When did the quality of WWE programming go down for you?

[riseofsetian1981]

For me I think the quality started to dip after the tragedies of Guerrero and Benoit. I honestly don't think WWE ever recovered from a quality and personal standpoint either.

[Deleted]

It hasn't. It's changed a lot in style and presentation but the quality has improved on the whole if anything.

The only periods I remember enjoying more are mid 97, McMahon-Helmsley faction era, and the reign of terror (sorry, I loved it) but the roster and match quality wasnt in the same universe then as it is now. Far more likeable irlguys as well and a stronger women's division.

I'd say it's rarely been bettered.

[Big Poppa Pumpkin]

Around 2003 when they started overly scripting promos, then again in the mid-00s when Eddie and Benoit died, then again in the late-00s with guest hosts and "The WWE Universe", etc.

Match quality has improved year on year, albeit in a homogenous way where a lot of the guys are having very similar kind of matches. presentation has been stale for years and their ability to present interesting characters and tell a compelling story from start to finish is at an all time low imo

[crowley1986]

After Mania 18, consistency of the shows from 1997 when i started watching I felt it dropped, came back in good from Rumbles to Mania/april PPV and I used to watch every ppvs though that period and stopped watching every ppv from 2010, where I just watched the main ones and any interesting b level ones

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 12, 2018 22:03:14 GMT -5 @conebone69 said:

Definitely 2001. The Angle milk truck segment, which I believe had the Alliance singing to Austin in the ring right before it, was a huge Jump the Shark moment for me. That year had a bunch of those moments, but that one really stands out.

2002, especially after the brand split, was the nail in the coffin.

Yup, I’ll agree here. Brand Split 1.0.

[lavelleuk]

I'm a weird one as I've always been more of a fan of some wrestlers rather than a wrestling fan, if that makes sense?

However, and strangely I was thinking about this last night, the first time I remember wondering why I still bother watching was when John Morrison (I think) was calling dolph ziggler "Mr ziggles"

It was maybe the most pathetic and lamest thing I'd heard but they kept doing it. Such a small thing that made me realise Wwe just wasn't for me anymore

[FAR5222]

There was always ups and downs but for me the number one reason is pretty much Daniel Bryan post Mania 30. I don't care for the show and just seek out a handful of clips of people I still enjoy.

[Deleted]

There’s a few reasons I don’t watch anymore... I’m half asleep so this might sound like rambling.

HBK, Edge, Punk, Jericho, leaving.

Even if the rest of the show was crap it was just great to see my favorites. Guys I followed their entire careers. Jericho and HBK helped me great through the reign of terror.

Brock was another one of my favorites and I was soo excited to see him return, but Suplex City has really soured me on him.

And Sting another one of my favorites.. Eve though I enjoyed his Mania match (as a fan of Sting, the guy just never cared about his win/loss record) the rest was a bit of a let down to say the least.

I want to get into Dean, Finn, Bray, and others but the booking at this point is awful. A great match is fine, but if I can’t have a good reason why these guys are fighting what’s the point.

The three hour Raws was the last straw. I think it had been background noise for years sticking my head up for my favs or something interesting. But since my roommate cut the cable I don’t even miss it.

I’m ppvs only at this point, even then there’s one or two matches I’ll actually watch.

Oh and dividing the giant roster into four smaller ones just makes the shows even more repetitive.

As long as I can remember I knew every wrestler on the roster, and now I play 2k18 and I have no idea who the f*** Nick Miller is.

[Bo Rida]

I'll take early 2000 as the peak, then the piss poor end to the love triangle started the decline.

Not only was it the start of casual fans drifting away but it started the trend for poor story-telling, we've had many anti-climatic and dropped angles since.

[Mid-Carder]

Wrestling's creative and mainstream peak ended when they stupidly turned Austin heel at 17 and the quality started to dip from there. It dipped further once they refused to let Punk and then Bryan, the two guys who genuinely galvanised wrestling again, overtake their forced Chosen One Cena.

I have completely given up on any improvement now.

[TheMediocreWarrior]

My interest in WWE has had its ups and downs, but lately I was really optimistic about WWE from about 2014-2016. NXT was going really strong, and I felt like WWE had an excellent group of future stars.

Then over the last couple of years, as they've been called up, I've realized that the WWE creative team is going to eventually drop the ball with them. Bayley getting buried in that kendo stick match was total BS and a huge waste. WWE has a very talented roster, but I think the writing team needs to either rethink how they approach the shows, or they need a new writing team.

[Feargus McReddit]

Jan 12, 2018 13:50:55 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Its had ups and downs, but I recall in the Raw Supershow era a gradual eerie sameness and formula starting to settle in that I think Raw (and to a lesser degree SD) has never quite escaped from. Its the time in which I couldn't really justify doing any sort of consistent viewing of the show anymore.

I think this is where I see it too, to be honest. Like, at the very least, Raw and Smackdown before those times would shake up the formula or have new people in charge to make it feel somewhat fresh. Especially when Heyman ran Smackdown or Bischoff was GM.

Now you can map most shows to a T since then. GM comes out, everyone comes out and says their bit, GM makes match involving all those guys (because nobody books a show in advance much anymore), we go from there.

It’s not a coincidence ratings have gone down over the years. You can’t make stars when you’re stuck in the same things over again. And even when you change it up, that lasts a week to set up the NEXT set of same old stuff.

[arrogantmodel]

Probably when they pushed Cena to infinity and beyond. Dude is beating Angle, Benoit, Edge, Jericho, etc. Getting booed out of every building. Doing lame ass jokes. The same matches over and over. But Vince and company were like, "Screw the fans."

It became so insanely stale and predictable. Just like with Roman now. I remember somebody had stats for when he was US champ and took on some variation of Jericho and Owens on Raw every Monday for like three months straight.

The "Anything can happen in the WWE" died a long time ago.

[BorneAgain]

Jan 13, 2018 9:11:10 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

Jan 12, 2018 13:50:55 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Its had ups and downs, but I recall in the Raw Supershow era a gradual eerie sameness and formula starting to settle in that I think Raw (and to a lesser degree SD) has never quite escaped from. Its the time in which I couldn't really justify doing any sort of consistent viewing of the show anymore.

I think this is where I see it too, to be honest. Like, at the very least, Raw and Smackdown before those times would shake up the formula or have new people in charge to make it feel somewhat fresh. Especially when Heyman ran Smackdown or Bischoff was GM.

Now you can map most shows to a T since then. GM comes out, everyone comes out and says their bit, GM makes match involving all those guys (because nobody books a show in advance much anymore), we go from there.

It’s not a coincidence ratings have gone down over the years. You can’t make stars when you’re stuck in the same things over again. And even when you change it up, that lasts a week to set up the NEXT set of same old stuff.

It doesn't help that in spite of the actual roster changing, the use of the talent didn't. Watch four weeks of Raw, and you can basically figure out the exact roles people have pretty consistently for the rest of the year. Throw in the massive overuse of cliches and tropes (a dive before a commercial break "as Raw rolls on", segment where a wrestler annoys/is berated by an authority figure, distraction leading to rollup finish, a beatdown because so and so is sending a message to so and so) and you have a show that just feels booked by an un-creative EWR player.

At times it gets to the point where even stupid stuff becomes welcome because for no other reasion its a change to the formula. The Grumpy Cat episode from a few years ago was an asinine attempt at celebrity, but it was something different at least.

[Milkman Norm]

It's not a quality thing per se. It's that I don't connect to anyone on the show anymore or if I do (for years) it was made clear that I wan't supposed to. Plus it seems like everything is just kinda.... dumb. Or at least the majority of stuff.

[Feargus McReddit]

Jan 13, 2018 9:30:47 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Jan 13, 2018 9:11:10 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

I think this is where I see it too, to be honest. Like, at the very least, Raw and Smackdown before those times would shake up the formula or have new people in charge to make it feel somewhat fresh. Especially when Heyman ran Smackdown or Bischoff was GM.

Now you can map most shows to a T since then. GM comes out, everyone comes out and says their bit, GM makes match involving all those guys (because nobody books a show in advance much anymore), we go from there.

It’s not a coincidence ratings have gone down over the years. You can’t make stars when you’re stuck in the same things over again. And even when you change it up, that lasts a week to set up the NEXT set of same old stuff.

It doesn't help that in spite of the actual roster changing, the use of the talent didn't. Watch four weeks of Raw, and you can basically figure out the exact roles people have pretty consistently for the rest of the year. Throw in the massive overuse of cliches and tropes (a dive before a commercial break "as Raw rolls on", segment where a wrestler annoys/is berated by an authority figure, distraction leading to rollup finish, a beatdown because so and so is sending a message to so and so) and you have a show that just feels booked by an un-creative EWR player.

At times it gets to the point where even stupid stuff becomes welcome because for no other reasion its a change to the formula. The Grumpy Cat episode from a few years ago was an asinine attempt at celebrity, but it was something different at least.

The bit about roles is genuinely one of my pet peeves in the last few years. Besides AJ, people are usually called up to fit a role that they had for another superstar years ago or a type of role rather than because they want their talents utilised there. Like, as good as Joe is, he’s in the role of tough dude with submissions that others are there for and not because he’s Samoa Joe. Heck, they couldn’t decide if he was HHH’s goon or not because it didn’t really matter. Most of Smackdown’s NXT call ups have been to fill Midgard holes rather than because they wanted to put Bobby Roode’s character from NXT to the main roster, for example.

Like, it seems crazy to me to have this place where you can craft the next superstar, then override that all the time because you need someone to fill a role someone in 2009 was put in. It shows a lack of care to your own damn system.

[BorneAgain]

Jan 13, 2018 9:58:32 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

Jan 13, 2018 9:30:47 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

It doesn't help that in spite of the actual roster changing, the use of the talent didn't. Watch four weeks of Raw, and you can basically figure out the exact roles people have pretty consistently for the rest of the year. Throw in the massive overuse of cliches and tropes (a dive before a commercial break "as Raw rolls on", segment where a wrestler annoys/is berated by an authority figure, distraction leading to rollup finish, a beatdown because so and so is sending a message to so and so) and you have a show that just feels booked by an un-creative EWR player.

At times it gets to the point where even stupid stuff becomes welcome because for no other reasion its a change to the formula. The Grumpy Cat episode from a few years ago was an asinine attempt at celebrity, but it was something different at least.

The bit about roles is genuinely one of my pet peeves in the last few years. Besides AJ, people are usually called up to fit a role that they had for another superstar years ago or a type of role rather than because they want their talents utilised there. Like, as good as Joe is, he’s in the role of tough dude with submissions that others are there for and not because he’s Samoa Joe. Heck, they couldn’t decide if he was HHH’s goon or not because it didn’t really matter. Most of Smackdown’s NXT call ups have been to fill Midgard holes rather than because they wanted to put Bobby Roode’s character from NXT to the main roster, for example.

Like, it seems crazy to me to have this place where you can craft the next superstar, then override that all the time because you need someone to fill a role someone in 2009 was put in. It shows a lack of care to your own damn system.

I think that's why the SD period of July 16 - March 17 was a highlight to me because it seemed like guys were breaking away from the formula a bit. Slater and Rhyno getting highlighted, Orton/Wyatt as tag team guys, Luke Harper as a semi-significant singles guy, Ellsworth as an unlikely featured player, Miz basically filling any required niche as main event player or mid-card champion when needed, etc. Even the booking seemed less formulaic with people being rotated so you'd have Ambrose wrestling one week then doing just backstage stuff the next; it was a Smackdown hitting less checkmarks which was a nice change of pace. Not to mention Talking Smack giving loads of guys a chance to break out of the WWE promo formula and get their characters across.

[Cry Me a Wiggle]

Around August of 2000, when Stephanie took over creative, is when things noticeably started to stagnate. While they had enough red hot momentum to carry them through to WrestleMania and the WCW buyout, that's when a lot of weird booking decisions started to be made and character continuity and history began to be ignored. I think the abrupt end to the Triple H/Stephanie/Kurt Angle love triangle was the first sign things were going awry.

[HMARK Center]

Personally, the only time I ever found myself fully invested in WWF/WWE's product was probably as a kid during the early 90s; I did have a brief return in 1998-1999, but the weird creative choices in '99 ended up chasing me away and stopped me from sticking around to see the much better creative vision that was executed through much of 2000...and which was already just about done by the time 2001 rolled around the WCW was bought.

With the "modern era" product, which can be argued to stretch from 2002 through today (good God, that's a long time for the show to pretty much be the same), a lot of problems I have stem from things just happening without much in the way of endgames in mind. Wrestling matches, promos, and angles should have purposes, but way too much of WWE's product feels like it's cobbled together at the last minute or like a case of someone taking out their action figures and saying "Well what if THIS GUY fought THAT GUY?" and bashing them together.

[Amazing Kitsune]

That time they did the brand split and the Reign of Terror began with Triple H.