Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 5, 2018 19:54:48 GMT -5
Never got her appeal at all. Ever. Kids. She could have been the John Cena of the women's division.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jan 5, 2018 19:58:31 GMT -5
Yeah but someone that knows how to promo well can take a hostile crowd and use it. Bayley awkwardly stumbled over her words and called out the crowd for booing her, not a good babyface thing to say. Take someone like Cena, who has turned crowd to his side with promos on more than one occasion. People always say that Bayley is the female Cena. A huuuuuuge part of the Cena game is his promo ability and Bayley ain’t even close. In her defense, the booing and said awkward promo would have never happened if booked right. She had the same mic game on NXT and that worked amazing for her because the crowd was taught that Bayley's potential awkwardness is part of why you should love her. It's like a sort of Aw shucks kind of charm. The main roster crowds were never taught anything like that. Bayley also had the benefit of editing and crowd sweetening of course in NXT
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,192
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Post by Spider2024 on Jan 5, 2018 19:58:40 GMT -5
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 5, 2018 20:07:57 GMT -5
Here's something I just thought of today. I think WWE may like having a situation where the gimmick of the female talent doesn't fully match the person. So you can book Charlotte or Alexa as the alpha heels but then you can have Ashley and Lexi be these vulnerable young women overcoming obstacles to make it in a male dominated industry. So they can have their cake and can eat it to. You have both the heel characters they think they need to advance the story while at the same time they have these young women who "out of character" can do press about their struggles and what not. With Bailey her gimmick is a woman who loved WWE and worked to be a talent. IRL that seems to be the same story. So they don't have a dichotomy to defer to where it can be said "You think you know Bailey but Pam Martinez's story is really..." and I think to WWE with the female talent they think that is important.
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AlexaBliss4Life
Unicron
Alexa Bliss is the Queen the wrestling world needs!
Posts: 2,610
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 5, 2018 20:12:56 GMT -5
In her defense, the booing and said awkward promo would have never happened if booked right. She had the same mic game on NXT and that worked amazing for her because the crowd was taught that Bayley's potential awkwardness is part of why you should love her. It's like a sort of Aw shucks kind of charm. The main roster crowds were never taught anything like that. Bayley also had the benefit of editing and crowd sweetening of course in NXT True but I doubt there was that much crowd sweetening.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 20:41:25 GMT -5
Bayley's failure is a mix of a multitude of things. In no real order let's get down to it. 1. Alexa Bliss. Bayley went up against "Reign of Terror Era" Alexa Bliss and she had no chance. That feud really hurt Bayley and honestly they could have found a way to keep Bayley over in that feud but they didn't because she. Lost. Clean. She, the babyface, lost clean. See that's a problem because even if you wanted Alexa to win you have to keep the face strong in defeat. The best example is Dean Ambrose. He's lost a lot of matches but even after each loss he looks like a top tier talent. He rarely loses clean and even if someone beats him clean it doesn't hurt him one bit. That's years worth of character build and well him working with his character in general. They shouldn't have put Bayley, someone who's "damaged" (I'll break this down soon) against Bliss with that result in mind. 2. Bayley is damaged. A gimmick like that worked with the NXT fans but on the main roster not only are the fans different but she doesn't have the same development. She was damn near Eugene 2.0 in NXT but they used that to turn her into a superfan and had her go up against the other Horsewomen to build herself up. She had years of failure under her belt that the fans connected to so she could be pushed to that upper echelon. Without those years she wouldn't have gotten over even if she wrestled well and had the character she had at the end of her NXT run. Now imagine her being pushed to the main roster without anyone knowing about those years and seeing her struggle. Imagine them seeing her for the first time with her "yay she's having fun and happy" character. Now Bayley is damaged and she's been damaged since she stepped foot on the main roster especially if you have her as this great amazing superstar at the top that quick. Bayley should have started in the middle or as a sidekick and worked her way up because what made Bayley work wasn't her wrestling skills nor her character, what made Bayley work is that she had an upward climb and we connected to it. 3. She's stuck. Look at all the women on Raw when she moved up. Charlotte, Sasha, Nia and Paige. Now look at SDL and you see Becky, Nikki and Naomi. Since then you've seen Alexa, Carmella, Mickie and now Asuka step up to the plate. If you look at everything then it's no surprise that she's not given more spotlight because there's way too many out there who wrestle better than her, are better on the mic, have a better look than her, have more presence and also have better characters than her. It'll keep on keeping on. Bayley right now isn't the one. She's gotta switch up her gimmick to stop from being "buried" under the pile of women climbing over her. The sad part is that she's been Raw Women's Champion but given how she's been booked and how she's presented you guys remember Sheamus's WWE Title reign a few years ago where he feuded with Reigns over Bayley holding that belt. 4. Bayley's hype was too much. WON reports that they saw Bayley as the "next John Cena" and I shit you not when I say that's what I read in reports. They used that to compare how popular she is with young girls and then furthermore they looked at her time in NXT. I'm sorry but "the next John Cena" is something that you don't predict like that. You can't say "they're next up" if they're trying to be Big Match John. Putting that on Bayley's shoulders would weigh her down as soon as she stepped into the building. It's too much hype. It's like when they said Bleek was going to be the new and improved Jay-Z. Man nobody is overcoming that. 5. The. Bookers. In. This. Company. Are. Idiots. Simple as that. We can book better storylines than these guys so it's no surprise they can't even think of a simple concept like "maybe Bayley doesn't need to lose clean to the heel talking shit to her given it'll prove the bad guy was right." 6. She's too f***ing nice. Goes back to that Bliss feud. Bayley was too nice and she had no edge and people dislike that shit. Even Cena had a mean streak to him. He's a good guy but Cena's a dick. These days the bad guys and the anti-heroes rule over all. Every babyface has to have some type of edge to them otherwise they're f***ed and if a character is mega-nice and are somehow always happy then well...they're a heel. 7. They're keeping her a face. Yeah she's Bayley and all but turn this girl heel on some Bo Dallas shit and see how she does because this ain't working right now. She'll keep getting pushed down the card, booed more and she'll continue to look like a joke. If that doesn't work then hell, the final straw is... 8. They're keeping her on Raw. Ok. Raw is done. She needs new blood. Put her on SDL and put her against Charlotte, Becky, Carmella, SDL would do Bayley some good and honestly I hope she switches during the draft because she needs it. Overall it's a lot of different things. She was f***ed from day 1.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,088
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jan 5, 2018 20:50:59 GMT -5
This is another case of misinterpreted Meltzer.
If you listen to the show, it’s obvious that Dave isn’t offering this as actual news, but it’s just his opinion based on current booking. He wasn’t told anything or presenting this as news.
He’s simply surmising the company’s feelings based on how Bayley’s been portrayed.
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Post by Yacht Persona on Jan 5, 2018 21:20:44 GMT -5
Regardless of the truthfulness of this, the treatment of Bayley has been very depressing. She's sure fire money, but because old fossils still run the WWE and their writing staff isn't fit for daytime soap operas, we get shit.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 5, 2018 21:47:09 GMT -5
Hahahahahaha. Good. Bayley sucks.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,714
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 5, 2018 22:00:45 GMT -5
I wonder who else they have this attitude towards and who they'll screw around with until they leave WWE and make some other promotion big enough to challenge WWE's top spot. If only Bayley had a friend who was so indispensable to the success of Raw that, just before a rival promotion put on its biggest PPV of the year, WWE had no choice but to trot that friend out with two unusual partners just because they all once wrestled for that promotion at one point. Such a friend like that probably has WWE by the short and curlies and could probably help get Bayley into a better position.
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Toxik916
Hank Scorpio
Sacramento Proud
Posts: 6,207
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Post by Toxik916 on Jan 5, 2018 22:23:59 GMT -5
I like Bayley, but I can't say she deserves to be featured more in WWE. She just isn't main event material right now and that's ok.
Honestly you can't push everyone and unfortunately some talented people will get put on the back burner.
That's the problem I have with people criticizing WWE for not pushing their favorite superstars. Someone has to eat the pin and lose, fans are entitled and want everyone to get the participation trophy of an equal push.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jan 5, 2018 23:07:55 GMT -5
I think the most damning part of this is that we all more or less saw it coming. Up until she got called up, the recurring question here wasn't IF they'd muck it up, but HOW, and more importantly, how long it would take.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 5, 2018 23:52:09 GMT -5
This is another case of misinterpreted Meltzer. If you listen to the show, it’s obvious that Dave isn’t offering this as actual news, but it’s just his opinion based on current booking. He wasn’t told anything or presenting this as news. He’s simply surmising the company’s feelings based on how Bayley’s been portrayed. Image of Dave created the title names of all the threads here? Think of the names....
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 6, 2018 0:10:36 GMT -5
As I said before, Bayley was the everywoman on NXT, but the female Eugene on RAW. This is because the WWE cannot understand why people would cheer for a geek, despite the rest of pop culture having embraced that ages ago. WWE think that Stephanie is the everywoman because she's a "strong working mom". Yeah but no one in the WWE audience got to see Bayley's development in NXT that showed she was more than just a nerd. She got called up after her "coming of age" and didn't have the weird autistic vibes she had when she first debuted. Now she's just weirdo Bayley who won early and often, so there was no real reason to cheer her character. And if she came up as a total weirdo and a loser right away, people would be mad that she was getting buried after the push she got in NXT. They couldn't do anything with Bayley without making everything awkward and this is the end result. They tried to take away confidence from her character and instead she became a total loser instead of someone who wasn't sure of themselves.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 2:22:56 GMT -5
If Bayley would just wear shorts the ride up into a wedgie Vince would probably be into her. Character might be harder to pull off but Vince would notice god damn pal. Okay, this is off-topic but I have to ask - where does this whole "Vince calls people 'pal'" thing come from? I don't think I've ever once heard him say that word but I've seen it pop up in a bunch of different threads.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,889
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 6, 2018 3:54:12 GMT -5
If Bayley would just wear shorts the ride up into a wedgie Vince would probably be into her. Character might be harder to pull off but Vince would notice god damn pal. Okay, this is off-topic but I have to ask - where does this whole "Vince calls people 'pal'" thing come from? I don't think I've ever once heard him say that word but I've seen it pop up in a bunch of different threads. Bruce Prichard and his podcast.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 6, 2018 6:51:15 GMT -5
2015: Bayley is a sure thing in WWE, the ultimate underdog babyface, she sells herself, there's no way they can screw her up! 2017: ... And they seriously have no one to blame but themselves, her booking is some of the worst I've ever seen, and I imagine somewhere HHH is grinding his teeth a la Marge Simpson on how badly this pooch was screwed to the point they're seemingly just giving up. Like you wonder why everyone is scared for Asuka, THIS SHIT IS WHY. It is like that report that WWE didn't want to push Ambrose in the top spot because he is "damaged goods". WHO YOU THINK DAMAGED THE GOODS?!And both are easily fixed if they actually cared WWE is like those people that rip open a box at the store to see what's inside and then try and get a discount because its in damaged packaging, except they aren't even doing it on purpose
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Post by Baby, it’s Jes outside on Jan 6, 2018 7:10:52 GMT -5
I'm a Bayley Buddie for life!
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Jan 6, 2018 7:11:39 GMT -5
Honestly, Bayley got super over with the Florida NxT crowds, then that transitioned to tv because she was so over with the Full Sail crowd, so she was always over with the crowds when NXT travels because she was really over with Full Sail. BUT, the thing about Bayley- she gets over because she is a really good “indy” style worker. I don’t mean she is great at strong style, she is flippy, etc. But, she is great at playing to a live audience. She has a connection to the people therewatching here live, she gets the live crowd involved in her matches, etc. However, a good live crowd wrestler isn’t always a good tv wrestler. Basically, Bayley doesn’t seem as awesome watching her on Raw as she did when I would go watch her work in front of 100 people in Largo. That is bullshit. Bayley may have worked Shimmer but she doesn't wrestle an indy style at all. It was he character that got her over. The WWE she Vince are just useless at creating stars.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 7:47:10 GMT -5
People tend to be so hyperbolic about Bayley. She's either the greatest thing ever or she sucks. The truth is somewhere in between.
I enjoyed Bayley in NXT and thought she was talented and all. But I never understood the "Female John Cena" comparisons. John Cena has been a top star for 15 years and main evented multiple Wrestlemanias. You really see Bayley or any wrestler period living up to that?
Also, the character is very niche specific. As a grown man, I'm kind of over the whole "manic pixie dream girl" thing. If I was still in my awkward teenage years, I might have a crush on her. But now, I just think girls like that are kind of annoying.
I also think there's a bigger problem with NXT stars being big fishes in the little ponds. They're like the cool indie band playing a packed club in front of 500 fans. Once they get signed by a major label and are playing big generic arenas, it kind of loses its magic.
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