Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 14, 2017 8:22:31 GMT -5
Penta 0M v. Rey Mysterio (even as broken down as he is) is probably the biggest drawing Lucha match they could book in a neutral US market.
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domrep
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Post by domrep on Dec 14, 2017 15:20:46 GMT -5
In my mind, the keys to success for this are: 1. A low general admission ticket price, to make it affordable to all wrestling fans in the city it takes place. If the goal is the most fans in the building as possible, rather than a specific dollar amount, cheap G.A. is a necessity. Like ten bucks. Cheap enough for big wrestling fans to potentially bring their friends who aren't necessarily big fans. 2. Kenny Omega on the show. 3. CM Punk on the show. 4. Bryan Danielson on the show. 5. Booking some lucha names, at least for one big lucha match on the show, to draw that audience. Some of the biggest attended shows in recent years were those that drew from the lucha audience. That element alone could mean an extra 1,000+ tickets sold in a major market with a large hispanic population. What are the other key factors to potentially reaching that 10,000 goal? The problem is two fold: if you go cheap on the tickets, you probably can't afford Omega, Punk, Danielson unless they take a huge discount. I reckon Punk would be 20K alone.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 14, 2017 15:32:05 GMT -5
Do they really need Punk? I actually doubt that they would need him to be there in order to draw a good crowd.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 14, 2017 16:18:59 GMT -5
Do they really need Punk? I actually doubt that they would need him to be there in order to draw a good crowd. Punks UFC debacle showed the man draws eyes.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 14, 2017 16:27:01 GMT -5
I think if anybody can do it, it's ROH. It could be an event that could be there Wrestlemania if you will. It would need to be a crossover event with NJPW and that's fine. I think they could pull it off with the right card and promoting of the show. The right location as well.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 14, 2017 17:48:44 GMT -5
Do they really need Punk? I actually doubt that they would need him to be there in order to draw a good crowd. Punks UFC debacle showed the man draws eyes. Right, he is a draw but that doesn't mean they would need him in order to draw 10,000.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 0:19:31 GMT -5
Punks UFC debacle showed the man draws eyes. Right, he is a draw but that doesn't mean they would need him in order to draw 10,000. Their goal is to break 10,000, not just do draw a respectable number. And yes, I would say they do need him to draw 10,000. Consider the fact that TNA (with Hogan, Angle, Sting, etc.) never drew over 7,500 people in their history, with essentially a weekly 2 hour infommercial about their product on Spike TV for years, and ROH hasn't either, at any point in their history, same with ECW.... to draw 10,000 with zero television behind you is not something that can be easily done. To run in Chicago with CM Punk on the card sells literally thousands more tickets than if he weren't on the show.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 15, 2017 1:52:52 GMT -5
Right, he is a draw but that doesn't mean they would need him in order to draw 10,000. Their goal is to break 10,000, not just do draw a respectable number. And yes, I would say they do need him to draw 10,000. Consider the fact that TNA (with Hogan, Angle, Sting, etc.) never drew over 7,500 people in their history, with essentially a weekly 2 hour infommercial about their product on Spike TV for years, and ROH hasn't either, at any point in their history, same with ECW.... to draw 10,000 with zero television behind you is not something that can be easily done. To run in Chicago with CM Punk on the card sells literally thousands more tickets than if he weren't on the show. Yeah f***ing TNA had Kurt Angle straight out of a hot wwe run in 2006 and they didn't draw shit. Same thing with Sting and other stars. ECW actually had a national tv deal with TNN and ppvs and they never drew ten thousand people. I fear Cody and the Bucks are over their head and will lose a lot of money. Regarding CM Punk, he already made it clear that he hates wrestling. According to the guy he almost died because of that staph infection that went untreated. He also said in his documentary that he's a goal oriented person, he already main evented and drew millions on the biggest platform for wrestling. Why would he lower himself by working Cody Rhodes's dingy independent show? Bryan Danielson you could probably get because he just wants to wrestle anywhere but Punk just don't give a f*** anymore, I believe him when he said that he hates wrestling.
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Johnny Flamingo
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Dec 15, 2017 6:36:17 GMT -5
Yeah f***ing TNA had Kurt Angle straight out of a hot wwe run in 2006 and they didn't draw shit. Same thing with Sting and other stars. It has been well documented that TNA is quite horrible at marketing. No matter who you are and what wrestlers to book you need to advertise to draw people. Won't be easy but if they market this right then they will have a show. Can't compare this to ECW as it is a much different era. One advantage Cody and the Young Bucks have over ECW is soccial media. Will be much easier for them to advertise and get the word out about the show than it was for ECW to get their name out. I think the ROH show in New Orleans this year will be a good gauge at how well they realistcally draw. Show this year is in a 9,000 seat arena.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 15, 2017 9:06:36 GMT -5
Yeah f***ing TNA had Kurt Angle straight out of a hot wwe run in 2006 and they didn't draw shit. Same thing with Sting and other stars. It has been well documented that TNA is quite horrible at marketing. No matter who you are and what wrestlers to book you need to advertise to draw people. Won't be easy but if they market this right then they will have a show. Can't compare this to ECW as it is a much different era. One advantage Cody and the Young Bucks have over ECW is soccial media. Will be much easier for them to advertise and get the word out about the show than it was for ECW to get their name out. I think the ROH show in New Orleans this year will be a good gauge at how well they realistcally draw. Show this year is in a 9,000 seat arena. I think you're overestimating social media, yeah Facebook and twitter help if you want to sell some shirts but not to mobilize the IWC crowd to such that great of a level. One problem with ROH drawing that amount of people, the smarks aren't exclusively ROH fans, ROH will have to compete with the other indy shows in town. I can't point to a shoot interview or book about how an Indy show can draw that big of a crowd in the U.S, because it's never been done before. Not even when wrestling was mainstream an Indy ever drew so many people, and let's face it wrestling is less popular and more of a niche product nowadays. Then the Indy product is a niche of a niche. Cody and the Bucks pull this off then they become millionaires, they fail then Cody will have to beg for his job back in the wwe to make ends meet and the Bucks will accept a wwe deal to support their families.
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Post by eJm on Dec 15, 2017 9:18:50 GMT -5
Cody and the Bucks pull this off then they become millionaires, they fail then Cody will have to beg for his job back in the wwe to make ends meet and the Bucks will accept a wwe deal to support their families. A) How much money do you think they are actually putting into this thing since it seems to be in cooperation with each other? Considering that some 10,000 seat venues are cheaper to get than smaller venues, it's not like they're going to be hurling a tonne of money into it? B) The BET is to sell 10,000 with him and Meltzer. For them to make their money back, they don't even NEED to have 10,000 attend at all. 4,000 would probably overdo it to some extent. It's one of the reasons PROGRESS are probably going to do really well with Wembley Arena in September. They've already sold out the front rows and block and the seat blocks they have to sell will probably be mostly sold out by August. That can seat 10,000 and they've blocked off at least a 1/3rd of the venue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 9:37:10 GMT -5
They won't lose money. All they have to do is budget the show to break even at like 2,000 tickets sold, and they're good. Venue rent is the biggest expense of all. Paying their friends is... paying their friends. They'll all probably agree to work for a percentage of whatever the gate ends up being.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 15, 2017 9:38:03 GMT -5
Cody and the Bucks pull this off then they become millionaires, they fail then Cody will have to beg for his job back in the wwe to make ends meet and the Bucks will accept a wwe deal to support their families. A) How much money do you think they are actually putting into this thing since it seems to be in cooperation with each other? Considering that some 10,000 seat venues are cheaper to get than smaller venues, it's not like they're going to be hurling a tonne of money into it? B) The BET is to sell 10,000 with him and Meltzer. For them to make their money back, they don't even NEED to have 10,000 attend at all. 4,000 would probably overdo it to some extent. It's one of the reasons PROGRESS are probably going to do really well with Wembley Arena in September. They've already sold out the front rows and block and the seat blocks they have to sell will probably be mostly sold out by August. That can seat 10,000 and they've blocked off at least a 1/3rd of the venue. Progress already has an identity and they developed their own fan base, the England market is also stronger, f*** even tna managed to draw houses over there. Progress is already a name, we don't know anything about what Cody wants to do or the name of their company. The arena is just part of the expenses. They would also need insurance and paying guys who would attract ten thousand people and they are expensive, f*** Rey Mysterio charges like twenty grand for a match, Danielson won't be working for free also if he's available.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 15, 2017 9:39:18 GMT -5
They won't lose money. All they have to do is budget the show to break even at like 2,000 tickets sold, and they're good. Venue rent is the biggest expense of all. Paying their friends is... paying their friends. They'll all probably agree to work for a percentage of whatever the gate ends up being. There aren't any friends in wrestling specially when there's money involved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 9:43:51 GMT -5
They won't lose money. All they have to do is budget the show to break even at like 2,000 tickets sold, and they're good. Venue rent is the biggest expense of all. Paying their friends is... paying their friends. They'll all probably agree to work for a percentage of whatever the gate ends up being. There aren't any friends in wrestling specially when there's money involved. Ridiculous. It's what has made PWG a successful business for over a decade. Friends working for each other, at friend rates.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 15, 2017 9:46:11 GMT -5
There aren't any friends in wrestling specially when there's money involved. Ridiculous. It's what has made PWG a successful business for over a decade. Friends working for each other, at friend rates. If that was true then Super Dragon wouldn't need to keep raising the ticket prices then.
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Post by eJm on Dec 15, 2017 9:47:39 GMT -5
A) How much money do you think they are actually putting into this thing since it seems to be in cooperation with each other? Considering that some 10,000 seat venues are cheaper to get than smaller venues, it's not like they're going to be hurling a tonne of money into it? B) The BET is to sell 10,000 with him and Meltzer. For them to make their money back, they don't even NEED to have 10,000 attend at all. 4,000 would probably overdo it to some extent. It's one of the reasons PROGRESS are probably going to do really well with Wembley Arena in September. They've already sold out the front rows and block and the seat blocks they have to sell will probably be mostly sold out by August. That can seat 10,000 and they've blocked off at least a 1/3rd of the venue. Progress already has an identity and they developed their own fan base, the England market is also stronger, f*** even tna managed to draw houses over there. Progress is already a name, we don't know anything about what Cody wants to do or the name of their company. The arena is just part of the expenses. They would also need insurance and paying guys who would attract ten thousand people and they are expensive, f*** Rey Mysterio charges like twenty grand for a match, Danielson won't be working for free also if he's available. So has Bullet Club. I love Progress as much as the next guy but Progress aren't selling t-shirts in mainstream stores or have at least 3 global stars under their roster that haven't been with WWE in a half minute. Hell, I'd argue Bullet Club's a bigger name not just for the people that have attached to it but the fact that shows have sold out off of them regardless of promotion. Again, none of us know what plans they have for paying guys or getting that all set up. I'd argue that a lot of that stuff's been talked about already even before the announcement was put down because, at least going by Being the Elite, I'd say most of the Bullet Club, Joey Ryan and Flip Gordon are locks. I'm not saying those factors aren't counting for that but at the same time, the Young Bucks seem like really smart guys alone so I don't think they're going into this with unrealistic expectations.
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Post by eJm on Dec 15, 2017 9:49:29 GMT -5
Ridiculous. It's what has made PWG a successful business for over a decade. Friends working for each other, at friend rates. If that was true then Super Dragon wouldn't need to keep raising the ticket prices then. I'd say that was a lot more to do with the fact that during the bigger shows, you'd have actual genuine Hollywood celebrities come to events and people in the mainstream press were talking about it as a hidden So Cal gem so of course someone would look at that and go "Hey, we're becoming more attractive, let's raise ticket prices and see how it goes". Thus far, it's worked out for them.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 45,789
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 15, 2017 10:05:31 GMT -5
If that was true then Super Dragon wouldn't need to keep raising the ticket prices then. I'd say that was a lot more to do with the fact that during the bigger shows, you'd have actual genuine Hollywood celebrities come to events and people in the mainstream press were talking about it as a hidden So Cal gem so of course someone would look at that and go "Hey, we're becoming more attractive, let's raise ticket prices and see how it goes". Thus far, it's worked out for them. Exactly. PWG has become a "Status Symbol" of sorts now that Celebs are going to it, and they insist on running a singular very, very tiny venue. When you want to run a 10,000+ seat arena, you lose a lot of that exclusivity factor.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Dec 15, 2017 11:34:31 GMT -5
They won't lose money. All they have to do is budget the show to break even at like 2,000 tickets sold, and they're good. Venue rent is the biggest expense of all. Paying their friends is... paying their friends. They'll all probably agree to work for a percentage of whatever the gate ends up being. There aren't any friends in wrestling specially when there's money involved. Yes there are friends in wrestling,even with money involved. 1.Big Daddy V was friends with one of the owners of Powerslam Productions,so worked a Powerslam show for a lower price. Same thing happened with Luke Gallows and a few others. 2.Jerry Lawler is close friends with Hollywood Jimmy,which is why Lawler works Jimmy's annual Labor Day weekend show for a reduced price. 3.Luke Hawx and Stevie Richards are close friends,which is why Stevie works Wildkat shows cheap.
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