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Post by Yacht Persona on Dec 22, 2017 20:27:03 GMT -5
She still gets decent pops, and I personally will never stop loving Bayley, but it's clear that she was one of the talents Vince and the other fossils don't "get."
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Post by Captain & Diet on Dec 22, 2017 20:34:44 GMT -5
The mishandling of Bayley and Finn Balor are 100% examples of Vince telling Hunter that he's still the boss. This. Every fan today is an "internet fan." NXT fans may be snarks but I've been to enough TV tapings and house shows to know that the crowd knows who each performer is, especially someone like Bayley. Vince, and I believe Kevin Dunn too, buried the shit out of her because they don't "get" Bayley's appeal. If she looked like Trish Stratus or Charlotte, Bayley would be a 10x Champion. But because she's got a unique look and she's a wrestling nerd, she irritates them. Bayley should be the number 2 star in the company. Her gimmick is essentially female John Cena. Vince/Dunn just doesn't understand it because she isn't their idea of sexy. Which by the way is completely f***ed because Bayley has an insane body but her face is a different kind of pretty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 21:28:23 GMT -5
The mishandling of Bayley and Finn Balor are 100% examples of Vince telling Hunter that he's still the boss. This. Every fan today is an "internet fan." NXT fans may be snarls but I've been to enough TV tapings and house shows to know that the crowd knows who each performer is, especially someone like Bayley. Vince and I believe Kevin Dunn, too, buried the shit out of her because they doesn't "get" Bayley's appeal. If she looked like Trish Stratus or Charlotte, Bayley would be a 10x Champion. But because she's got a unique look and she's a wrestling nerd, she irritates him. Bayley should be the number 2 star in the company. Her gimmick is essentially female John Cena. Vince/Dunn just doesn't understand it because she isn't his idea of sexy. Which by the way is completely f***ed because Bayley has an insane body but her face is a different kind of pretty. John Cena probably would have been a career midcarder if he had Bayley or Balor's promo ability. I know people like to blame Vince and Dunn for everything and while creative isn't blameless, a lot of these NXT-darlings have major flaws that diehards seem to be hesitant to acknowledge.
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 22, 2017 21:34:21 GMT -5
This. Every fan today is an "internet fan." NXT fans may be snarls but I've been to enough TV tapings and house shows to know that the crowd knows who each performer is, especially someone like Bayley. Vince and I believe Kevin Dunn, too, buried the shit out of her because they doesn't "get" Bayley's appeal. If she looked like Trish Stratus or Charlotte, Bayley would be a 10x Champion. But because she's got a unique look and she's a wrestling nerd, she irritates him. Bayley should be the number 2 star in the company. Her gimmick is essentially female John Cena. Vince/Dunn just doesn't understand it because she isn't his idea of sexy. Which by the way is completely f***ed because Bayley has an insane body but her face is a different kind of pretty. John Cena probably would have been a career midcarder if he had Bayley or Balor's promo ability. I know people like to blame Vince and Dunn for everything and while creative isn't blameless, a lot of these NXT-darlings have major flaws that diehards seem to be hesitant to acknowledge. Very good points, but I truly wonder if they didn't script them so hard, maybe we can see if they got actual promo chops.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Dec 23, 2017 0:04:28 GMT -5
John Cena probably would have been a career midcarder if he had Bayley or Balor's promo ability. I know people like to blame Vince and Dunn for everything and while creative isn't blameless, a lot of these NXT-darlings have major flaws that diehards seem to be hesitant to acknowledge. Very good points, but I truly wonder if they didn't script them so hard, maybe we can see if they got actual promo chops. The one time Bayley ad-libbed, the crowd booed her even more.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 0:15:39 GMT -5
Bayley died for me when Booker made her cut a promo and it was Roman level bad.
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Post by corndog on Dec 23, 2017 1:40:36 GMT -5
This. Every fan today is an "internet fan." NXT fans may be snarls but I've been to enough TV tapings and house shows to know that the crowd knows who each performer is, especially someone like Bayley. Vince and I believe Kevin Dunn, too, buried the shit out of her because they doesn't "get" Bayley's appeal. If she looked like Trish Stratus or Charlotte, Bayley would be a 10x Champion. But because she's got a unique look and she's a wrestling nerd, she irritates him. Bayley should be the number 2 star in the company. Her gimmick is essentially female John Cena. Vince/Dunn just doesn't understand it because she isn't his idea of sexy. Which by the way is completely f***ed because Bayley has an insane body but her face is a different kind of pretty. John Cena probably would have been a career midcarder if he had Bayley or Balor's promo ability. I know people like to blame Vince and Dunn for everything and while creative isn't blameless, a lot of these NXT-darlings have major flaws that diehards seem to be hesitant to acknowledge. As much as I hate to agree with you, you are right, at least about Bayley. She is terrible on the mic and only got tolerable in NXT when they gave her an "edge" at the end of her run. I think Balor just needs to find a personality. He's not terrible on the mic, he just has no character.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 23, 2017 3:00:22 GMT -5
This whole conversation is weird. Bayley originally got over in NXT with her talking. She was insta-over when she rambled about dinosaurs to a bemused Renee Young.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 3:08:10 GMT -5
This. Every fan today is an "internet fan." NXT fans may be snarls but I've been to enough TV tapings and house shows to know that the crowd knows who each performer is, especially someone like Bayley. Vince and I believe Kevin Dunn, too, buried the shit out of her because they doesn't "get" Bayley's appeal. If she looked like Trish Stratus or Charlotte, Bayley would be a 10x Champion. But because she's got a unique look and she's a wrestling nerd, she irritates him. Bayley should be the number 2 star in the company. Her gimmick is essentially female John Cena. Vince/Dunn just doesn't understand it because she isn't his idea of sexy. Which by the way is completely f***ed because Bayley has an insane body but her face is a different kind of pretty. John Cena probably would have been a career midcarder if he had Bayley or Balor's promo ability. I know people like to blame Vince and Dunn for everything and while creative isn't blameless, a lot of these NXT-darlings have major flaws that diehards seem to be hesitant to acknowledge. My response to this is just to point at Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy. Neither one can talk for shit, they've both been massive draws over the years and universally over. If someone isn't good at cutting promos limit how much they do it and accentuate them in other ways. This isn't hard.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 3:23:25 GMT -5
John Cena probably would have been a career midcarder if he had Bayley or Balor's promo ability. I know people like to blame Vince and Dunn for everything and while creative isn't blameless, a lot of these NXT-darlings have major flaws that diehards seem to be hesitant to acknowledge. My response to this is just to point at Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy. Neither one can talk for shit, they've both been massive draws over the years and universally over. If someone isn't good at cutting promos limit how much they do it and accentuate them in other ways. This isn't hard. It's not impossible but I think those two are exceptions to the rule. The vast, vast majority of wrestlers who have drawn in the television era were good talkers. For every Rey and Jeff there's countless bad talkers who never drew a dime.
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Post by theironyuppie on Dec 23, 2017 11:28:19 GMT -5
I think part of it is that she still hasn't really been presented as a central focus on the main roster, her booking has always been designed to put other wrestlers first. The Charlotte feud confusingly aimed to make Charlotte look like the face in the end (Fastlane especially), most of her title reign featured her losing matches and the focus being on building a Sasha heel turn that never happened, and most of the year she's spent jobbing to Nia, Alexa, Alicia Fox, Tamina, and prettymuch anyone who's a heel. (I know people complain about her booking, but Sasha gets much more protection.) The Alexa feud was this principle taken to the absolute extreme, where they were so focused on making Alexa look strong and the focus of the division that it let her character get destroyed.
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Post by theironyuppie on Dec 23, 2017 11:29:39 GMT -5
Bayley died for me when Booker made her cut a promo and it was Roman level bad. It wasn't very good, sure, but Booker and Lita made it much worse by bashing her promo out of character rather than just playing along.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 23, 2017 11:44:39 GMT -5
On NXT she was the everywoman. A geek who was just happy to finally realise her dream. People could relate to her.
On the main roster, as I've said before, she's been booked as the female Eugene. Fans will never accept an idiot who won't even use a weapon in a weapon-based match because she's too nice...awwwww, seriously piss off.
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Post by freeze Austin on Dec 23, 2017 18:29:09 GMT -5
Being over or not being over has only ever mattered to Vince if he's looking for a reason to NOT push someone. If he wants to push you because he thinks he can market you to networks, women, and children, it doesn't matter if you get 50-50 reactions, he'll still push you.
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Sam Punk
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Post by Sam Punk on Dec 24, 2017 18:58:56 GMT -5
She still gets decent pops, and I personally will never stop loving Bayley, but it's clear that she was one of the talents Vince and the other fossils don't "get." Yep. If Bayley was blonde with big boobs Vince would be pushing her to the moon. Unfortunately she's 0/2 there.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 24, 2017 20:18:18 GMT -5
Bayley is one of the most blatant examples of WWE Creative/Vince taking what worked for someone in NXT and completely missing the point to where it becomes a caricature of their former selves.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 20:55:03 GMT -5
I never really understood Bayley very well. OK she's a nice girl that supposedly likes hugging people, but what else?
Note: I don't watch NXT.
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BigAl
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Post by BigAl on Dec 24, 2017 22:02:34 GMT -5
She, and even sasha and Becky is a prime example that Vince and Dunn only want to push blond, like trish, mccool, Charlotte and now alexa who just beat the record of longest reign. Bayley ain't blond or married to a main events like the Bella so there
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 24, 2017 23:09:11 GMT -5
I still don't get how they went from her being a happy, positive face to them acting like she was full-on child-like. The former people will root for, the latter not so much. Yes, main show ruined her character, just like the other call ups that haven't performed. It's simple... different writers, different perspectives.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 24, 2017 23:23:42 GMT -5
And one could end it right there. Vince absolutely resents that his audience has continually trended nerdier over the past 15 years, and he seems to absolutely recoil and rage against the presence of anything nerdy in his company (with the very notable exception of Xavier Woods).
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