|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 7, 2018 11:43:24 GMT -5
He'll drop the belt to Kenny at Dominion, Kenny will drop it to Naito sometime before now and January, Okada wins the G1 to rematch Naito This seems like the logical step, in my mind anyway. Kenny gets the big win (and potentially keeps him around longer), Naito gets his big title win, Okada wins the G1 and sets up a main event where Naito's the king and you can either give Okada the win or put Naito on a higher level by beating Okada. Makes everyone look big and makes the heavyweight division look must see. |
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 7, 2018 11:46:40 GMT -5
Jerry Jarrett said that Vince McMahon taught him an invaluable, "narrow and focus the spotlight." There were much better workers than Hogan and Austin, probably even better promos and charisma. Unfortunately they didn't have that intangible factor that you can't put into words. There's only one spot as the main attraction. Yeah you're right that Okada's booking got stale, they'll probably switch the belt to a transitional champ but at the end they'll return to him. There's just something about the guy. Some magnetism. If this was a movie he would be the leading man with top billing. He's a generational talent. There's always one that breaks away from the pack. First was Inoki, then Hashimoto, then it should've been Yuji Nagata but Inoki ruined it, then it was Tanahashi. Now it's Okada's run. Unfortunately for Naito and Omega they're this generation Mutoh and Chono to Okada's Hashimoto. This is what I don't get though. I don't see that intangible it in Okada to the same level. Naito? In absolute spades. Omega? Maybe. Hell I see it in Hiromu Takahashi and even Sanada. But Okada it's just.....He's great but he doesn't have that X Factor to me, or at least not as much as Naito. I wish I felt it cos I'd enjoy NJPW so much more then. It's subjective and it's unfair. Randy Savage deserved a longer reign and not be the champion only because Hogan wanted to film movies. Rock was at times better than Austin but in my opinion he got the belt just because Austin got injured. I think what it comes down to is box office. There's just something in Okada that attracts the crowds. I can't explain it. In the present and immediate future he is the Ace. It's like Highlander. There can only be one. It seems that in njpw there are three candidates but only one can be the Ace. After Inoki was winding down, there were three guys Chono, Mutoh, and Hashimoto. Mutoh was the most popular one in the states, Chono had the better look and in my opinion workrate (his mentor was Lou Thesz), and Hashimoto realistically was a fat elvis impersonator looking guy, but for some strange reason Hashimoto became the Ace. The next three were Nakamura, Shibata, and Tanahashi. Nakamura is the most charismatic of the three and is more popular in America like Mutoh. Shibata was Inoki's wet dream of no nonsense strong style toughness fighting spirit, whereas Tanahashi's first claim to fame was that his girlfriend stabbed him, even Tanahashi admitted in his book that Nakamura and Shibata were better than him starting up. For some weird reason Tanahashi became the Ace. Now the current generation. Omega is the better worker and more popular worldwide, Naito is the most charismatic, but Okada is recognized as the current Ace. |
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Jan 7, 2018 12:28:53 GMT -5
This is what I don't get though. I don't see that intangible it in Okada to the same level. Naito? In absolute spades. Omega? Maybe. Hell I see it in Hiromu Takahashi and even Sanada. But Okada it's just.....He's great but he doesn't have that X Factor to me, or at least not as much as Naito. I wish I felt it cos I'd enjoy NJPW so much more then. It's subjective and it's unfair. Randy Savage deserved a longer reign and not be the champion only because Hogan wanted to film movies. Rock was at times better than Austin but in my opinion he got the belt just because Austin got injured. I think what it comes down to is box office. There's just something in Okada that attracts the crowds. I can't explain it. In the present and immediate future he is the Ace. It's like Highlander. There can only be one. It seems that in njpw there are three candidates but only one can be the Ace. After Inoki was winding down, there were three guys Chono, Mutoh, and Hashimoto. Mutoh was the most popular one in the states, Chono had the better look and in my opinion workrate (his mentor was Lou Thesz), and Hashimoto realistically was a fat elvis impersonator looking guy, but for some strange reason Hashimoto became the Ace. The next three were Nakamura, Shibata, and Tanahashi. Nakamura is the most charismatic of the three and is more popular in America like Mutoh. Shibata was Inoki's wet dream of no nonsense strong style toughness fighting spirit, whereas Tanahashi's first claim to fame was that his girlfriend stabbed him, even Tanahashi admitted in his book that Nakamura and Shibata were better than him starting up. For some weird reason Tanahashi became the Ace. Now the current generation. Omega is the better worker and more popular worldwide, Naito is the most charismatic, but Okada is recognized as the current Ace. I agree with Chono, Mutoh and Hashimoto. Although Hashimoto was a very good worker and his hard hitting "martial arts" style was going to be loved by Inoki. As far as Nakamura, Shibata and Tanahashi, you can't argue with Tanahashi as the best choice there. Shibata left several years before Tanahashi's mega push even began. Had he stayed, he would have an argument, but by time he came back, Okada was already the chosen one on his path to becoming the Ace. Nakamura was pretty freaking boring until he started CHAOS and became a heel. Tanahashi was the right and really only choice here. He drew very well(considering how badly Inoki damaged the company in the end) and got New Japan out of his dark period. He also turned out to be one of the best workers in the business and is very charismatic. |
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,640
|
Post by Fade on Jan 7, 2018 16:07:08 GMT -5
Jerry Jarrett said that Vince McMahon taught him an invaluable, "narrow and focus the spotlight." There were much better workers than Hogan and Austin, probably even better promos and charisma. Unfortunately they didn't have that intangible factor that you can't put into words. There's only one spot as the main attraction. Yeah you're right that Okada's booking got stale, they'll probably switch the belt to a transitional champ but at the end they'll return to him. There's just something about the guy. Some magnetism. If this was a movie he would be the leading man with top billing. He's a generational talent. There's always one that breaks away from the pack. First was Inoki, then Hashimoto, then it should've been Yuji Nagata but Inoki ruined it, then it was Tanahashi. Now it's Okada's run. Unfortunately for Naito and Omega they're this generation Mutoh and Chono to Okada's Hashimoto. This is what I don't get though. I don't see that intangible it in Okada to the same level. Naito? In absolute spades. Omega? Maybe. Hell I see it in Hiromu Takahashi and even Sanada. But Okada it's just.....He's great but he doesn't have that X Factor to me, or at least not as much as Naito. I wish I felt it cos I'd enjoy NJPW so much more then. If it's any consolation, I absolutely agree. And I REALLY like Okada. Like..probably Top 5, definitely Top 10 for me. Great athlete and look...but as a fan I enjoy so many other guys in New Japan more. Naito (style, charisma), Kenny (style, charisma), Shibata (style, presence), Tanahashi ( (presence, style..) etc etc etc...I guess you gotta Look at it from the company's standpoint: he's athletic. Reliable. Young. Good looking. He's like the character The Rock portrayed in '98: The perfect Corporate representative for a company: just a way better wrestler and way, way less charismatic (IMO) |
|
|
|
Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 7, 2018 18:16:39 GMT -5
This is what I don't get though. I don't see that intangible it in Okada to the same level. Naito? In absolute spades. Omega? Maybe. Hell I see it in Hiromu Takahashi and even Sanada. But Okada it's just.....He's great but he doesn't have that X Factor to me, or at least not as much as Naito. I wish I felt it cos I'd enjoy NJPW so much more then. It's subjective and it's unfair. Randy Savage deserved a longer reign and not be the champion only because Hogan wanted to film movies. Rock was at times better than Austin but in my opinion he got the belt just because Austin got injured. I think what it comes down to is box office. There's just something in Okada that attracts the crowds. I can't explain it. In the present and immediate future he is the Ace. It's like Highlander. There can only be one. It seems that in njpw there are three candidates but only one can be the Ace. After Inoki was winding down, there were three guys Chono, Mutoh, and Hashimoto. Mutoh was the most popular one in the states, Chono had the better look and in my opinion workrate (his mentor was Lou Thesz), and Hashimoto realistically was a fat elvis impersonator looking guy, but for some strange reason Hashimoto became the Ace. The next three were Nakamura, Shibata, and Tanahashi. Nakamura is the most charismatic of the three and is more popular in America like Mutoh. Shibata was Inoki's wet dream of no nonsense strong style toughness fighting spirit, whereas Tanahashi's first claim to fame was that his girlfriend stabbed him, even Tanahashi admitted in his book that Nakamura and Shibata were better than him starting up. For some weird reason Tanahashi became the Ace. Now the current generation. Omega is the better worker and more popular worldwide, Naito is the most charismatic, but Okada is recognized as the current Ace. It's funny how things work out, you're right. Mutoh is my dude for the early 90s New Japan but Chono from about 95, 96 onwards. Shinya I always liked but never quite the same. Of Shibata/Nakamura/Tanahashi that's a tough one, I love all 3 now, but at the time Shibata and Nakamura were leagues behind Tanahashi. I sort of fell off track with New Japan during their era until recently and it shocked me catching up and seeing the guy Nakamura became compared to the way he was when I last saw him in 2005, 2006. Tana was the clear choice to be the Ace of those 3, even if you could argue Nakamura briefly peaked a little higher eventually. Honestly, it's not a major complaint for me that Okada's the guy given how good the overall product is, just that yeah, of the current 3 top guys in New Japan he's 3rd for me. Tenzan was a dude I was huge on during his brief time at the top of the card, for some reason, and durng NOAH's prime years my favourites were Sasaki of the heavyweights and Ishimori for the juniors, so I'm aware I sometimes have strange picks for who my guy is. |
|
|
|
Post by RedSmile on Jan 7, 2018 18:44:04 GMT -5
I predict that this is the year that being an "unbeatable Ace" goes to Okada's head, and we see a more heelish Okada. I say this because over the past 12 months, or so, Omega and Naito both have slowly turned more and more face.
I envision Naito going to war with Jericho and then winning the New Japan Cup to earn his rematch with Okada. I believe, then, that Naito will win this rematch, and I really, REALLY want Okada to feud with Jericho after that.
|
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt: What Plants Crave on Jan 7, 2018 21:29:57 GMT -5
As a casual NJPW fan, has there ever been any backlash that Gedo is head booker, but also Okada's annoying manager, and also books Okada like 2006 John Cena?
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 8, 2018 1:55:22 GMT -5
As a casual NJPW fan, has there ever been any backlash that Gedo is head booker, but also Okada's annoying manager, and also books Okada like 2006 John Cena? During his last reign which was close to a year People were getting sick of Okada and when Naito beat him it was a breath of fresh air but then he won the title back 2 months later people were pissed. It helps that Okada is an all time talent but it took this title reign for Okada to "rebuild his value" again because of how much work he put in as champ and the crazy matches he was having time after time Has there been outright hatred from the fans to Okada, nah we aren't there yet. But that's more so everyone is willing to see what the end goal is. It also helps that Gedo will have Okada embrace the boos and he can work heel in his matches. His natural cocky nature gets him in trouble in the ring sometimes so he knows how to ramp up the aggressiveness and keep the match entertaining. At 30 years old he has almost every record you can have as the champ so it will be interesting to see what his direction is without the title because the last time he went without the title for 2 years was before he was full on Ace status. |
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt: What Plants Crave on Jan 8, 2018 2:17:00 GMT -5
As a casual NJPW fan, has there ever been any backlash that Gedo is head booker, but also Okada's annoying manager, and also books Okada like 2006 John Cena? During his last reign which was close to a year People were getting sick of Okada and when Naito beat him it was a breath of fresh air but then he won the title back 2 months later people were pissed. It helps that Okada is an all time talent but it took this title reign for Okada to "rebuild his value" again because of how much work he put in as champ and the crazy matches he was having time after time Has there been outright hatred from the fans to Okada, nah we aren't there yet. But that's more so everyone is willing to see what the end goal is. It also helps that Gedo will have Okada embrace the boos and he can work heel in his matches. His natural cocky nature gets him in trouble in the ring sometimes so he knows how to ramp up the aggressiveness and keep the match entertaining. At 30 years old he has almost every record you can have as the champ so it will be interesting to see what his direction is without the title because the last time he went without the title for 2 years was before he was full on Ace status. Gotcha, and thanks! I've followed it since WK 9 off and on, and I was sick of Okada's run before Naito won it, and kinda just dropped off for a bit after Okada won it back. I agree his matches have been stellar, but I always found it curious that Gedo was his manager, and also the booker making him look like a world beater. But they need their next Tanahashi so I suppose it makes sense, even if I disagree with the outcome of WK12. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 8, 2018 12:24:37 GMT -5
During his last reign which was close to a year People were getting sick of Okada and when Naito beat him it was a breath of fresh air but then he won the title back 2 months later people were pissed. It helps that Okada is an all time talent but it took this title reign for Okada to "rebuild his value" again because of how much work he put in as champ and the crazy matches he was having time after time Has there been outright hatred from the fans to Okada, nah we aren't there yet. But that's more so everyone is willing to see what the end goal is. It also helps that Gedo will have Okada embrace the boos and he can work heel in his matches. His natural cocky nature gets him in trouble in the ring sometimes so he knows how to ramp up the aggressiveness and keep the match entertaining. At 30 years old he has almost every record you can have as the champ so it will be interesting to see what his direction is without the title because the last time he went without the title for 2 years was before he was full on Ace status. Gotcha, and thanks! I've followed it since WK 9 off and on, and I was sick of Okada's run before Naito won it, and kinda just dropped off for a bit after Okada won it back. I agree his matches have been stellar, but I always found it curious that Gedo was his manager, and also the booker making him look like a world beater. But they need their next Tanahashi so I suppose it makes sense, even if I disagree with the outcome of WK12. Well the thing is Gedo isn't shy about him hitching his wagon to Okada and because they are all the way truthful with it, it gets sort of a pass but obviously you got people who aren't going to like it because it makes Gedo seem impartial. Don't get me wrong I disagree with the outcome as at this point Okada has defeated the two hottest guys in the last two Wrestle Kingdoms plus going back to 10 he put his stamp on being the Ace with defeating Tanahashi so he's beaten everyone more than a few times over. However, Gedo has the trust because he books everyone else well and they do get their time to shine against Okada but obviously we are still in the wait and see game as far as what's the big picture because no matter what Okada will be main eventing Wrestle Kingdom again but it will be either as a challenger or champion |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 8, 2018 15:02:19 GMT -5
During his last reign which was close to a year People were getting sick of Okada and when Naito beat him it was a breath of fresh air but then he won the title back 2 months later people were pissed. It helps that Okada is an all time talent but it took this title reign for Okada to "rebuild his value" again because of how much work he put in as champ and the crazy matches he was having time after time Has there been outright hatred from the fans to Okada, nah we aren't there yet. But that's more so everyone is willing to see what the end goal is. It also helps that Gedo will have Okada embrace the boos and he can work heel in his matches. His natural cocky nature gets him in trouble in the ring sometimes so he knows how to ramp up the aggressiveness and keep the match entertaining. At 30 years old he has almost every record you can have as the champ so it will be interesting to see what his direction is without the title because the last time he went without the title for 2 years was before he was full on Ace status. Gotcha, and thanks! I've followed it since WK 9 off and on, and I was sick of Okada's run before Naito won it, and kinda just dropped off for a bit after Okada won it back. I agree his matches have been stellar, but I always found it curious that Gedo was his manager, and also the booker making him look like a world beater. But they need their next Tanahashi so I suppose it makes sense, even if I disagree with the outcome of WK12. If I have my history right, Gedo managing Okada was actually a pretty calculated move: for one, they had all the faith in the world in Okada's abilities but as a kid he didn't have his promo abilities down yet, so Gedo could be his mic guy, a role he doesn't have to play nearly as much now that Okada is a comfortable speaker. It went deeper, though: when Bushiroad bought NJPW their first goal was to establish Okada as the top heel and Naito as the top face (well, as stark as "heel" or "face" gets when you talk about main event scenes in Japan). Gedo's booking Okada's first title win as an utter shock in his first month back from excursion was an obvious booking move that told the fans "this is who the office is getting behind", and they calculated that it could lead to some harsh fan backlash. So, before the fans really had a chance to process what was happening and potentially start crapping on this young upstart that was getting a golden insta-push, they put Gedo with him because, hey...Okada was a heel, and this is a way of saying "yep, the office IS behind the kid, and this makes it obvious", since the fans knew Gedo was booking. This hung a lampshade on that issue, and as Okada's performances kept getting better his reception from the fans got more and more positive, especially as the Tanahashi rivalry took off. In a way, it's probably what WWE should've done with Roman: acknowledge that, yep, he's the office's "chosen one", and go all-out and make Triple H his manager, let fans boo him but then let them come around to him over time. |
|
|
|
Post by Aboutreika18 on Jan 8, 2018 15:09:06 GMT -5
Gotcha, and thanks! I've followed it since WK 9 off and on, and I was sick of Okada's run before Naito won it, and kinda just dropped off for a bit after Okada won it back. I agree his matches have been stellar, but I always found it curious that Gedo was his manager, and also the booker making him look like a world beater. But they need their next Tanahashi so I suppose it makes sense, even if I disagree with the outcome of WK12. If I have my history right, Gedo managing Okada was actually a pretty calculated move: for one, they had all the faith in the world in Okada's abilities but as a kid he didn't have his promo abilities down yet, so Gedo could be his mic guy, a role he doesn't have to play nearly as much now that Okada is a comfortable speaker. It went deeper, though: when Bushiroad bought NJPW their first goal was to establish Okada as the top heel and Naito as the top face (well, as stark as "heel" or "face" gets when you talk about main event scenes in Japan). Gedo's booking Okada's first title win as an utter shock in his first month back from excursion was an obvious booking move that told the fans "this is who the office is getting behind", and they calculated that it could lead to some harsh fan backlash. So, before the fans really had a chance to process what was happening and potentially start crapping on this young upstart that was getting a golden insta-push, they put Gedo with him because, hey...Okada was a heel, and this is a way of saying "yep, the office IS behind the kid, and this makes it obvious", since the fans knew Gedo was booking. This hung a lampshade on that issue, and as Okada's performances kept getting better his reception from the fans got more and more positive, especially as the Tanahashi rivalry took off. In a way, it's probably what WWE should've done with Roman: acknowledge that, yep, he's the office's "chosen one", and go all-out and make Triple H his manager, let fans boo him but then let them come around to him over time. Yep, I don't know why some people are complaining that pairing Okada with Gedo makes him look the booker's favourite, when that's exactly what they've been going for since Day 1, especially when he was up against the perennial fan's favourite Tanahashi. I've seen this idea brought up by one of the NJPW YouTubers but what's your take on them potentially trying to get Okada to equal or even break Tanahashi's 5 title match wins in a row at Wrestle Kingdom? |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 8, 2018 16:25:57 GMT -5
If I have my history right, Gedo managing Okada was actually a pretty calculated move: for one, they had all the faith in the world in Okada's abilities but as a kid he didn't have his promo abilities down yet, so Gedo could be his mic guy, a role he doesn't have to play nearly as much now that Okada is a comfortable speaker. It went deeper, though: when Bushiroad bought NJPW their first goal was to establish Okada as the top heel and Naito as the top face (well, as stark as "heel" or "face" gets when you talk about main event scenes in Japan). Gedo's booking Okada's first title win as an utter shock in his first month back from excursion was an obvious booking move that told the fans "this is who the office is getting behind", and they calculated that it could lead to some harsh fan backlash. So, before the fans really had a chance to process what was happening and potentially start crapping on this young upstart that was getting a golden insta-push, they put Gedo with him because, hey...Okada was a heel, and this is a way of saying "yep, the office IS behind the kid, and this makes it obvious", since the fans knew Gedo was booking. This hung a lampshade on that issue, and as Okada's performances kept getting better his reception from the fans got more and more positive, especially as the Tanahashi rivalry took off. In a way, it's probably what WWE should've done with Roman: acknowledge that, yep, he's the office's "chosen one", and go all-out and make Triple H his manager, let fans boo him but then let them come around to him over time. I've seen this idea brought up by one of the NJPW YouTubers but what's your take on them potentially trying to get Okada to equal or even break Tanahashi's 5 title match wins in a row at Wrestle Kingdom? There's a good chance it could happen considering if Okada losses the belt he will still main event Wrestle Kingdom to get it back. So far he's defended it twice in a row and one it once for 3 straight events. Tanahashi also had a IC title win in there over Shinsuke so I can see that happening with Okada as well or the U.S. title |
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jan 8, 2018 16:44:29 GMT -5
Gotcha, and thanks! I've followed it since WK 9 off and on, and I was sick of Okada's run before Naito won it, and kinda just dropped off for a bit after Okada won it back. I agree his matches have been stellar, but I always found it curious that Gedo was his manager, and also the booker making him look like a world beater. But they need their next Tanahashi so I suppose it makes sense, even if I disagree with the outcome of WK12. If I have my history right, Gedo managing Okada was actually a pretty calculated move: for one, they had all the faith in the world in Okada's abilities but as a kid he didn't have his promo abilities down yet, so Gedo could be his mic guy, a role he doesn't have to play nearly as much now that Okada is a comfortable speaker. It went deeper, though: when Bushiroad bought NJPW their first goal was to establish Okada as the top heel and Naito as the top face (well, as stark as "heel" or "face" gets when you talk about main event scenes in Japan). Gedo's booking Okada's first title win as an utter shock in his first month back from excursion was an obvious booking move that told the fans "this is who the office is getting behind", and they calculated that it could lead to some harsh fan backlash. So, before the fans really had a chance to process what was happening and potentially start crapping on this young upstart that was getting a golden insta-push, they put Gedo with him because, hey...Okada was a heel, and this is a way of saying "yep, the office IS behind the kid, and this makes it obvious", since the fans knew Gedo was booking. This hung a lampshade on that issue, and as Okada's performances kept getting better his reception from the fans got more and more positive, especially as the Tanahashi rivalry took off. In a way, it's probably what WWE should've done with Roman: acknowledge that, yep, he's the office's "chosen one", and go all-out and make Triple H his manager, let fans boo him but then let them come around to him over time. In retrospect, I think WWE booking Rollins to win the title at WM31 was a mistake. That's the moment they should have decisively put Brock over Roman, a clear win to say to the fans, "You think Roman is going to be the next top guy? You're damn right." He's not a "chaser" character. Maybe if not necessarily give Roman a manager, I'd at least have booked him to go on a 10-month reign minimum. I'd have Reigns go damn near undefeated in 2015, so fans can get those really visceral reactions towards him out of their systems. Because eventually, the sentiment among the fans would turn from "ugh, I don't Reigns shoved down my throat" to "damn, Reigns is beating everyone, who can stop him?" They made a big mistake when they tried to push him as a plucky underdog for that one chunk of time. It damaged his aura, and he felt a lot more disingenuous afterwards. The way Gedo handled Okada in not denying how NJPW sees him comes off more...frank, I guess? I do agree it's a good example of the direction they should have went with Reigns. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 8, 2018 19:03:16 GMT -5
If I have my history right, Gedo managing Okada was actually a pretty calculated move: for one, they had all the faith in the world in Okada's abilities but as a kid he didn't have his promo abilities down yet, so Gedo could be his mic guy, a role he doesn't have to play nearly as much now that Okada is a comfortable speaker. It went deeper, though: when Bushiroad bought NJPW their first goal was to establish Okada as the top heel and Naito as the top face (well, as stark as "heel" or "face" gets when you talk about main event scenes in Japan). Gedo's booking Okada's first title win as an utter shock in his first month back from excursion was an obvious booking move that told the fans "this is who the office is getting behind", and they calculated that it could lead to some harsh fan backlash. So, before the fans really had a chance to process what was happening and potentially start crapping on this young upstart that was getting a golden insta-push, they put Gedo with him because, hey...Okada was a heel, and this is a way of saying "yep, the office IS behind the kid, and this makes it obvious", since the fans knew Gedo was booking. This hung a lampshade on that issue, and as Okada's performances kept getting better his reception from the fans got more and more positive, especially as the Tanahashi rivalry took off. In a way, it's probably what WWE should've done with Roman: acknowledge that, yep, he's the office's "chosen one", and go all-out and make Triple H his manager, let fans boo him but then let them come around to him over time. In retrospect, I think WWE booking Rollins to win the title at WM31 was a mistake. That's the moment they should have decisively put Brock over Roman, a clear win to say to the fans, "You think Roman is going to be the next top guy? You're damn right." He's not a "chaser" character. Maybe if not necessarily give Roman a manager, I'd at least have booked him to go on a 10-month reign minimum. I'd have Reigns go damn near undefeated in 2015, so fans can get those really visceral reactions towards him out of their systems. Because eventually, the sentiment among the fans would turn from "ugh, I don't Reigns shoved down my throat" to "damn, Reigns is beating everyone, who can stop him?" They made a big mistake when they tried to push him as a plucky underdog for that one chunk of time. It damaged his aura, and he felt a lot more disingenuous afterwards. The way Gedo handled Okada in not denying how NJPW sees him comes off more...frank, I guess? I do agree it's a good example of the direction they should have went with Reigns. You do bring up a good point about Reigns but I still think either way fans would have bitched even more because that's what they do regardless of who's on top. If you could have went another direction instead of the Rollins cash in, yes Reigns should have won like he was going to and have a dominant reign as champ to set him up as THE guy along with Rollins and Ambrose being his 1Bs. However, they did create a moment they can never do again with MITB getting cashed in at Mania but they couldn't keep up the momentum with Rollins in which he seemed to be neutered as a weapon without the Curb stomp I think WWE is starting to learn their lesson in letting Reigns be Reigns but they could take pointers in how NJPW books Okada. Despite him being the face he does lead and dominate his matches from time to time in which his cockiness or just opponent savy puts him at a disadvantage sometimes. They need to start doing that with Reigns in regards to using his "wild nature" as a tool for him in which he can lead matches and dominate like he's supposed to |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 8, 2018 19:17:35 GMT -5
In retrospect, I think WWE booking Rollins to win the title at WM31 was a mistake. That's the moment they should have decisively put Brock over Roman, a clear win to say to the fans, "You think Roman is going to be the next top guy? You're damn right." He's not a "chaser" character. Maybe if not necessarily give Roman a manager, I'd at least have booked him to go on a 10-month reign minimum. I'd have Reigns go damn near undefeated in 2015, so fans can get those really visceral reactions towards him out of their systems. Because eventually, the sentiment among the fans would turn from "ugh, I don't Reigns shoved down my throat" to "damn, Reigns is beating everyone, who can stop him?" They made a big mistake when they tried to push him as a plucky underdog for that one chunk of time. It damaged his aura, and he felt a lot more disingenuous afterwards. The way Gedo handled Okada in not denying how NJPW sees him comes off more...frank, I guess? I do agree it's a good example of the direction they should have went with Reigns. You do bring up a good point about Reigns but I still think either way fans would have bitched even more because that's what they do regardless of who's on top. If you could have went another direction instead of the Rollins cash in, yes Reigns should have won like he was going to and have a dominant reign as champ to set him up as THE guy along with Rollins and Ambrose being his 1Bs. However, they did create a moment they can never do again with MITB getting cashed in at Mania but they couldn't keep up the momentum with Rollins in which he seemed to be neutered as a weapon without the Curb stomp I think WWE is starting to learn their lesson in letting Reigns be Reigns but they could take pointers in how NJPW books Okada. Despite him being the face he does lead and dominate his matches from time to time in which his cockiness or just opponent savy puts him at a disadvantage sometimes. They need to start doing that with Reigns in regards to using his "wild nature" as a tool for him in which he can lead matches and dominate like he's supposed to It's tough to make a 1:1 comparison, if just because the circumstances are so different in each company. WWE has the unfortunate problem it's made for itself where it's spent nearly 20 years telling fans that the promotion itself (embodied by Vince and the McMahon family) is the show's biggest heel, thus making any "chosen champions" something to be wary of, an issue NJPW really doesn't have. Roman's rise was also tough because of how it coincided with what felt like a slap in the face to the fans, denying them Bryan's return to the top; while Okada returned to a NJPW where Tanahashi was top dog, it's not like Okada immediately knocked him off his perch, and Tana had been ace for a nice handful of years before Okada showed back up at WK 6 whereas Bryan's spot atop WWE always felt more tenuous given how he'd been booked for so long. But yes, on the whole I agree that the better answer is just about always to let your top stars be themselves, play up that they do have flaws that can bite them, and if it means fans have to learn to adjust a bit to them then so be it, you're supposedly picking this guy to be on top because you have faith in his abilities, anyway. Unfortunately Vince gets way too caught up in all of his top stars having to be like the Rock (hence all the awful, jokey promos they had Roman do pre-Rumble 2015), and in not allowing them to show major weaknesses or character development (the major complaint about Cena when he'd go through somewhat difficult times in kayfabe). |
|
|
|
Post by honsou on Jan 8, 2018 21:17:54 GMT -5
I think if Okada were even just slightly worse than he is, there would be a much bigger backlash about how hes booked. I remember feeling kinda crappy about his run when he beat Suzuki at New Beginnings (I had just really got into NJPW and now that feels silly) but immediately after that he has another amazing match and I completely forgot about that feeling. It also helps that the IC and to a lesser degree the NEVER belt actually feel like big belts so that if your favorite loses against Okada and goes for those belts it isn't really that big of a demotion.
As for what Okada's 2018 actually looks like? Well he'll face SANADA at New Beginnings which is a 100% guaranteed win for him. One thing he did have going for him in 2017 is that most of the people he faced with few exceptions people could believe have had a shot at taking the title off of him. He really needs to be up against wrestlers people actually believe have a shot against him.
|
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jan 9, 2018 4:16:54 GMT -5
You do bring up a good point about Reigns but I still think either way fans would have bitched even more because that's what they do regardless of who's on top. If you could have went another direction instead of the Rollins cash in, yes Reigns should have won like he was going to and have a dominant reign as champ to set him up as THE guy along with Rollins and Ambrose being his 1Bs. However, they did create a moment they can never do again with MITB getting cashed in at Mania but they couldn't keep up the momentum with Rollins in which he seemed to be neutered as a weapon without the Curb stomp I think WWE is starting to learn their lesson in letting Reigns be Reigns but they could take pointers in how NJPW books Okada. Despite him being the face he does lead and dominate his matches from time to time in which his cockiness or just opponent savy puts him at a disadvantage sometimes. They need to start doing that with Reigns in regards to using his "wild nature" as a tool for him in which he can lead matches and dominate like he's supposed to It's tough to make a 1:1 comparison, if just because the circumstances are so different in each company. WWE has the unfortunate problem it's made for itself where it's spent nearly 20 years telling fans that the promotion itself (embodied by Vince and the McMahon family) is the show's biggest heel, thus making any "chosen champions" something to be wary of, an issue NJPW really doesn't have. Roman's rise was also tough because of how it coincided with what felt like a slap in the face to the fans, denying them Bryan's return to the top; while Okada returned to a NJPW where Tanahashi was top dog, it's not like Okada immediately knocked him off his perch, and Tana had been ace for a nice handful of years before Okada showed back up at WK 6 whereas Bryan's spot atop WWE always felt more tenuous given how he'd been booked for so long. But yes, on the whole I agree that the better answer is just about always to let your top stars be themselves, play up that they do have flaws that can bite them, and if it means fans have to learn to adjust a bit to them then so be it, you're supposedly picking this guy to be on top because you have faith in his abilities, anyway. Unfortunately Vince gets way too caught up in all of his top stars having to be like the Rock (hence all the awful, jokey promos they had Roman do pre-Rumble 2015), and in not allowing them to show major weaknesses or character development (the major complaint about Cena when he'd go through somewhat difficult times in kayfabe). Honestly, I don't think it's the flaws top ace wrestlers have that sell tickets. I'm starting to believe some fans get wrapped up in wanting to see wrestlers rise up from nothing to world title status, to the point where promotions will overcompensate. That results in even-steven booking. I know Okada's had stories where he fell into funks and had to find himself again, as did Cena in many of his stories, but there's more merit than not in making your superstars look like cool badasses. If I'm a booker, why wouldn't I want my stars to come off like the most awesome people that ever walked the earth? |
|
|
|
Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 9, 2018 9:48:29 GMT -5
I've seen this idea brought up by one of the NJPW YouTubers but what's your take on them potentially trying to get Okada to equal or even break Tanahashi's 5 title match wins in a row at Wrestle Kingdom? There's a good chance it could happen considering if Okada losses the belt he will still main event Wrestle Kingdom to get it back. So far he's defended it twice in a row and one it once for 3 straight events. Tanahashi also had a IC title win in there over Shinsuke so I can see that happening with Okada as well or the U.S. title I'd honestly have inverted this part of Naito's arc, had him beat Okada but then start to live in the moment and love his success let the Stardust Genius creep back in and he loses to Omega either at the Dome next year with Okada in an IC match, or at Dominion while Okada wins the G1, and have a triple threat. I'd still be tempted to go with the triple threat actually. New Japan never books them but if the time was ever right for an IWGP three way dance it's while Omega and and Naito are red hot and Okada is still the Ace. Plus that main event would do a bomb in the Dome. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 9, 2018 14:14:23 GMT -5
There's a good chance it could happen considering if Okada losses the belt he will still main event Wrestle Kingdom to get it back. So far he's defended it twice in a row and one it once for 3 straight events. Tanahashi also had a IC title win in there over Shinsuke so I can see that happening with Okada as well or the U.S. title I'd honestly have inverted this part of Naito's arc, had him beat Okada but then start to live in the moment and love his success let the Stardust Genius creep back in and he loses to Omega either at the Dome next year with Okada in an IC match, or at Dominion while Okada wins the G1, and have a triple threat. I'd still be tempted to go with the triple threat actually. New Japan never books them but if the time was ever right for an IWGP three way dance it's while Omega and and Naito are red hot and Okada is still the Ace. Plus that main event would do a bomb in the Dome. Yea, every year they are incorporating more stuff and a triple threat for the title would be a damn good idea. Now, how do we get there, who f***ing knows but I would def like to see it as you got the story of Omega and Naito trading W/L's over the last two G1s to win and neither has been successful in taking the title off Okada at WK but Naito can still hold on to the fact he beat Okada for the title once before However, the flip side is you essentially lose 2 to 3 matches without those guys so you have to find a way to feel the gap. Luckily you still got Tanahashi (he needs to get healthy), Goto, Suzuki, etc.... to be able to steady the ship if they need them for I.C, U.S. or NEVER title matches |
|
:format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/61946227/Dqpaz_iVsAA04LW.0.jpg)
