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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 9, 2017 11:55:37 GMT -5
It would have partially helped if they had bothered to advertise that Superman was actually in the film, which was never going to be a surprise in this era of media. Like I said in my review, they should have had the full six-person team united at least 1/3rd into the film. It would have allowed the opportunity for better pacing. What's really dumb is that they did show Superman in the early press releases and everyone knew about the CGI Mustache removal despite him never being advertised as being in the movie... but there is the other part of... they didn't earn the Death and Return of Superman. Superman never got a chance to be the beacon of Hope in the movies... he was the prick that didn't care through Man of Steel and then pretty much gave up on humanity in BvS. At no point was he the Man of Tomorrow.... and I'm gonna stop myself as I've ranted about this before No joke, I'm sure that the morose Superman from BvS (and Man of Steel to a lesser extent) drove off a number of filmgoers from Justice League. There is a segment of people who think the standard Superman is too much of a goody-goody, corny and/or too powerful. But that's not how most of the world perceives the character. I think a lot of people are ready for Supes to get "back to basics", and WB hasn't been filling that void.
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Post by eJm on Dec 9, 2017 12:03:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll gladly say Cavill's Superman was the best thing about Justice League by far. The brief time he had on screen was nowhere near enough and it makes me annoyed about how the character was before.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 9, 2017 12:14:02 GMT -5
It would have partially helped if they had bothered to advertise that Superman was actually in the film, which was never going to be a surprise in this era of media. Like I said in my review, they should have had the full six-person team united at least 1/3rd into the film. It would have allowed the opportunity for better pacing. What's really dumb is that they did show Superman in the early press releases and everyone knew about the CGI Mustache removal despite him never being advertised as being in the movie... but there is the other part of... they didn't earn the Death and Return of Superman. Superman never got a chance to be the beacon of Hope in the movies... he was the prick that didn't care through Man of Steel and then pretty much gave up on humanity in BvS. At no point was he the Man of Tomorrow.... and I'm gonna stop myself as I've ranted about this before Yeah, even at his lowest he never gave up or lost faith in humanity. Even in the cartoon finale when all but Lois and Jimmy had turned on him he never up and quit. Watching the movies I'm sitting there wondering when he's gonna start cutting himself
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 9, 2017 12:14:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll gladly say Cavill's Superman was the best thing about Justice League by far. The brief time he had on screen was nowhere near enough and it makes me annoyed about how the character was before. Kids and their parents in my theater were applauding towards the end when Clark was in gear. It was like a collective sense of "finally!"
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chrom
Backup Wench
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Post by chrom on Dec 9, 2017 12:17:38 GMT -5
What's really dumb is that they did show Superman in the early press releases and everyone knew about the CGI Mustache removal despite him never being advertised as being in the movie... but there is the other part of... they didn't earn the Death and Return of Superman. Superman never got a chance to be the beacon of Hope in the movies... he was the prick that didn't care through Man of Steel and then pretty much gave up on humanity in BvS. At no point was he the Man of Tomorrow.... and I'm gonna stop myself as I've ranted about this before No joke, I'm sure that the morose Superman from BvS (and Man of Steel to a lesser extent) drove off a number of filmgoers from Justice League. There is a segment of people who think the standard Superman is too much of a goody-goody, corny and/or too powerful. But that's not how most of the world perceives the character. I think a lot of people are ready for Supes to get "back to basics", and WB hasn't been filling that void. People said the same thing of Captain America and yet Chris Evans' performance made him one of the most beloved characters. Despite the idiotic blunder Marvel attempted last year.
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Post by eJm on Dec 9, 2017 12:20:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll gladly say Cavill's Superman was the best thing about Justice League by far. The brief time he had on screen was nowhere near enough and it makes me annoyed about how the character was before. Kids and their parents in my theater were applauding towards the end when Clark was in gear. It was like a collective sense of "finally!" The reaction wasn't the same in my screen as far as I remember but that was a good moment. {Spoiler}Also, I know it wasn't intended to laugh at it, but I chuckled at Supes going "Tell me, do you bleed?"
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 9, 2017 12:56:34 GMT -5
What's really dumb is that they did show Superman in the early press releases and everyone knew about the CGI Mustache removal despite him never being advertised as being in the movie... but there is the other part of... they didn't earn the Death and Return of Superman. Superman never got a chance to be the beacon of Hope in the movies... he was the prick that didn't care through Man of Steel and then pretty much gave up on humanity in BvS. At no point was he the Man of Tomorrow.... and I'm gonna stop myself as I've ranted about this before No joke, I'm sure that the morose Superman from BvS (and Man of Steel to a lesser extent) drove off a number of filmgoers from Justice League. There is a segment of people who think the standard Superman is too much of a goody-goody, corny and/or too powerful. But that's not how most of the world perceives the character. I think a lot of people are ready for Supes to get "back to basics", and WB hasn't been filling that void. and again in response to the no one wants a boyscout hero any more... Cap and Supes are pretty much the same personality. and before someone says it I'm not saying make a Marvel style movie for DC. But you can put bright hopeful characters into dark situations and still have them be true to their characteristics.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 10, 2017 14:06:23 GMT -5
I mean Geoff really didn't get much of a chance if he's gone. And he was stretched way too thin. His work in comics, work in the DCTVU, and expecting him to head the film division, is expecting too much of one guy. And you want to fix Superman? Keep like he was in Justice League, and have Grant Morrison consult on all movies that feature Supes. Bring back Dean Cain!
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Crimson
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Post by Crimson on Dec 10, 2017 14:23:25 GMT -5
What's really dumb is that they did show Superman in the early press releases and everyone knew about the CGI Mustache removal despite him never being advertised as being in the movie... but there is the other part of... they didn't earn the Death and Return of Superman. Superman never got a chance to be the beacon of Hope in the movies... he was the prick that didn't care through Man of Steel and then pretty much gave up on humanity in BvS. At no point was he the Man of Tomorrow.... and I'm gonna stop myself as I've ranted about this before No joke, I'm sure that the morose Superman from BvS (and Man of Steel to a lesser extent) drove off a number of filmgoers from Justice League. There is a segment of people who think the standard Superman is too much of a goody-goody, corny and/or too powerful. But that's not how most of the world perceives the character. I think a lot of people are ready for Supes to get "back to basics", and WB hasn't been filling that void. And the funny thing there is the MCU proved you can make the character archetype work in this modern, cynical world, with Captain America.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 14:35:24 GMT -5
They should shelve the big hitters for now and earn back the audience with lesser characters this way they can make a smaller movie for hopefully less and earn peoples trust back with great storytelling.
Seeing as DCTV keeps screwing the pooch on what everyone wants...put out a black canary and green arrow movie.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 10, 2017 14:40:04 GMT -5
Snyder shouldn't have been allowed back after Man of Steel. But they did.
Snyder should've been let go and WB should have publicly promised they would never let him or any hack like him and his hack wife touch another DC property after the deplorable flaming trash heap disguised as a movie in BvS. But they did.
WB's new mantra should be "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, I deserve all the losses I incur".
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 10, 2017 15:22:30 GMT -5
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 10, 2017 17:33:03 GMT -5
Notably absent. "Justice League 2"
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 10, 2017 18:13:07 GMT -5
There is a key difference between Cap and Superman: Cap is quite literally from another time, a fish out of water. Also, in quite savvy fashion Marvel has infused his character with a few hints of darkness occasionally, such as Nick Fury noting "You Greatest Generation guys did some salty stuff during the war..." Yes, there was the dubious Perry White line in BVS about "This isn't 1938" that really pissed me off. Thing is, Superman is not a period character. Man of Steel doesn't take place in the 1930s. It's just current day. So there is a dilemma with taking a potentially dated character that isn't really a period character and "modernizing him."
The problem I have with Superman in general is that there's no in between with this guy. He either dominates everyone, or someone has Kryptonite and stomps a mudhole in him like Batman did in the last movie. The guy gave up his powers in Superman 2 and then couldn't even fight a random redneck in a diner. Once he hit the scene in JL Steppenwolf had zero shot against him, so they had to contrive some lame bit about saving civilians to get Superman away from the Steppenwolf fight that he would have won in a squash.
The clearer connection to Cap to me is Wonder Woman. She's another WW2 transplant in comics, or WW1 in the movie. It's a bit troubling when the noble characters in both universes are people from a totally different era in time where being a legit hero wasn't a sign of being lame and uncool.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 10, 2017 19:05:06 GMT -5
There is a key difference between Cap and Superman: Cap is quite literally from another time, a fish out of water. Also, in quite savvy fashion Marvel has infused his character with a few hints of darkness occasionally, such as Nick Fury noting "You Greatest Generation guys did some salty stuff during the war..." Yes, there was the dubious Perry White line in BVS about "This isn't 1938" that really pissed me off. Thing is, Superman is not a period character. Man of Steel doesn't take place in the 1930s. It's just current day. So there is a dilemma with taking a potentially dated character that isn't really a period character and "modernizing him." The problem I have with Superman in general is that there's no in between with this guy. He either dominates everyone, or someone has Kryptonite and stomps a mudhole in him like Batman did in the last movie. The guy gave up his powers in Superman 2 and then couldn't even fight a random redneck in a diner. Once he hit the scene in JL Steppenwolf had zero shot against him, so they had to contrive some lame bit about saving civilians to get Superman away from the Steppenwolf fight that he would have won in a squash. The clearer connection to Cap to me is Wonder Woman. She's another WW2 transplant in comics, or WW1 in the movie. It's a bit troubling when the noble characters in both universes are people from a totally different era in time where being a legit hero wasn't a sign of being lame and uncool. That's not true, there's plenty of opportunities for that in-between with Superman so long as you're giving him cosmic-tier villains to fight and don't write him ridiculously overpowered. The Superman animated series did it all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 22:40:05 GMT -5
I was hoping Major Shake Up was going to be a lesser known hero they would feature a la GotG/Ant Man.
Brb copywriting the concept of Major Shake Up and all her merchandising rights.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 10, 2017 23:24:00 GMT -5
Oh I was speaking primarily of the way Superman is written in the films. He's either dominant or can't win a fight depending on kryptonite. One aspect of the whole death part of BVS and the first half of JL is that no one was remotely buying it, thus it elicited no sadness or tears. They were going for pathos that hadn't been earned, as has been noted before on various threads.
Why not do a hard edged Deathstroke movie that is a 50 million dollar production and is rated R?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 10, 2017 23:51:06 GMT -5
They were going for pathos that hadn't been earned, as has been noted before on various threads. That's been WB-DC's MO from the start. They've traded heavily on their audience being invested in their characters based on the unrelated past movies and comics, and it's come back to bite them in the ass. The only people who gave a shit about Superman dying in BVS are the fanboys who only need to see an actor in the suit to be satisfied. Compare that to when Iron Man and/or Captain America eventually die, you'll have people who never read a comic in their lives crying into their popcorn.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 11, 2017 6:03:05 GMT -5
Oh I was speaking primarily of the way Superman is written in the films. He's either dominant or can't win a fight depending on kryptonite. One aspect of the whole death part of BVS and the first half of JL is that no one was remotely buying it, thus it elicited no sadness or tears. They were going for pathos that hadn't been earned, as has been noted before on various threads. Why not do a hard edged Deathstroke movie that is a 50 million dollar production and is rated R? Oh. My mistake, then. Sorry.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 11, 2017 7:53:48 GMT -5
No joke, I'm sure that the morose Superman from BvS (and Man of Steel to a lesser extent) drove off a number of filmgoers from Justice League. There is a segment of people who think the standard Superman is too much of a goody-goody, corny and/or too powerful. But that's not how most of the world perceives the character. I think a lot of people are ready for Supes to get "back to basics", and WB hasn't been filling that void. and again in response to the no one wants a boyscout hero any more... Cap and Supes are pretty much the same personality. and before someone says it I'm not saying make a Marvel style movie for DC. But you can put bright hopeful characters into dark situations and still have them be true to their characteristics. Captain America is not even one of my top favorite heroes in marvel. But he is the f***ing best written character in the marvel cinematic.He really comes off as that guy you want to rally behind,you believe on his pure sense of justice.
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