andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,258 
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 21, 2018 2:35:41 GMT -5
He smart
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jan 21, 2018 2:44:16 GMT -5
So Dana wants DC at Heavyweight And DC has already said I'll pass on that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 4:07:22 GMT -5
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Post by honsou on Jan 21, 2018 4:54:27 GMT -5
I'm really happy that DC won as hes my favorite fighter but even with how dominant(Fixed) he was he still to me looked sluggish. That weight cut was really tough on him and it seems the last few weight cuts have taken a toil on him. I know he wants to avoid fighting at heavyweight to not get in the way of Cain but from a health perspective it would be his best move. Hell lets get DC vs Brock as a freak show fight, it would be a ton of fun to see Brock get suplexed to death
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Post by sfvega on Jan 21, 2018 6:34:23 GMT -5
I'm really happy that DC won as hes my favorite fighter but even with how dominate he was he still to me looked sluggish. That weight cut was really tough on him and it seems the last few weight cuts have taken a toil on him. I know he wants to avoid fighting at heavyweight to not get in the way of Cain but from a health perspective it would be his best move. Hell lets get DC vs Brock as a freak show fight, it would be a ton of fun to see Brock get suplexed to death The word is dominant. I hate to nitpick on the internet, but that one gets on my nerves. I don't think Dana would want DC on Brock, because the odds are in favor of DC in that fight. And if Brock is getting in thre, you either want a mega fight or a win for him, especially with the chance he gets popped again and is pretty much done forever. Brock/Cain (as champ) and Brock/Jones are the two big fights. Dana doesn't want to have Brock lose his drawing power to a guy Dana doesn't think can draw himself. Hell, the only reason I think White would want Cain is because of the rematch aspect. On Dana playing favorites, I don't blame him in this instance. And I don't blame Stipe for disliking it. Stipe is a great heavyweight, but Ngannou is a big, strong dude with highlight KO power. Everyone wants to see bombs, and the UFC has lost it's two main draws the last few years in Ronda and McGregor. So if you're in White's shoes, yeah you want the guy who is the easier and higher-upside sell. There's really only 3 fights I'd buy from the UFC rn. Jones/Brock, GSP/Woodley, and Khabib/McGregor. Maybe Dillashaw/Mighty Mouse. And I know casual fans aren't likely to buy GSP/Woodley in large numbers because of a lack of brawling or non-finishes, but to me that would be a great technical fight between two somewhat evenly matched guys. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 21, 2018 7:09:22 GMT -5
Like I said, Stipe is a beast.
He's like Lesnar if he could have stayed healthy.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 21, 2018 13:19:36 GMT -5
BossLogic continues to do f***ing TREMENDOUS work {Spoiler}{Spoiler}  |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 21, 2018 14:02:10 GMT -5
So Dana wants DC at Heavyweight Likely because the only contenders for him now are Gustafsson once he is healthy and SHOGUN F***ING RUA. Only Cormier already said he's not leaving 205. DC has had some difficulty cutting weight recently but I give it a few more fights before he retires He's not going to go to HW with Cain there and he's 38 years old. |
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tenshi
Patti Mayonnaise
Probably more memorable than a Charlotte title reign
Posts: 35,140
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Post by tenshi on Jan 21, 2018 14:23:12 GMT -5
BossLogic continues to do f***ing TREMENDOUS work {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler} You know it's fake because he doesn't have that much hair. |
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jan 21, 2018 15:24:00 GMT -5
Like I said, Stipe is a beast. He's like Lesnar if he could have stayed healthy. That and not to mention being well rounded. |
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jan 21, 2018 19:28:27 GMT -5
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 21, 2018 19:52:30 GMT -5
On Dana playing favorites, I don't blame him in this instance. And I don't blame Stipe for disliking it. Stipe is a great heavyweight, but Ngannou is a big, strong dude with highlight KO power. Everyone wants to see bombs, and the UFC has lost it's two main draws the last few years in Ronda and McGregor. So if you're in White's shoes, yeah you want the guy who is the easier and higher-upside sell. I guess the issue there is that the arena was hot for Stipe, and Dana's trying to handpick stars in a shoot situation. In a worked scenario like wrestling it's bad enough to see someone ignore someone the crowd likes because they see someone else as being "more marketable" in their specific view of things, but Dana can't afford to keep doing this shit in a real sport where you can put all the hype in the world behind someone and they not have quite enough to hang in the top level of competition. He needs to play more to the top prospects he has now and be willing to actually get behind them instead of trying to use focus group tests to decide which of his legitimate fighters is a real star. The fact that Miocic set a record when the "real story" is Ngannou falling from gace and Dana "losing" another star means something is very backwards about how the UFC is being run. |
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Mozenrath
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Foppery and Whim
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Posts: 122,267
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 22, 2018 5:13:06 GMT -5
Scrolling by, I seriously thought he was posing with a robot. I was thinking, did Rocky predict the future of bizarre fighter purchases? |
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Post by sfvega on Jan 22, 2018 10:28:25 GMT -5
On Dana playing favorites, I don't blame him in this instance. And I don't blame Stipe for disliking it. Stipe is a great heavyweight, but Ngannou is a big, strong dude with highlight KO power. Everyone wants to see bombs, and the UFC has lost it's two main draws the last few years in Ronda and McGregor. So if you're in White's shoes, yeah you want the guy who is the easier and higher-upside sell. I guess the issue there is that the arena was hot for Stipe, and Dana's trying to handpick stars in a shoot situation. In a worked scenario like wrestling it's bad enough to see someone ignore someone the crowd likes because they see someone else as being "more marketable" in their specific view of things, but Dana can't afford to keep doing this shit in a real sport where you can put all the hype in the world behind someone and they not have quite enough to hang in the top level of competition. He needs to play more to the top prospects he has now and be willing to actually get behind them instead of trying to use focus group tests to decide which of his legitimate fighters is a real star. The fact that Miocic set a record when the "real story" is Ngannou falling from gace and Dana "losing" another star means something is very backwards about how the UFC is being run. Crowds get hot for lots of guys tho. That doesn't mean they're marketable stars. Woodley has been great and Dana hates him, because he knows he'll never move the meter as the star of a card. The crowds have loved guys like Cerrone or Roy Nelson in the past and it's still harder to make that guy make money. Ngannou is seen as someone who maybe could have moved the meter because everyone loves highlight KO power. Stipe will always be a better fighter than he is a sellable top star. You have to understand that Dana still has to be a salesman, and truth be told he's not that great of a salesman. It's not really about who is the best or who the crowd cheers for. I'm sure Dana would rather have a flop that drew 750,000 buys than a great card of fights that drew 100,000. It's not really backwards to try and push a more marketable star. Yeah, it's unfair to favor Ngannou over the more skilled Stipe, but it's also sensible business. The UFC right now has more highly skilled MMA fighters than they've ever had, especially in the 135-170 classes. These guys are worlds better than 10 years ago. But their buyrates are going steadily down. They need star power, and who really thinks Stipe is that guy? If I were Stipe, I'd be pissed. But if I were Dana, I'd be doing the same damn thing 100%. No question. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 22, 2018 11:37:27 GMT -5
I guess the issue there is that the arena was hot for Stipe, and Dana's trying to handpick stars in a shoot situation. In a worked scenario like wrestling it's bad enough to see someone ignore someone the crowd likes because they see someone else as being "more marketable" in their specific view of things, but Dana can't afford to keep doing this shit in a real sport where you can put all the hype in the world behind someone and they not have quite enough to hang in the top level of competition. He needs to play more to the top prospects he has now and be willing to actually get behind them instead of trying to use focus group tests to decide which of his legitimate fighters is a real star. The fact that Miocic set a record when the "real story" is Ngannou falling from gace and Dana "losing" another star means something is very backwards about how the UFC is being run. Crowds get hot for lots of guys tho. That doesn't mean they're marketable stars. Woodley has been great and Dana hates him, because he knows he'll never move the meter as the star of a card. The crowds have loved guys like Cerrone or Roy Nelson in the past and it's still harder to make that guy make money. Ngannou is seen as someone who maybe could have moved the meter because everyone loves highlight KO power. Stipe will always be a better fighter than he is a sellable top star. You have to understand that Dana still has to be a salesman, and truth be told he's not that great of a salesman. It's not really about who is the best or who the crowd cheers for. I'm sure Dana would rather have a flop that drew 750,000 buys than a great card of fights that drew 100,000. It's not really backwards to try and push a more marketable star. Yeah, it's unfair to favor Ngannou over the more skilled Stipe, but it's also sensible business. The UFC right now has more highly skilled MMA fighters than they've ever had, especially in the 135-170 classes. These guys are worlds better than 10 years ago. But their buyrates are going steadily down. They need star power, and who really thinks Stipe is that guy? If I were Stipe, I'd be pissed. But if I were Dana, I'd be doing the same damn thing 100%. No question. But it is about who's the best. Because MMA is a shoot sport. Ngannou's not moving the needle now because he got dismantled and exposed, and who's going to need a lot of work now to rebuild that. Dana's got to learn that he can't pick who the champion is unless he feels like rigging fights and dropping a lot of money in front of Stipe to take a dive. He's not doing that, and so he's got to accept that. If the guys you're trying to peg as your top prospects can't get the job done then it's super backwards, and Dana is spending so much time bent over so far back he could eat his own ass giving Connor everything he wants while Connor sits around very much not fighting and not drawing any money. Dana needs to either start paying people to take dives, or learn how to compromise and work with what he's got. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 22, 2018 12:12:08 GMT -5
Crowds get hot for lots of guys tho. That doesn't mean they're marketable stars. Woodley has been great and Dana hates him, because he knows he'll never move the meter as the star of a card. The crowds have loved guys like Cerrone or Roy Nelson in the past and it's still harder to make that guy make money. Ngannou is seen as someone who maybe could have moved the meter because everyone loves highlight KO power. Stipe will always be a better fighter than he is a sellable top star. You have to understand that Dana still has to be a salesman, and truth be told he's not that great of a salesman. It's not really about who is the best or who the crowd cheers for. I'm sure Dana would rather have a flop that drew 750,000 buys than a great card of fights that drew 100,000. It's not really backwards to try and push a more marketable star. Yeah, it's unfair to favor Ngannou over the more skilled Stipe, but it's also sensible business. The UFC right now has more highly skilled MMA fighters than they've ever had, especially in the 135-170 classes. These guys are worlds better than 10 years ago. But their buyrates are going steadily down. They need star power, and who really thinks Stipe is that guy? If I were Stipe, I'd be pissed. But if I were Dana, I'd be doing the same damn thing 100%. No question. But it is about who's the best. Because MMA is a shoot sport. Ngannou's not moving the needle now because he got dismantled and exposed, and who's going to need a lot of work now to rebuild that. Dana's got to learn that he can't pick who the champion is unless he feels like rigging fights and dropping a lot of money in front of Stipe to take a dive. He's not doing that, and so he's got to accept that. If the guys you're trying to peg as your top prospects can't get the job done then it's super backwards, and Dana is spending so much time bent over so far back he could eat his own ass giving Connor everything he wants while Connor sits around very much not fighting and not drawing any money. Dana needs to either start paying people to take dives, or learn how to compromise and work with what he's got. Right. At the end of the day he's openly rooting against his champions which isn't going to hit on anything. Fans see it and they aren't fooled because why the hell do you think it's a good idea to root against a guy who's talented enough to be your champion and in the event they win, you still have to make another match with them Dana has created bad feelings among a lot of his fighters because they are tired of him treating them like they don't have talent. If i'm your champion, I want to be treated with some type of respect and not openly plotted against because you don't like me or my fighting style. He'll openly shit on a fighter because they won't take a fight in 2 weeks notice but he's given the world to Connor who has drawn him money no doubt but the dude has held up 2 of your divisions and is basically gone Superstar on you. |
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Post by sfvega on Jan 22, 2018 15:46:51 GMT -5
Crowds get hot for lots of guys tho. That doesn't mean they're marketable stars. Woodley has been great and Dana hates him, because he knows he'll never move the meter as the star of a card. The crowds have loved guys like Cerrone or Roy Nelson in the past and it's still harder to make that guy make money. Ngannou is seen as someone who maybe could have moved the meter because everyone loves highlight KO power. Stipe will always be a better fighter than he is a sellable top star. You have to understand that Dana still has to be a salesman, and truth be told he's not that great of a salesman. It's not really about who is the best or who the crowd cheers for. I'm sure Dana would rather have a flop that drew 750,000 buys than a great card of fights that drew 100,000. It's not really backwards to try and push a more marketable star. Yeah, it's unfair to favor Ngannou over the more skilled Stipe, but it's also sensible business. The UFC right now has more highly skilled MMA fighters than they've ever had, especially in the 135-170 classes. These guys are worlds better than 10 years ago. But their buyrates are going steadily down. They need star power, and who really thinks Stipe is that guy? If I were Stipe, I'd be pissed. But if I were Dana, I'd be doing the same damn thing 100%. No question. But it is about who's the best. Because MMA is a shoot sport. Ngannou's not moving the needle now because he got dismantled and exposed, and who's going to need a lot of work now to rebuild that. Dana's got to learn that he can't pick who the champion is unless he feels like rigging fights and dropping a lot of money in front of Stipe to take a dive. He's not doing that, and so he's got to accept that. If the guys you're trying to peg as your top prospects can't get the job done then it's super backwards, and Dana is spending so much time bent over so far back he could eat his own ass giving Connor everything he wants while Connor sits around very much not fighting and not drawing any money. Dana needs to either start paying people to take dives, or learn how to compromise and work with what he's got. It has nothing to do with it being fake or rigged. It has everything to do with drawing power. A champion + hype machine =/= draw. Mighty Mouse has been showcased on Fox to try and build up his drawing power, is as dominant as anybody and just co-mained a 200,000 buy PPV. There are just guys who move the meter, and the UFC desperately needs thise guys from a BUSINESS perspective, having nothing to do with whether or not they are champion or dominant. It's the same in other real (I can't stand the work/shoot vernacular) sports. In hockey, the LA Kings were recently semi-dominant and they'll never draw the way Pittsburgh does. They just aren't interesting and play a boring brand of hockey. You showcasing your best can still fail to draw. If Conor came back and fought Diaz, it would draw more than a title fight vs. Ferguson. Just because of the personality and style of the fighters. I like Woodley a lot, I seriously can't remember the last time he was in real trouble in a fight. But he can't draw. That's the business side of it. I do hate that Dana shits on guys, because that is just a bad look all around. But from the business side, I have no problem with him taking a risk to push Ngannou, given that he has upside as a highlight reel KO artist. Stipe could keep the belt for the next 3 years, and I still couldn't envision him becoming a draw naturally or with the help of the machine. Casuals just aren't that interested in watching him fight. So when you're looking to increase your dreadful buys, being the best isn't always the cure for that (See: Mouse, Mighty). |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 22, 2018 18:19:34 GMT -5
But it is about who's the best. Because MMA is a shoot sport. Ngannou's not moving the needle now because he got dismantled and exposed, and who's going to need a lot of work now to rebuild that. Dana's got to learn that he can't pick who the champion is unless he feels like rigging fights and dropping a lot of money in front of Stipe to take a dive. He's not doing that, and so he's got to accept that. If the guys you're trying to peg as your top prospects can't get the job done then it's super backwards, and Dana is spending so much time bent over so far back he could eat his own ass giving Connor everything he wants while Connor sits around very much not fighting and not drawing any money. Dana needs to either start paying people to take dives, or learn how to compromise and work with what he's got. It has nothing to do with it being fake or rigged. It has everything to do with drawing power. A champion + hype machine =/= draw. Mighty Mouse has been showcased on Fox to try and build up his drawing power, is as dominant as anybody and just co-mained a 200,000 buy PPV. There are just guys who move the meter, and the UFC desperately needs thise guys from a BUSINESS perspective, having nothing to do with whether or not they are champion or dominant. It's the same in other real (I can't stand the work/shoot vernacular) sports. In hockey, the LA Kings were recently semi-dominant and they'll never draw the way Pittsburgh does. They just aren't interesting and play a boring brand of hockey. You showcasing your best can still fail to draw. If Conor came back and fought Diaz, it would draw more than a title fight vs. Ferguson. Just because of the personality and style of the fighters. I like Woodley a lot, I seriously can't remember the last time he was in real trouble in a fight. But he can't draw. That's the business side of it. I do hate that Dana shits on guys, because that is just a bad look all around. But from the business side, I have no problem with him taking a risk to push Ngannou, given that he has upside as a highlight reel KO artist. Stipe could keep the belt for the next 3 years, and I still couldn't envision him becoming a draw naturally or with the help of the machine. Casuals just aren't that interested in watching him fight. So when you're looking to increase your dreadful buys, being the best isn't always the cure for that (See: Mouse, Mighty). Right, but the problem isn't that Dana wanted Ngannou the problem is that he wants these guys so much he marginalizes the top fighters. Sports teams aren't a great analogy because the larger problem there is in active fan markets and being in a location where a home crowd gives a shit; I live in Montreal, and people here eat, breathe, live, and shit hockey, even when the Habs go on years-long streaks of not doing well at all or failing to even make the play-offs. But even still, if a team wins the Stanley Cup the league will get behind them and celebrate them. There's no reason Dana can't play favorites while also trying to put the machine behind people and not seem to be actively opposed to the outcomes of major fights and being garbage to his fighters. From a business perspective that is some hot f***ing nonsense. There's a middle ground here and he's not bothering with it at all. |
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Post by sfvega on Jan 23, 2018 3:47:50 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with it being fake or rigged. It has everything to do with drawing power. A champion + hype machine =/= draw. Mighty Mouse has been showcased on Fox to try and build up his drawing power, is as dominant as anybody and just co-mained a 200,000 buy PPV. There are just guys who move the meter, and the UFC desperately needs thise guys from a BUSINESS perspective, having nothing to do with whether or not they are champion or dominant. It's the same in other real (I can't stand the work/shoot vernacular) sports. In hockey, the LA Kings were recently semi-dominant and they'll never draw the way Pittsburgh does. They just aren't interesting and play a boring brand of hockey. You showcasing your best can still fail to draw. If Conor came back and fought Diaz, it would draw more than a title fight vs. Ferguson. Just because of the personality and style of the fighters. I like Woodley a lot, I seriously can't remember the last time he was in real trouble in a fight. But he can't draw. That's the business side of it. I do hate that Dana shits on guys, because that is just a bad look all around. But from the business side, I have no problem with him taking a risk to push Ngannou, given that he has upside as a highlight reel KO artist. Stipe could keep the belt for the next 3 years, and I still couldn't envision him becoming a draw naturally or with the help of the machine. Casuals just aren't that interested in watching him fight. So when you're looking to increase your dreadful buys, being the best isn't always the cure for that (See: Mouse, Mighty). Right, but the problem isn't that Dana wanted Ngannou the problem is that he wants these guys so much he marginalizes the top fighters. Sports teams aren't a great analogy because the larger problem there is in active fan markets and being in a location where a home crowd gives a shit; I live in Montreal, and people here eat, breathe, live, and shit hockey, even when the Habs go on years-long streaks of not doing well at all or failing to even make the play-offs. But even still, if a team wins the Stanley Cup the league will get behind them and celebrate them. There's no reason Dana can't play favorites while also trying to put the machine behind people and not seem to be actively opposed to the outcomes of major fights and being garbage to his fighters. From a business perspective that is some hot f***ing nonsense. There's a middle ground here and he's not bothering with it at all. Sports teams ARE a great analogy. I have no clue what you're talking about with home markets and hot crowds and whatever. That's not where the money is. The money is in buyrates, in marketable stars. Hot crowds, eh. You already got their money. Sure, it adds to a big fight feel, but it's not a money metric. My point with sports teams is that you have championship games/series with teams who move the meter and teams who don't. Whether it's UFC buyrates, wrestling, or even the Stanley Cup, the ability to move the meter is almost completely dependent on someone/some team's ability to appeal to more casual fans and non-fans. Even McGregor/Mayweather. It had nothing to do with who the best is, or the skill set or the quality of the fight (not great). It made tons of money because it conned people who weren't boxing fans into putting down $100 on a boxing PPV. Yeah, you could try and market Stipe or Woodley or Mighty Mouse to casual and non-MMA fans, but yes it is in my opinion very doubtful to catch on. I get what you're saying about his treatment of fighters and I don't agree with it. But what my point is from the beginning is that I can at least easily see Dana's logic in promoting Ngannou over Stipe. Dana thinks that raw power could draw better than Stipe if Ngannou took off. It's reasonable. I think you're more upset at the fact he's treating the guys at the top of his sport like trash, but his thinking that if Ngannou won in highoight fashion maybe he'd be a better draw than Stipe now or down the road than Stipe has been so far is sound enough. Maybe Ngannou wins and flops as a draw, too. It's an inexact science. But I don't think he made a terrible decision betting on the shiny new horse with perceived higher upside. |
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