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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 28, 2017 0:43:40 GMT -5
In a vacuum, I wouldn't 100% mind some different reactions between male and female members of the roster because, hey, fine, there is a historical component to what's happening with the women lately, and playing that up doesn't have to automatically be a bad thing.
But when you put storylines and characterizations aside to create another artificial "moment" that they want so they can put it in hype videos and retrospectives on the Network, it just adds a 16 ton weight worth of force to the argument that WWE's matches/feuds/etc. tend to come across as cold, corporate, or "soulless", for lack of a better term. You can sell me on the idea that some of the babyface women will now get a chance to get their hands on hated heel rivals in a no holds barred setting while pursuing a WM title shot, but you can't really sell me on "this is HISTORIC!" when you're showing me a worked sport.
And yeah, the tragedy of Stephanie McMahon is that she's fully capable of being a damn fine performer, but she's her own worst enemy with regards to fulfilling her potential due to her need to always seem bigger, stronger, and smarter than everybody else. The idea that any full-time female wrestler who isn't a comedy heel should be afraid of her is batshit insane, because all she should have going for her in the ring, kayfabe-wise, is "I'm bigger than you, so I might be able to land a lucky hit and knock you out", whereas the other women should be able to outwrestle her easily since wrestling is, y'know...their job.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Dec 28, 2017 2:48:11 GMT -5
I'll read the other dozen pages tomorrow but quickly if someone hasn't already mentioned it, on NXT even Asuka has fallen into this "hug your opponent after a ppv match" trap when she celebrated with her archnemesis Ember Moon after the latter finally won the NXT title.
I don't know why Asuka would congratulate her in the first place, but Ember definitely shouldnt have hugged her back in the second place-- seeing as how Asuka is the inclimbable Kilamanjaro for Ember that she never conquered nor ever will (as long as she remains in NXT).
But you also had heel Sasha hugging face Bayley after Bayley wins Sasha's title. In fact the only women who keep kayfabe in the WWE always no matter the circumstance are the Iconic Duo who seemingly will never escape NXT ironically cause they are too good at being true heels.
WWE main has largely copied everything they can about the NXT Women's division to try and emulate its success. Women breaking character when a 'milestone' happens is the bread and butter of that environment. I wish they would find a different way to celebrate these milestones on RAW/SDLive cause it makes the Women Superstars look green.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 28, 2017 7:33:46 GMT -5
As always, the biggest (non-kayfabe) issue with all the "HISTORIC ZOMG!!!" stuff is that they just refuse to give it room to breathe and speak for itself. They have to have Steph and Cole (and let's face it, how they use Cole is one of the biggest problems PERIOD) verbally shove it down your throat until it makes you ill, and then shove it down your throat even more.
Let the moment stand on its own, instead of the incessant shilling.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 28, 2017 7:39:32 GMT -5
Everything having to be HISTORIC and all hugs in the women's division is part and parcel of WWE's huge problem with feeling so manufactured and stale that they clearly don't remember how to tell a story anymore. They just yell at you that something is important and pat themselves on the back for it without making people care as much as they should. The company's handling of women has come a long way in the past few years, but WWE decided to spend so much time sucking their own dick over it that it doesn't really feel like it should, and they spend so much time dwelling on how it's HISTORIC at the expense of building any actual storyline to go with it that there's still this weird artificial division keeping the women from ever feeling like they're not a sideshow attraction to the main male talent who really matter, because their stories can't go that extra step of feeling integrated and important.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 28, 2017 10:05:34 GMT -5
Everything having to be HISTORIC and all hugs in the women's division is part and parcel of WWE's huge problem with feeling so manufactured and stale that they clearly don't remember how to tell a story anymore. They just yell at you that something is important and pat themselves on the back for it without making people care as much as they should. The company's handling of women has come a long way in the past few years, but WWE decided to spend so much time sucking their own dick over it that it doesn't really feel like it should, and they spend so much time dwelling on how it's HISTORIC at the expense of building any actual storyline to go with it that there's still this weird artificial division keeping the women from ever feeling like they're not a sideshow attraction to the main male talent who really matter, because their stories can't go that extra step of feeling integrated and important. Which as usual, comes down to WWE's blatant begging and pleading for headlines. Everything they do is that CM Punk "PAY! ATTENTION! TO! MEEEEEEEEEEE!" gif now.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 28, 2017 10:35:59 GMT -5
Everything having to be HISTORIC and all hugs in the women's division is part and parcel of WWE's huge problem with feeling so manufactured and stale that they clearly don't remember how to tell a story anymore. They just yell at you that something is important and pat themselves on the back for it without making people care as much as they should. The company's handling of women has come a long way in the past few years, but WWE decided to spend so much time sucking their own dick over it that it doesn't really feel like it should, and they spend so much time dwelling on how it's HISTORIC at the expense of building any actual storyline to go with it that there's still this weird artificial division keeping the women from ever feeling like they're not a sideshow attraction to the main male talent who really matter, because their stories can't go that extra step of feeling integrated and important. Which as usual, comes down to WWE's blatant begging and pleading for headlines. Everything they do is that CM Punk "PAY! ATTENTION! TO! MEEEEEEEEEEE!" gif now. I think it's in part a matter of begging for attention and acknowledgement they've done A Good Thing when they had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward it, but I think there's more to it than that. It's the same way WWE forces WRESTLEMANIA MOMENTS and thinks that if Michael Cole says something is important, it inherently is important and the audience will buy it. Nothing is organic anymore, nothing is ever given space to breathe because they can't build stories in a way people care about and have this focused obsession with dictating peoples' emotions to them and insisting that they feel that they're supposed to feel without earning it. When it happened in NXT, it was organic; the post-Demott trainers balked at the idea of training the women to "wrestle like divas" and they had enough champions backstage to be able to break free from the mold, putting on matches above the quality of what was expected of them in their role until they managed to turn the audience around on what that role really was. When Sasha vs. Bayley main evented a Takeover, it felt natural and it felt justified, because things had worked up to that and people were deeply invested in seeing the conclusion of the storyline. It grew into a change of how things were being done without necessarily screaming it at people, but once they went up to the main roster and we had the DIVAS REVOLUTION it was very blatantly 'You will care about this because we say it's important and a big deal' but the execution proper was completely mishandled and it took a while for the women to get over because of how poorly they were brought up. Things being HISTORIC is as much about getting headlines as it is about dictrating to an audience what to feel because they've forgotten how to tell a story.
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Dec 28, 2017 13:33:12 GMT -5
With them breaking character between Ember and Asuka, I personally find that as respect. In terms of Bay and Sasha at Takeover Brooklyn, I feel it was just a mutual happiness between 2 good friends. Nothing wrong with either scenario to me.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 28, 2017 13:36:12 GMT -5
With them breaking character between Ember and Asuka, I personally find that as respect. In terms of Bay and Sasha at Takeover Brooklyn, I feel it was just a mutual happiness between 2 good friends. Nothing wrong with either scenario to me. Yeah the guise of earning each others respect or fighting so hard in a brutal rivalry with having the backstory that they used to be good friends and it all comes to an end, these are crutches you can lean on for slightly Kayfabe breaking moments but can still keep the immersion of the gimmick and match, making it feel worthwhile This segment didn't do any of that.
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Post by eJm on Dec 28, 2017 15:40:25 GMT -5
With them breaking character between Ember and Asuka, I personally find that as respect. In terms of Bay and Sasha at Takeover Brooklyn, I feel it was just a mutual happiness between 2 good friends. Nothing wrong with either scenario to me. Yeah, I can agree with that. With the former, Ember’s been the closest to beating Asuka after Asuka basically said she wasn’t worth anything so of course Asuka would earn their respect. Same with the latter but with a much bigger backstory with Bayley losing to everyone and seeing her fellow horse women go to the main roster before her and essentially beating everyone whose beaten her to earn a title match, go to the biggest stage of NXT and beat the person she’s never beaten for a title she’s been close to sniffing so in that context, it made sense too. The flower stuff was weird in the rematch but I guess there’s context in Stardom and the like for that so I kinda get it.
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