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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Nov 11, 2017 1:27:23 GMT -5
So the guy who they ostensibly wanted to win BFA didn't.... is there a reason they never really tried to do anything with the guy who did? Even if the set up was awful, Gunn came out of the tournament with legitimate tough guy cred. Could have become an upper miscarder, if he carried the role well maybe an occasional main eventer (they gave Billy Gunn a shot). Instead he got his ass whipped against a much more experienced shoot fighter on the company's biggest stage, and then WWE said "see ya". Him winning really sting that bad?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 11, 2017 1:39:51 GMT -5
Apparently Vince wanted to turn Bart into a real boxer that could be both in wwe and venture into boxing, so that's why they took him off tv. They had him train for months for wrestlemania.
Unfortunately for Bart, they had him face a more experienced boxer in Butterbean. Butterbean even offered to do business and make Bart look good, Vince didn't know who Butterbean was and really thought Bart could take him out so he declined. Bean then f***ed him up in seconds. Vince doesn't really watches tv or knows anything other than the wwe, he didn't know Butterbean had been in like 50 boxing matches before fighting Bart.
Bart Gunn left the company a short time after. Fortunately for him he got a run in Japan because he broke the myth of Dr Death Steve Williams, Doc was worshipped in Japan so Bart by knocking him out got instant credibility.
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Post by thegame415 on Nov 11, 2017 1:46:34 GMT -5
To be fair, would you take a guy name Butterbean legit?
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Post by -Lithium- on Nov 11, 2017 1:57:38 GMT -5
Just wanted to add that not a chance in hell they'd waste 98 Stone Cold on Dr Death. No one gave a shit about him prior to this, and no one would have given a shit about him if he won. Same way no one gave a f*** about Bart Gunn once he won. This was the Monday Night Wars. You don't just hand out feuds to people who aren't massively over cause they have a friend in management and did something (that no one in the then current day audience knows about) in another fed years prior.
What feud is being cut short for Austin - Williams? Highway to Hell? Kane-Taker-Austin? The DEADLY Game tournament? Is shitty ass Dr Death going to main event St Valentines Day Massacre?
This was before Vince had 30 shitty Hollywood writers to try and convince himself he wasn't the carny that he is, so shit wasn't just being thrown against the wall to see what sticks. Also, like I said this was during the peak of the MNW. Not one week could be wasted to give some nobody a main event against the biggest name in the company as a favor to an executive. Let alone an actual program. The only possible way would be if Dr Death was to get majorly over, and that was never ever going to happen.
I don't know why this dumb supposed idea annoys me so much, but it does. I think cause its just pure delusion...
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Post by BJ Sturgeon on Nov 11, 2017 4:45:44 GMT -5
Apparently Vince wanted to turn Bart into a real boxer that could be both in wwe and venture into boxing, so that's why they took him off tv. They had him train for months for wrestlemania. Unfortunately for Bart, they had him face a more experienced boxer in Butterbean. Butterbean even offered to do business and make Bart look good, Vince didn't know who Butterbean was and really thought Bart could take him out so he declined. Bean then f***ed him up in seconds. Vince doesn't really watches tv or knows anything other than the wwe, he didn't know Butterbean had been in like 50 boxing matches before fighting Bart. Bart Gunn left the company a short time after. Fortunately for him he got a run in Japan because he broke the myth of Dr Death Steve Williams, Doc was worshipped in Japan so Bart by knocking him out got instant credibility. If Vince didn't know who Butterbean was, then why have him on the show to begin with? "Haha, he's fat and bald and he's boxing. That's funny."
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Post by Baby, it’s Jes outside on Nov 11, 2017 4:49:04 GMT -5
Apparently Vince wanted to turn Bart into a real boxer that could be both in wwe and venture into boxing, so that's why they took him off tv. They had him train for months for wrestlemania. Unfortunately for Bart, they had him face a more experienced boxer in Butterbean. Butterbean even offered to do business and make Bart look good, Vince didn't know who Butterbean was and really thought Bart could take him out so he declined. Bean then f***ed him up in seconds. Vince doesn't really watches tv or knows anything other than the wwe, he didn't know Butterbean had been in like 50 boxing matches before fighting Bart. Bart Gunn left the company a short time after. Fortunately for him he got a run in Japan because he broke the myth of Dr Death Steve Williams, Doc was worshipped in Japan so Bart by knocking him out got instant credibility. If Vince didn't know who Butterbean was, then why have him on the show to begin with? "Haha, he's fat and bald and he's boxing. That's funny." This is Vince we're talking about. So yeah.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Nov 11, 2017 12:46:04 GMT -5
Butterbean had already fought Marc Mero at DX In Your House in 1997. Im pretty sure Vince knew who he was.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 11, 2017 13:05:43 GMT -5
Apparently Vince wanted to turn Bart into a real boxer that could be both in wwe and venture into boxing, so that's why they took him off tv. They had him train for months for wrestlemania. Unfortunately for Bart, they had him face a more experienced boxer in Butterbean. Butterbean even offered to do business and make Bart look good, Vince didn't know who Butterbean was and really thought Bart could take him out so he declined. Bean then f***ed him up in seconds. Vince doesn't really watches tv or knows anything other than the wwe, he didn't know Butterbean had been in like 50 boxing matches before fighting Bart. Bart Gunn left the company a short time after. Fortunately for him he got a run in Japan because he broke the myth of Dr Death Steve Williams, Doc was worshipped in Japan so Bart by knocking him out got instant credibility. If Vince didn't know who Butterbean was, then why have him on the show to begin with? "Haha, he's fat and bald and he's boxing. That's funny." According to Bruce Prichard, Vince believed the hype of Bart Gunn and he seriously thought that Bart with only a few months of training was ready against a real boxer with years and years of experience. Some people just fall for the hype and don't think rationally, like the time people believed CM Punk could win against a younger and more experienced opponent.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 11, 2017 14:26:11 GMT -5
1. I suspect the whole story of a Dr Death/Austin feud was mainly because Jim Ross was a mark for Dr Death and probably tried to pitch it
2. They probably thought they could put Bart Gunn against Buttebean with minimal training because no one gave Bart Gunn odds of going anywhere in that tournament, and when he turned out to be a KO artist it took everyone by surprise and they thought they had a super badass on their hands
3. That hardcore title march between Bart Gunn and Bob Holly where they pelted each other with fruit is actually one of my fave hardcore matches ever. Especially when Dr Death interferes in that stupid mask and then just walks off like “Ah eff it!”
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Nov 11, 2017 22:41:55 GMT -5
If Vince didn't know who Butterbean was, then why have him on the show to begin with? "Haha, he's fat and bald and he's boxing. That's funny." This is Vince we're talking about. So yeah. Vince McMahon ruins everything. #VinceOutOfTouchMcMahon
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 12, 2017 0:36:02 GMT -5
Apparently Vince wanted to turn Bart into a real boxer that could be both in wwe and venture into boxing, so that's why they took him off tv. They had him train for months for wrestlemania. Unfortunately for Bart, they had him face a more experienced boxer in Butterbean. Butterbean even offered to do business and make Bart look good, Vince didn't know who Butterbean was and really thought Bart could take him out so he declined. Bean then f***ed him up in seconds. Vince doesn't really watches tv or knows anything other than the wwe, he didn't know Butterbean had been in like 50 boxing matches before fighting Bart. Bart Gunn left the company a short time after. Fortunately for him he got a run in Japan because he broke the myth of Dr Death Steve Williams, Doc was worshipped in Japan so Bart by knocking him out got instant credibility. I'm sure the way Vince had in mind setting Bart Gunn loose onto the boxing world involved WWE at the forefront of it as far as managing him and promoting him, really getting Vince into the world of boxing a little bit the same way he ended up getting into Football shortly thereafter. And much like when he tried to get into football, he really didn't know much at all about boxing and got rocked because of it. It's such typical, classic Vince, but at least this time around it bit him in the ass quickly and not with millions in losses.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 12, 2017 0:44:32 GMT -5
Because it's Bart Gunn, who has all the charisma of Bart Gunn.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Nov 12, 2017 0:50:41 GMT -5
Hell Bart has even said if they wanted Dr Death to win so bad he would have done the job
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 12, 2017 0:52:37 GMT -5
Also from all accounts Doctor Death wasn't who "they wanted to win" from all accounts... unless by they you mean JR.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Nov 12, 2017 0:59:32 GMT -5
Was a dumb idea from day 1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 1:12:46 GMT -5
I love that they took Severn out because he was going to kick too much ass.
Another brilliant Russo concept. Kind of surprised this didn’t resurface in WCW
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Nov 12, 2017 7:05:48 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a revolt against it from the locker room. It wasn't as though Vince could afford a walkout in the middle of the Monday Night Wars. Guys were injured from this stunt; in Dr. Death's case, it marked his swansong as a marketable competitor. And, in the end, it really hurt WWE's reputation compared to the likes of UFC and the Toughman Competition.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 12, 2017 17:13:38 GMT -5
I love that they took Severn out because he was going to kick too much ass. Another brilliant Russo concept. Kind of surprised this didn’t resurface in WCW Hardcore Holly said the same thing about Steve Blackman being involved too.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 12, 2017 17:22:03 GMT -5
Was a dumb idea from day 1 I mean it came from Vince Russo... it being a dumb idea kinda goes without saying. Rather silly to punish a top wrestler by having him lose to an outsider. Oh wait, WWE does that shit all the time. It wasn't meant to be a punishment.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 12, 2017 17:55:01 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a revolt against it from the locker room. It wasn't as though Vince could afford a walkout in the middle of the Monday Night Wars. Guys were injured from this stunt; in Dr. Death's case, it marked his swansong as a marketable competitor. And, in the end, it really hurt WWE's reputation compared to the likes of UFC and the Toughman Competition. There wasn't a revolt because it was entirely optional, and people were paid for agreeing to do it. It was mostly undercarders looking for their chance at a push and TV time. If they'd told Austin that he was in this, it would have been a different story.
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