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Post by benstudd on Feb 2, 2018 19:08:52 GMT -5
The thing is, there is no boat anymore! It doesn't matter. They are pratically dead. Him staying or leaving doesn't make any difference. Secondly, he chose to leave, right. He wasn't fired. HHH was interested and boom he went there. Then why are you trying to spin this as some "bold, confident, positive move" on TNA's part? They literally just lost their last competent employee. It's bad. Not saying it's a bold move. I'm saying starting over with new people is not a bad thing. TNA has been horrible in the last five years with Borash there. It really doesn't matter. It is safe to say nobody has mattered.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 2, 2018 23:30:00 GMT -5
Then why are you trying to spin this as some "bold, confident, positive move" on TNA's part? They literally just lost their last competent employee. It's bad. Not saying it's a bold move. I'm saying starting over with new people is not a bad thing. TNA has been horrible in the last five years with Borash there. It really doesn't matter. It is safe to say nobody has mattered. It's not about quality though, it's about the day-to-day of the company. Borash seems to do the work of three or four people for the company and he knows all its ins and outs. One thing a company does need in its transitional period is a solid support backbone. You want to have new focus but you also want the day-to-day in the capable hands of someone who's good at their job. It does matter if Borash is gone, because they no longer have that backbone. In no way is having someone who could do what needed to be on the business end, show production end, video production end, and on-air ends of the process not something that matters.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 2, 2018 23:33:00 GMT -5
Not saying it's a bold move. I'm saying starting over with new people is not a bad thing. TNA has been horrible in the last five years with Borash there. It really doesn't matter. It is safe to say nobody has mattered. It's not about quality though, it's about the day-to-day of the company. Borash seems to do the work of three or four people for the company and he knows all its ins and outs. One thing a company does need in its transitional period is a solid support backbone. You want to have new focus but you also want the day-to-day in the capable hands of someone who's good at their job. It does matter if Borash is gone, because they no longer have that backbone. In no way is having someone who could do what needed to be on the business end, show production end, video production end, and on-air ends of the process not something that matters. Right. It's not about the on-camera quality. It's about, to mis-use a phrase, "Making sure the trains run on time". Borash was great at keeping all those plates spinning. I'm betting the next people in those positions won't be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 0:36:01 GMT -5
Ran across some of the hardcore “WWE is the devil/TNA is legit on their level” fans on Twitter, and they’ve got so much hate and vitriol for JB. It’s absolute insanity. They’re saying he’s a traitor and a liar and all sorts of bullshit. He was there for 15 years and they don’t respect that at all.
Spud and EC3 are getting it something fierce too. Spud’s getting some shit about him cheating Impact out of $20,000, and somehow EC3 is completely useless.
I don’t know, man. There’s so much anger, and that dude was loyal AF.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 3, 2018 1:01:10 GMT -5
Ran across some of the hardcore “WWE is the devil/TNA is legit on their level” fans on Twitter, and they’ve got so much hate and vitriol for JB. It’s absolute insanity. They’re saying he’s a traitor and a liar and all sorts of bullshit. He was there for 15 years and they don’t respect that at all. Spud and EC3 are getting it something fierce too. Spud’s getting some shit about him cheating Impact out of $20,000, and somehow EC3 is completely useless. I don’t know, man. There’s so much anger, and that dude was loyal AF. The idea there are TNA marks whose loyalty and Stockholm Syndrome outlasted that of Jeremy "I'd Give Abyss A Lung Transplant If It Made The Next Taping Block Happen" Borash is horrifying to me honestly.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Feb 3, 2018 1:35:05 GMT -5
Ran across some of the hardcore “WWE is the devil/TNA is legit on their level” fans on Twitter, and they’ve got so much hate and vitriol for JB. It’s absolute insanity. They’re saying he’s a traitor and a liar and all sorts of bullshit. He was there for 15 years and they don’t respect that at all. Spud and EC3 are getting it something fierce too. Spud’s getting some shit about him cheating Impact out of $20,000, and somehow EC3 is completely useless. I don’t know, man. There’s so much anger, and that dude was loyal AF. That guy is a big reason why the product that they love so much as been able to survive for this long. The "With Us or Against Us" mentality can truly be a frightening thing to witness.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Feb 3, 2018 1:39:17 GMT -5
Not saying it's a bold move. I'm saying starting over with new people is not a bad thing. TNA has been horrible in the last five years with Borash there. It really doesn't matter. It is safe to say nobody has mattered. It's not about quality though, it's about the day-to-day of the company. Borash seems to do the work of three or four people for the company and he knows all its ins and outs. One thing a company does need in its transitional period is a solid support backbone. You want to have new focus but you also want the day-to-day in the capable hands of someone who's good at their job. It does matter if Borash is gone, because they no longer have that backbone. In no way is having someone who could do what needed to be on the business end, show production end, video production end, and on-air ends of the process not something that matters. Not to mention that from a purely business standpoint, now that JB is gone and all of those positions need to be filled, they are now going to have to be paying more people since instead of paying one guy to do all those jobs, you now have several people, each doing one of those jobs. Not to mention, seeing a guy as loyal as Borash was leave cannot be good for the morale of the survivors.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 3, 2018 1:45:25 GMT -5
It's not about quality though, it's about the day-to-day of the company. Borash seems to do the work of three or four people for the company and he knows all its ins and outs. One thing a company does need in its transitional period is a solid support backbone. You want to have new focus but you also want the day-to-day in the capable hands of someone who's good at their job. It does matter if Borash is gone, because they no longer have that backbone. In no way is having someone who could do what needed to be on the business end, show production end, video production end, and on-air ends of the process not something that matters. Not to mention that from a purely business standpoint, now that JB is gone and all of those positions need to be filled, they are now going to have to be paying more people since instead of paying one guy to do all those jobs, you now have several people, each doing one of those jobs. Not to mention, seeing a guy as loyal as Borash was leave cannot be good for the morale of the survivors. Morale: High as f***.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 3, 2018 1:55:24 GMT -5
It's not about quality though, it's about the day-to-day of the company. Borash seems to do the work of three or four people for the company and he knows all its ins and outs. One thing a company does need in its transitional period is a solid support backbone. You want to have new focus but you also want the day-to-day in the capable hands of someone who's good at their job. It does matter if Borash is gone, because they no longer have that backbone. In no way is having someone who could do what needed to be on the business end, show production end, video production end, and on-air ends of the process not something that matters. Not to mention that from a purely business standpoint, now that JB is gone and all of those positions need to be filled, they are now going to have to be paying more people since instead of paying one guy to do all those jobs, you now have several people, each doing one of those jobs. Not to mention, seeing a guy as loyal as Borash was leave cannot be good for the morale of the survivors. Doing the job and having to learn it. To replace him on commentary and the new twitch show alone, they're going to either have to spend good money to get someone who does that job well, or get someone who's cheap and not good at what they doing. Sure, you can put Josh on the new LAW instead, but is that really a good decision considering he's f***ing terrible? Same goes for all the other jobs; people who already know what to do tend to be able to call their shot on a decent salary, and those same people may not be so willing to put up with the seeming endless parade of bullshit TNA rains down on people. In Borash they had a guy willing to let the company bleed him until his head looked like it was drawn by a street caricature artist, and who was willing to suffer through everything for them. They won't find another one like him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 4:15:04 GMT -5
So the question raises now. Is this TNA's biggest L?
We've had awful stuff, hilarious stuff, awfully hilarious and hilariously awful stuff. We've had the company one Pumpkin sized bailout away from folding and them employing Ol' Buckets of Ego in essentially a PR role. These are all disasters.
But this feels like a genuine "they're done" moment, even more than AJ going. They'll muddle through like the detestable cockroach like bin fire they are but this guy was the glue, nuts and bolts, timber, bricks and everything else for the company. Losing him, not giving him the moon to try and keep him feels HUGE in the context of where they are.
And as I've said before as well as the issues others have highlighted about hiring either expensive know how or cheap inexperienced with potential for errors, I guarantee, GUARANTEE that there are 10, 15 smaller things he did, Noone knew, Noone noticed but will cause problems when Noone did them, even something as simple as posting itineraries on notice boards etc (just a guess, could be anything) that will cause serious issues.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 3, 2018 4:23:23 GMT -5
The one big downside from just a purely selfish standpoint to this news is that Borash going to WWE means he's going to be gainfully employed and happy and not trying to stir up shit, and I was always hoping things might end kind of ugly so that Borash could ring up every shoot interview production company out there and offer guided tours of where the bodies are buried. The stories that man must have. That's always been my perspective, too. Abyss and Borash likely know every ugly story that TNA's run through. I could see Abyss going either way. The stories about him from James Mitchell and Cornette paint the picture of a nice enough guy who is unfortunately desperate for validation, even by wrestling standards, and would constantly try to get feedback, with the overuse of gimmick spots being because he was adamant about trying to impress fans with it. So, I could see him either being too loyal to embarrass his longtime employers out of misplaced loyalty, or, trying to gain validation from shoot fans, he'd throw everything out there in an attempt to capture and hold onto relevance that way.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 3, 2018 5:46:33 GMT -5
So the question raises now. Is this TNA's biggest L? We've had awful stuff, hilarious stuff, awfully hilarious and hilariously awful stuff. We've had the company one Pumpkin sized bailout away from folding and them employing Ol' Buckets of Ego in essentially a PR role. These are all disasters. But this feels like a genuine "they're done" moment, even more than AJ going. They'll muddle through like the detestable cockroach like bin fire they are but this guy was the glue, nuts and bolts, timber, bricks and everything else for the company. Losing him, not giving him the moon to try and keep him feels HUGE in the context of where they are. And as I've said before as well as the issues others have highlighted about hiring either expensive know how or cheap inexperienced with potential for errors, I guarantee, GUARANTEE that there are 10, 15 smaller things he did, Noone knew, Noone noticed but will cause problems when Noone did them, even something as simple as posting itineraries on notice boards etc (just a guess, could be anything) that will cause serious issues. Considering the history, it’s easy to call this a big loss and I’m in no way saying it isn’t. Borash was a consistent and like you said, he filled so many roles and did so much stuff for the company. Heck, Impact execs just came back from a small UK press tour. The fact they can do that at all and had a big presence in the UK at one time (being able to break further than WWE has done thus far, which says a lot. Even really minor things like Bobby Roode celebrating being the longest TNA champ in London) is down to Borash. But considering the amount of times we’ve all said they’re done or said this was the beginning of the end of the company, it’s hard for me personally to say “This is it”. The Spike TV deal was supposed to be it, so was Destination America, so was the Panda Energy cut off, so was the Corgan lawsuit etc. Something always happens that keeps them going even in a worst state. I will say, though, that this is probably the biggest blow to TNA in their history. You can lose all the TV deals you want and find a way to make it work but it’s much harder if you lose someone with a wide scope as Borash. Essentially, you can change the operating system on a computer but it’s much harder without, say, a hard drive. It can be done, it’s just ridiculously hard.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 5:51:04 GMT -5
So the question raises now. Is this TNA's biggest L? We've had awful stuff, hilarious stuff, awfully hilarious and hilariously awful stuff. We've had the company one Pumpkin sized bailout away from folding and them employing Ol' Buckets of Ego in essentially a PR role. These are all disasters. But this feels like a genuine "they're done" moment, even more than AJ going. They'll muddle through like the detestable cockroach like bin fire they are but this guy was the glue, nuts and bolts, timber, bricks and everything else for the company. Losing him, not giving him the moon to try and keep him feels HUGE in the context of where they are. And as I've said before as well as the issues others have highlighted about hiring either expensive know how or cheap inexperienced with potential for errors, I guarantee, GUARANTEE that there are 10, 15 smaller things he did, Noone knew, Noone noticed but will cause problems when Noone did them, even something as simple as posting itineraries on notice boards etc (just a guess, could be anything) that will cause serious issues. Considering the history, it’s easy to call this a big loss and I’m in no way saying it isn’t. Borash was a consistent and like you said, he filled so many roles and did so much stuff for the company. Heck, Impact execs just came back from a small UK press tour. The fact they can do that at all and had a big presence in the UK at one time (being able to break further than WWE has done thus far, which says a lot. Even really minor things like Bobby Roode celebrating being the longest TNA champ in London) is down to Borash. But considering the amount of times we’ve all said they’re done or said this was the beginning of the end of the company, it’s hard for me personally to say “This is it”. The Spike TV deal was supposed to be it, so was Destination America, so was the Panda Energy cut off, so was the Corgan lawsuit etc. Something always happens that keeps them going even in a worst state. I will say, though, that this is probably the biggest blow to TNA in their history. You can lose all the TV deals you want and find a way to make it work but it’s much harder if you lose someone with a wide scope as Borash. Essentially, you can change the operating system on a computer but it’s much harder without, say, a hard drive. It can be done, it’s just ridiculously hard. Oh they'll totally continue as I say, like the cockroach in promotional form they are, but this feels like....I don't know, this is actually the beginning of the end. They'll shrink more and more now. No TV presence before the end of the year is my call.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 3, 2018 7:02:33 GMT -5
Considering the history, it’s easy to call this a big loss and I’m in no way saying it isn’t. Borash was a consistent and like you said, he filled so many roles and did so much stuff for the company. Heck, Impact execs just came back from a small UK press tour. The fact they can do that at all and had a big presence in the UK at one time (being able to break further than WWE has done thus far, which says a lot. Even really minor things like Bobby Roode celebrating being the longest TNA champ in London) is down to Borash. But considering the amount of times we’ve all said they’re done or said this was the beginning of the end of the company, it’s hard for me personally to say “This is it”. The Spike TV deal was supposed to be it, so was Destination America, so was the Panda Energy cut off, so was the Corgan lawsuit etc. Something always happens that keeps them going even in a worst state. I will say, though, that this is probably the biggest blow to TNA in their history. You can lose all the TV deals you want and find a way to make it work but it’s much harder if you lose someone with a wide scope as Borash. Essentially, you can change the operating system on a computer but it’s much harder without, say, a hard drive. It can be done, it’s just ridiculously hard. Oh they'll totally continue as I say, like the cockroach in promotional form they are, but this feels like....I don't know, this is actually the beginning of the end. They'll shrink more and more now. No TV presence before the end of the year is my call. It’s an understandable feeling, yeah. It does feel like this could be the Hogan/Sting or Fingerpoke of Doom moment we look back on as the ultimate death nail even with the other death nails that weren’t as important as losing your longest serving and loyalist employee. The thing with TV, though, is Pop are more likely to keep them because they get all the advertising money, as small as it is. And with TNA not in a position to renegotiate any higher, there’s no reason for Pop to really cancel them since they’re not a channel THAT interested in big ratings, it seems like. But you could be right, who knows?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 7:04:14 GMT -5
Oh they'll totally continue as I say, like the cockroach in promotional form they are, but this feels like....I don't know, this is actually the beginning of the end. They'll shrink more and more now. No TV presence before the end of the year is my call. It’s an understandable feeling, yeah. It does feel like this could be the Hogan/Sting or Fingerpoke of Doom moment we look back on as the ultimate death nail even with the other death nails that weren’t as important as losing your longest serving and loyalist employee. The thing with TV, though, is Pop are more likely to keep them because they get all the advertising money, as small as it is. And with TNA not in a position to renegotiate any higher, there’s no reason for Pop to really cancel them since they’re not a channel THAT interested in big ratings, it seems like. But you could be right, who knows? Just the slow, terminal decline now makes me think Pop might throw the opportunity to an indy that's not a dried out mummified corpse.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 3, 2018 7:06:44 GMT -5
It’s an understandable feeling, yeah. It does feel like this could be the Hogan/Sting or Fingerpoke of Doom moment we look back on as the ultimate death nail even with the other death nails that weren’t as important as losing your longest serving and loyalist employee. The thing with TV, though, is Pop are more likely to keep them because they get all the advertising money, as small as it is. And with TNA not in a position to renegotiate any higher, there’s no reason for Pop to really cancel them since they’re not a channel THAT interested in big ratings, it seems like. But you could be right, who knows? Just the slow, terminal decline now makes me think Pop might throw the opportunity to an indy that's not a dried out mummified corpse. Honestly, considering how little Pop pay for anything Impact related, it costs less to keep them around than potentially paying the costs for an indie to get adjusted to HD.
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