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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 11, 2017 10:26:16 GMT -5
Good grief, when I saw Age of Ultron in the theater there was a kid that started bawling when Quicksilver bit the dust and he had been a heel in that movie for 3/4 of the run time! BVS though? No one cared. No one bought that Superman was seriously dead. But then everyone fell for that crap in the early 90s and those who kept reading know he just comes back anyway, so everyone watching figured he would just be back in the next movie.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 11, 2017 15:22:20 GMT -5
Snyder shouldn't have been allowed back after Man of Steel. But they did. Snyder should've been let go and WB should have publicly promised they would never let him or any hack like him and his hack wife touch another DC property after the deplorable flaming trash heap disguised as a movie in BvS. But they did. WB's new mantra should be "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, I deserve all the losses I incur". Why shouldn't he have been back after Man of Steel? It wasn't a flop and a lot of people did like it despite the reception being mixed with fans. But it definitely wasn't one of those failures that should've resorted in Snyder not coming back.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 11, 2017 15:25:20 GMT -5
No joke, I'm sure that the morose Superman from BvS (and Man of Steel to a lesser extent) drove off a number of filmgoers from Justice League. There is a segment of people who think the standard Superman is too much of a goody-goody, corny and/or too powerful. But that's not how most of the world perceives the character. I think a lot of people are ready for Supes to get "back to basics", and WB hasn't been filling that void. and again in response to the no one wants a boyscout hero any more... Cap and Supes are pretty much the same personality. and before someone says it I'm not saying make a Marvel style movie for DC. But you can put bright hopeful characters into dark situations and still have them be true to their characteristics. Here's the thing. You point out Boy Scout in Superman and immediately Christopher Reeve comes to mind. I can understand them not wanting to go the Boy Scout route because I guarantee you if they did, those same fans who complained about Superman in Man of Steel would turn around and say "He smiled too much, too cheesy and corny."
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 11, 2017 16:27:53 GMT -5
Snyder shouldn't have been allowed back after Man of Steel. But they did. Snyder should've been let go and WB should have publicly promised they would never let him or any hack like him and his hack wife touch another DC property after the deplorable flaming trash heap disguised as a movie in BvS. But they did. WB's new mantra should be "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, I deserve all the losses I incur". Why shouldn't he have been back after Man of Steel? It wasn't a flop and a lot of people did like it despite the reception being mixed with fans. But it definitely wasn't one of those failures that should've resorted in Snyder not coming back. Reason enough. Snyder is a hack and so is his wife.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 11, 2017 16:33:48 GMT -5
Why shouldn't he have been back after Man of Steel? It wasn't a flop and a lot of people did like it despite the reception being mixed with fans. But it definitely wasn't one of those failures that should've resorted in Snyder not coming back. Reason enough. Snyder is a hack and so is his wife. 300, Dawn of the Dead, Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole, and Watchmen say otherwise. I definitely don't find him to be a hack in my opinion. He's a genius as far as visuals are concerned and if you give him full control of the visual directing aspect while someone else handles the writing you'd have something amazing. He's not perfect but to simply call him a hack is wrong when there are others who actually fit that description.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 11, 2017 16:36:06 GMT -5
Reason enough. Snyder is a hack and so is his wife. 300, Dawn of the Dead, Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole, and Watchmen say otherwise. I definitely don't find him to be a hack in my opinion. He's a genius as far as visuals are concerned and if you give him full control of the visual directing aspect while someone else handles the writing you'd have something amazing. He's not perfect but to simply call him a hack is wrong when there are others who actually fit that description. I'm entitled to my opinion. Thanks.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 11, 2017 16:37:41 GMT -5
300, Dawn of the Dead, Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole, and Watchmen say otherwise. I definitely don't find him to be a hack in my opinion. He's a genius as far as visuals are concerned and if you give him full control of the visual directing aspect while someone else handles the writing you'd have something amazing. He's not perfect but to simply call him a hack is wrong when there are others who actually fit that description. I'm entitled to my opinion. Thanks. Yes you are. But when push comes to shove if it was between Michael Bay or Zack Snyder handling the DCEU I can safely assume you'd go with Snyder.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 11, 2017 16:38:43 GMT -5
I'm entitled to my opinion. Thanks. Yes you are. But when push comes to shove if it was between Michael Bay or Zack Snyder handling the DCEU I can safely assume you'd go with Snyder. I'd rather never watch a movie again. Bay being a bigger hack doesn't make Snyder less of a hack.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 11, 2017 16:50:19 GMT -5
and again in response to the no one wants a boyscout hero any more... Cap and Supes are pretty much the same personality. and before someone says it I'm not saying make a Marvel style movie for DC. But you can put bright hopeful characters into dark situations and still have them be true to their characteristics. Here's the thing. You point out Boy Scout in Superman and immediately Christopher Reeve comes to mind. I can understand them not wanting to go the Boy Scout route because I guarantee you if they did, those same fans who complained about Superman in Man of Steel would turn around and say "He smiled too much, too cheesy and corny." If all he they did was the same movie only Superman was smiling yeah it'd suck. Because those movies were terrible. But the people that complained about how Superman was portrayed wouldn't complain if they actually portrayed him correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 17:54:01 GMT -5
I feel like Superman vs. the Elite should be required viewing (or read the comic it's based off of, alternatively) for anyone wanting to write a Superman movie. It's not that it's the best Superman story ever by any means or really all that notable of one in the grand scheme of things, but it's a perfect demonstration of exactly how to make him an interesting protagonist while still making him a boyscout and how to take a villain who shouldn't be able to scratch him and still make them viable opposition for him.
And it's not like the idea of Superman being up against a villain who represents everything he isn't and reflects a growing cruelty and cynicism in the world is something you could only do with Manchester Black either. You could make a bunch of movies off the back of that same concept with Luthor, Livewire, probably with some tinkering Cyborg Superman, and plenty of others without at all needing to retread old ground in doing it, and that's without even getting into the stories you could tell with villains who actually ARE direct threats to him like Parasite or Metallo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 18:01:35 GMT -5
My hope is that Snyder is basically told to sit in a corner and told to shut the f*** up in his new role. And he goes away after that.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 11, 2017 18:04:07 GMT -5
My hope is that Snyder is basically told to sit in a corner and told to shut the f*** up in his new role. And he goes away after that. Based on the reports that seems to be the case. He's going to be a relatively hands off producer on the couple of films he has left and then he's out of there.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 11, 2017 18:16:42 GMT -5
I feel like Superman vs. the Elite should be required viewing (or read the comic it's based off of, alternatively) for anyone wanting to write a Superman movie. It's not that it's the best Superman story ever by any means or really all that notable of one in the grand scheme of things, but it's a perfect demonstration of exactly how to make him an interesting protagonist while still making him a boyscout and how to take a villain who shouldn't be able to scratch him and still make them viable opposition for him.
And it's not like the idea of Superman being up against a villain who represents everything he isn't and reflects a growing cruelty and cynicism in the world is something you could only do with Manchester Black either. You could make a bunch of movies off the back of that same concept with Luthor, Livewire, probably with some tinkering Cyborg Superman, and plenty of others without at all needing to retread old ground in doing it, and that's without even getting into the stories you could tell with villains who actually ARE direct threats to him like Parasite or Metallo. How do they accomplish that? The general public definitely wouldn't buy The Elite even being remotely a challenge to Superman.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 18:24:30 GMT -5
I feel like Superman vs. the Elite should be required viewing (or read the comic it's based off of, alternatively) for anyone wanting to write a Superman movie. It's not that it's the best Superman story ever by any means or really all that notable of one in the grand scheme of things, but it's a perfect demonstration of exactly how to make him an interesting protagonist while still making him a boyscout and how to take a villain who shouldn't be able to scratch him and still make them viable opposition for him.
And it's not like the idea of Superman being up against a villain who represents everything he isn't and reflects a growing cruelty and cynicism in the world is something you could only do with Manchester Black either. You could make a bunch of movies off the back of that same concept with Luthor, Livewire, probably with some tinkering Cyborg Superman, and plenty of others without at all needing to retread old ground in doing it, and that's without even getting into the stories you could tell with villains who actually ARE direct threats to him like Parasite or Metallo. How do they accomplish that? The general public definitely wouldn't buy The Elite even being remotely a challenge to Superman. Well, I'm not necessarily saying specifically do that story or have the Elite do it, just in that the ideal opposition for Superman isn't a physical threat, it's something that can undermine his ideas and push his faith in his principles and the world around him.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 11, 2017 18:31:08 GMT -5
How do they accomplish that? The general public definitely wouldn't buy The Elite even being remotely a challenge to Superman. Well, I'm not necessarily saying specifically do that story or have the Elite do it, just in that the ideal opposition for Superman isn't a physical threat, it's something that can undermine his ideas and push his faith in his principles and the world around him. Yup. It's basically a reversal of the trope where the hero is facing an enemy so overpowered they have to come up with another way of beating them. Nobody's beating Superman in a fist fight without a very limited and specific set of circumstances, so find another way to try to beat him.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 11, 2017 20:08:57 GMT -5
and again in response to the no one wants a boyscout hero any more... Cap and Supes are pretty much the same personality. and before someone says it I'm not saying make a Marvel style movie for DC. But you can put bright hopeful characters into dark situations and still have them be true to their characteristics. Here's the thing. You point out Boy Scout in Superman and immediately Christopher Reeve comes to mind. I can understand them not wanting to go the Boy Scout route because I guarantee you if they did, those same fans who complained about Superman in Man of Steel would turn around and say "He smiled too much, too cheesy and corny." I can almost guarantee that wouldn't happen. For the VAST majority of the population, Reeve IS Superman. So that portrayal is the default for what people think about the character, and they wouldn't bat an eye. One of the biggest things Justice League has been praised for is for actually letting Superman be Superman.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Dec 11, 2017 23:40:15 GMT -5
Still snyder hate after wb hire joss, reshot, edited, and changed,the entire movie for a bonus guarantee for their wallets?
Its,pretty clear snyder was a scapegoat and opinions are vast and,divided but i liked mos a lot and also bvs. I have yet to watch justice league,because im simply tired of cgi and superhero/blockbusters
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 11, 2017 23:58:38 GMT -5
Still snyder hate after wb hire joss, reshot, edited, and changed,the entire movie for a bonus guarantee for their wallets? Its,pretty clear snyder was a scapegoat and opinions are vast and,divided but i liked mos a lot and also bvs. I have yet to watch justice league,because im simply tired of cgi and superhero/blockbusters Yeah, they did chop up Justice League. But, he is entirely to blame for BvS, which is why their films have a crummy reputation in the first place.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 12, 2017 0:02:16 GMT -5
Still snyder hate after wb hire joss, reshot, edited, and changed,the entire movie for a bonus guarantee for their wallets? Its,pretty clear snyder was a scapegoat and opinions are vast and,divided but i liked mos a lot and also bvs. I have yet to watch justice league,because im simply tired of cgi and superhero/blockbusters Yeah, they did chop up Justice League. But, he is entirely to blame for BvS, which is why their films have a crummy reputation in the first place. Yep, Batman V Superman is what got them in this mess. Not to mention from what I have heard t's pretty blatant which of his scenes made it into Justice League and which didn't. Since there is mood whiplash throughout the entire thing. Not to mention since almost all of Superman's scenes were reshot it's pretty obvious that at least one of the big things people liked about the movie (how Superman was handled) was from Whedon.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 12, 2017 0:17:35 GMT -5
Yeah, they did chop up Justice League. But, he is entirely to blame for BvS, which is why their films have a crummy reputation in the first place. Yep, Batman V Superman is what got them in this mess. Not to mention from what I have heard t's pretty blatant which of his scenes made it into Justice League and which didn't. Since there is mood whiplash throughout the entire thing. Not to mention since almost all of Superman's scenes were reshot it's pretty obvious that at least one of the big things people liked about the movie (how Superman was handled) was from Whedon. Based on what I've read and heard almost all the light-hearted stuff in Snyder's cut was in the very first teaser trailer (much like Suicide Squad, then), and that his cut was essentially more of the same grimdark shit people hated about MOS and BVS.
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