care less. I'm stating my opinion. I'm stating what I would have liked to watch. You don't stand outside movie theaters showing a more arty film and scream at the people coming out that they should go see whatever mindless action movie, so why do it with wrestling? Another comparison is that there was an episode of Breaking Bad in Season 1 that got less than a million viewers. It doesn't change the fact that it's a much better episode than any random, dime a dozen episode of Law and Order...
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