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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 21, 2017 16:24:05 GMT -5
Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t he decide to go into business for himself after Kurt used his seniority as an excuse to brutalise a couple other Tough Enough contestants? Unprofessionalism shouldn’t be met with unprofessionalism, but was Puder supposed to just let himself be bullied as well because rasslin? Could understand where he’s coming from. As I recall, they had them do a workout, then brought out Angle to have a shoot match with each of the contestants once they were worn out. If anyone is to blame it's the booking team for deliberately putting Angle in a spot where he could get injured and get made to look bad. Especially considering he was probably way out of his element.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 21, 2017 17:09:49 GMT -5
As I recall, they had them do a workout, then brought out Angle to have a shoot match with each of the contestants once they were worn out. If anyone is to blame it's the booking team for deliberately putting Angle in a spot where he could get injured and get made to look bad. Especially considering he was probably way out of his element. And not learning the Brawl for All lesson, you put people in a shoot, and anything can happen, no matter the reputations and accolades.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 17:16:47 GMT -5
As I recall, they had them do a workout, then brought out Angle to have a shoot match with each of the contestants once they were worn out. If anyone is to blame it's the booking team for deliberately putting Angle in a spot where he could get injured and get made to look bad. Especially considering he was probably way out of his element. They had them doing squats to blow them all up. This was after they'd had them wolf pasta and milk and run shuttles to make them vomit. The winner then got their reward which was a grappling match with no defined rules with Angle. Angle and whoever booked this are the bad guys at this point because they set this up to brutalise blown up rookies on TV. He beat the winner in short order, breaking the guy's ribs in the process. Angle definitely the bad guy here. Then he laid the open challenge. Puder answers. The rules are given. Puder at no point breaks the rules, and a trained shootfighter in that situation takes control and puts Angle in the hold. Angle had nerve damage in his arms at this stage so whether he wasn't aware the arm would have snapped or just didn't know what hold he found himself in, he was screwed. Korderas called an audible and counted the pin. Puder might well be a dick, but this situation doesn't make him one. He fought fire with fire. For me, the whole shindig ranks up there with the most unprofessional stuff WWE has done.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Dec 21, 2017 19:09:33 GMT -5
Yeah, Angle is favorite ever and I could care less about Puder.
That whole situation was such a disgusting display of why people don't respect wrestling. Just a display of abusing power for your own amusement and not because it's good television.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Dec 21, 2017 19:29:02 GMT -5
Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t he decide to go into business for himself after Kurt used his seniority as an excuse to brutalise a couple other Tough Enough contestants? Unprofessionalism shouldn’t be met with unprofessionalism, but was Puder supposed to just let himself be bullied as well because rasslin? Could understand where he’s coming from. I've heard a million different versions of this story. Puder went into business for himself. Puder was told it was a shoot. Angle and Puder agreed to what happened between them and didn't let anybody know. Etc. Whatever the true story is, I think WWE wasted the opportunity of Daniel "I broke Kurt Angle" Puder just to have Holly, Benoit and Guerrero humiliate him at the Royal Rumble. And I'd bet dollars that that shithead Michael Hayes told Puder something along the lines of "go out there and take the beating, pay your penance and the guys will respect you forever" knowing full well Puder was about to get released.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 21, 2017 21:02:57 GMT -5
Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t he decide to go into business for himself after Kurt used his seniority as an excuse to brutalise a couple other Tough Enough contestants? Unprofessionalism shouldn’t be met with unprofessionalism, but was Puder supposed to just let himself be bullied as well because rasslin? Could understand where he’s coming from. I've heard a million different versions of this story. Puder went into business for himself. Puder was told it was a shoot. Angle and Puder agreed to what happened between them and didn't let anybody know. Etc. Whatever the true story is, I think WWE wasted the opportunity of Daniel "I broke Kurt Angle" Puder just to have Holly, Benoit and Guerrero humiliate him at the Royal Rumble. And I'd bet dollars that that shithead Michael Hayes told Puder something along the lines of "go out there and take the beating, pay your penance and the guys will respect you forever" knowing full well Puder was about to get released. From what Lance Storm says, Puder got more heat because he had a huge entourage to help him with everything rather than getting heat for the Angle thing. A little different as he's not a wrestler, but Gabe Sapolski is known to be very difficult to work with on shows and tends to not let wrestlers be themselves (he tends to fall in love with the idea of serious shoot gimmicks)
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efarns
Don Corleone
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Post by efarns on Dec 21, 2017 21:08:07 GMT -5
When I heard Kurt Angle start his side of the story with "First of all, I had a 102 degree temperature," followed by burying Puder, I know that he knows he got beat.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 21, 2017 21:56:07 GMT -5
The funny thing about all of this, is you never brought up Savage's most unprofessional moment, when he quit WWF. Funny, I would have considered his most unprofessional moments being when he'd show up at the competition's shows and try to start fights with whoever was around.
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FHgrad99
Vegeta
Never mind that s***, here comes Mongo!
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Post by FHgrad99 on Dec 21, 2017 23:13:31 GMT -5
Didn't Tanaka also for years tell younger guys that for a fee he could get them booked in Japan? And it was all a scam? Reportedly, yes. Another one that - while he has a bad rep, it isn't nearly as bad as it probably should be - is Buzz Sawyer. By most accounts a bully, thief and general asshole, that part of him doesn't get mentioned nearly enough when his name comes up. I've heard Jim Cornette call Buzz Sawyer a miserable f-word on a number of occasions. It doesn't seem like he was friendly with anybody.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 21, 2017 23:14:48 GMT -5
The funny thing about all of this, is you never brought up Savage's most unprofessional moment, when he quit WWF. Funny, I would have considered his most unprofessional moments being when he'd show up at the competition's shows and try to start fights with whoever was around. Yeah, that whole sucker punching Bill Dundee thing, for example, has to rank higher than quitting a promotion in a way that still got him a "thanks for everything" mention on air when it first happened.
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Dec 21, 2017 23:48:18 GMT -5
As I recall, they had them do a workout, then brought out Angle to have a shoot match with each of the contestants once they were worn out. If anyone is to blame it's the booking team for deliberately putting Angle in a spot where he could get injured and get made to look bad. Especially considering he was probably way out of his element. Al Show claimed that he tried trying Vince and CO that this was a bad idea. But I do find it amusing that Kurt to this very day is still extremely butthurt over it as his ego must of taken a severe bruising from getting embarrassed by Puder.
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Post by Alexander The So-so on Dec 22, 2017 1:14:46 GMT -5
Didn't Tanaka also for years tell younger guys that for a fee he could get them booked in Japan? And it was all a scam? Reportedly, yes. Another one that - while he has a bad rep, it isn't nearly as bad as it probably should be - is Buzz Sawyer. By most accounts a bully, thief and general asshole, that part of him doesn't get mentioned nearly enough when his name comes up. I've heard the story that he ripped off the future Undertaker. When he was first breaking into the business, Mark Callaway went to Buzz to be his trainer, making a big down payment for lessons. Buzz taught him one lesson, and then skipped town and never taught him anything again, taking Callaway's money and running.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 22, 2017 1:24:30 GMT -5
Reportedly, yes. Another one that - while he has a bad rep, it isn't nearly as bad as it probably should be - is Buzz Sawyer. By most accounts a bully, thief and general asshole, that part of him doesn't get mentioned nearly enough when his name comes up. I've heard the story that he ripped off the future Undertaker. When he was first breaking into the business, Mark Callaway went to Buzz to be his trainer, making a big down payment for lessons. Buzz taught him one lesson, and then skipped town and never taught him anything again, taking Callaway's money and running. You can allegedly add Magnum TA to that. Supposedly, his parents put up money for him to train under Buzz, who promptly skipped town. Magnum actually tracked him down and Buzz actually worked with him then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 2:28:06 GMT -5
Puder did have an awesome, crushing line about Angle when asked about Kurt's constantly stating he was going into MMA a few years ago.
"His brain must have atrophy as bad as his arms"
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 22, 2017 2:51:07 GMT -5
Puder answers. The rules are given. Puder at no point breaks the rules, and a trained shootfighter in that situation takes control and puts Angle in the hold. Angle had nerve damage in his arms at this stage so whether he wasn't aware the arm would have snapped or just didn't know what hold he found himself in, he was screwed. Korderas called an audible and counted the pin. I don't disagree with your assessment that Angle was the bad guy, but I swear Puder's shoulders are down. After the match, Angle's all in his face, saying basically "You're in a wrestling match and you immediately fell over on your back; what's wrong with you?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 3:31:05 GMT -5
Puder answers. The rules are given. Puder at no point breaks the rules, and a trained shootfighter in that situation takes control and puts Angle in the hold. Angle had nerve damage in his arms at this stage so whether he wasn't aware the arm would have snapped or just didn't know what hold he found himself in, he was screwed. Korderas called an audible and counted the pin. I don't disagree with your assessment that Angle was the bad guy, but I swear Puder's shoulders are down. After the match, Angle's all in his face, saying basically "You're in a wrestling match and you immediately fell over on your back; what's wrong with you?" You may well be right, it was close enough that it wasn't glaring in any case. I know Jimmy has said the shoulders weren't down but he may just be working as well. That does seem a lot like Angle saving face or at least trying to there though. It WASN'T a wrestling match and if Jimmy hadn't counted then Puder would have snapped his arm.
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Post by corndog on Dec 22, 2017 16:53:20 GMT -5
The funny thing about all of this, is you never brought up Savage's most unprofessional moment, when he quit WWF. Funny, I would have considered his most unprofessional moments being when he'd show up at the competition's shows and try to start fights with whoever was around. In terms of the business as a whole, certainly. But I am not sure how much of that was Angelo pushing them to do it and Randy's own insanity. To me it felt like publicity stunts that ended up going too far and really solidified Savage as unpredictable and batshit crazy. I really feel bad for Bill Dundee in all of this.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 22, 2017 16:53:56 GMT -5
Can't believe we've neglected to mention the ultimate one: Roddy Piper.
Guess back then it was viewed as smart to refuse to be pinned, but imagine if someone tried that shit today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 17:10:01 GMT -5
Can't believe we've neglected to mention the ultimate one: Roddy Piper. Guess back then it was viewed as smart to refuse to be pinned, but imagine if someone tried that shit today. He got pinned all the time on house shows. He just protected himself on TV, same as Hogan (although obviously not the same level of draw, Piper is my all time favourite and I know that) so his value wouldn't diminish.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 22, 2017 18:54:26 GMT -5
Can't believe we've neglected to mention the ultimate one: Roddy Piper. Guess back then it was viewed as smart to refuse to be pinned, but imagine if someone tried that shit today. He got pinned all the time on house shows. He actually didn't. During his big heel run in WWF, he was only pinned once that I'm aware of, and that was by Jimmy Snuka. He wouldn't suffer another pin until 1987 after he turned babyface, in a match where Adonis defeated him with the help of special referee Andre, who held Piper down while Adrian pinned him. His post-Hollywood return would see him lose a little more often when he jobbed 2-3 times for Rick Rude and once for Perfect, before his big title loss to Hart. He was pinned on TV more often during the handful of years he was in WCW than he was the entirety of his WWF years, TV or house show.
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