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Post by ANuclearError on Mar 28, 2018 14:13:19 GMT -5
This. He's aiming for the SANADA/Naito tranquilo vibe but landing nowhere near. As for his look...he has more or less the same physique as me, and I don't go to the gym. He's not imposing, not even as a wiry technician, and has zero charisma. As 4real says, his promos are just...ugh. He's an irritating little twat trying to be the toughest coolest smartest man in the room, nothing about his actual aura fits his gimmick. Him tagging with Minoru is kind of hilariously tragic in a way as you can just see he's trying to learn from Minoru and emulate him, but they're absolutely worlds apart in terms of presence even if their styles are similar. He comes off as a South-English nerd cosplaying Minoru Suzuki...which is kind of exactly what he is. I honestly think Scurll would suit the role of Suzuki's protege so much better. And believe me, there is nobody I WANT to like more than ZSJ. Which is kind of why I don't, because he's going for basically my favourite thing in wrestling, the mat-wizard English shooter, and falling short. He is so not ready for this rocket push, going over far better all-round talents in Naito, Ibushi, SANADA and Tanahashi. All of them outshine him at every aspect of pro wrestling except for chaining various submissions together, which is kind of all he has. If ZSJ was everything he's hyped up to be, he wouldn't need TAKA to try to get heat for him. Okada still has Gedo with him on promos, so I don't think there's much merit in that argument. |
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Mar 28, 2018 14:14:46 GMT -5
I loved his post match promo where he called Sanada a "cheeky f***er" for putting him in the Paradise Lock.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 28, 2018 14:53:53 GMT -5
Meh, I like him. Feel like his addition to Suzuki-Gun gave them a shot in the arm and ZSJ as the protege to Minoru Suzuki
His selling can be bad but his wrestling is fine to me as he can finish his matches in multiple ways
Doubt he will ever be a world champion but he's a solid 2nd tier competitor who will always be around IC/US title in NJPW and get an occasional IWGP title shot
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Mar 28, 2018 15:02:59 GMT -5
Love him, he's awesome.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Mar 28, 2018 15:15:36 GMT -5
This. He's aiming for the SANADA/Naito tranquilo vibe but landing nowhere near. As for his look...he has more or less the same physique as me, and I don't go to the gym. He's not imposing, not even as a wiry technician, and has zero charisma. As 4real says, his promos are just...ugh. He's an irritating little twat trying to be the toughest coolest smartest man in the room, nothing about his actual aura fits his gimmick. Him tagging with Minoru is kind of hilariously tragic in a way as you can just see he's trying to learn from Minoru and emulate him, but they're absolutely worlds apart in terms of presence even if their styles are similar. He comes off as a South-English nerd cosplaying Minoru Suzuki...which is kind of exactly what he is. I honestly think Scurll would suit the role of Suzuki's protege so much better. And believe me, there is nobody I WANT to like more than ZSJ. Which is kind of why I don't, because he's going for basically my favourite thing in wrestling, the mat-wizard English shooter, and falling short. He is so not ready for this rocket push, going over far better all-round talents in Naito, Ibushi, SANADA and Tanahashi. All of them outshine him at every aspect of pro wrestling except for chaining various submissions together, which is kind of all he has. If ZSJ was everything he's hyped up to be, he wouldn't need TAKA to try to get heat for him. If Rick Rude was everything he was hyped up to be, he wouldn't need Bobby Heenan to try to get heat for him. If The Midnight Express were everything they were hyped up to be, they wouldn't need Jim Cornette to try to get heat for them. If Brock Lesnar was everything he was hyped up to be, he wouldn't need Paul Heyman to try to get heat for him. These are all ridiculous statements. The purpose of a manager is to cover the weak point in their charges game, promos. TAKA does that for ZSJ. That's the point of the pairing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 16:42:50 GMT -5
My first exposure to Zach was the CWC and I thought he was awful. His matches looked contrived, his persona reminded me of all of the try hard lads in London and Manchester, and I simple couldn't get into it. I thought he was over hyped and sucked.
Then he joined Suzuki-Gun and the G1 happened. And for me, Sabre joining Suzuki-Gun is an example of how important storytelling is in pro wrestling. Suzuki-Gun are bunch of dickhead, cheating, sadists who relish in not just winning, but humiliating opponents. And that context has made Sabre a freaking star to me. He's not just doing hold, he's enjoying hurting people. He doesn't want to win, he wants to humiliate. And having met legit sadists, that calm outlook actually works for his character. He's Suzuki's protege and his performances in the New Japan Cup really accentuate that. Even his promo work has gone from annoying hard guy wannabe, to ANNOYING hard guy wannabe. He's a complete prick, but a complete prick who will dismantle you and thinks that makes him worth something.
That said, his selling still sucks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 16:47:04 GMT -5
ZSJ's "absolute boredom incarnate" doesn't really come off as effective heeling or "Oh, this is just too easy for me" at all. It comes off like he'd rather be off watching paint dry somewhere. Instead of "everything's boring because I'm so good", it just comes off as "everything's boring because I'm so boring". He's an irritating little twat trying to be the toughest coolest smartest man in the room, nothing about his actual aura fits his gimmick. . That's the point. That's like complaining about any sniveling heel being too annoying. Or for the Blackpool rough as Regal pretending to be posh. He's a twat. That's the character. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 16:58:06 GMT -5
I love Sabre recently. I didn't mind him in the CWC either, his match with Gulak was awesome, they were just torturing each other. He's got a really unique style, I love his angry promos. I can deal with his less expressive selling because I think of it like MMA where you try to poker face you're way through the pain to not give your opponent the idea that their gameplan is working. He still grunts through gritted teeth and stuff, I think he does enough, I find he plays his character in a way that plays to his strengths.
I've no problem with his size, obviously it's that size that gives him the ability to climb around his opponent's bodies like a snake. The only challenge to my suspension of disbelief I think is when he wrestles Ishii, but I tend to think a lot of offense against Ishii from anyone strikes me as unbelievable because he comes off as such a badass.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Mar 28, 2018 17:07:09 GMT -5
He's an irritating little twat trying to be the toughest coolest smartest man in the room, nothing about his actual aura fits his gimmick. . That's the point. That's like complaining about any sniveling heel being too annoying. Or for the Blackpool rough as Regal pretending to be posh. He's a twat. That's the character. Except he's not a snivelling heel. He's a badass too-cool-to-care torture expert, or is presented as one. If he was presented as a weedy prick then fair, but he's not. He's done what Minoru f***ing Suzuki couldn't do and made Hiroshi Tanahashi tap out. And then his promos are this annoying little twerp, and in the ring he seems to constantly be wondering if he left the oven on...it just all feels like it's lacking a strong direction and character presence. Sadistic, detached torturer is a good gimmick. It's Minoru's. ZSJ doesn't do it nearly as well. I honestly don't get why him and Minoru aren't being booked the opposite way round. Let ZSJ take the IC title and develop in the midcard, hopefully learn to emote and cut a promo, while Minoru's head-shaving causes him to go postal and just start pulling apart everyone's favourites on the path to the Cup and Okada. It'd make much more sense to me, and Suzuzki challenging Okada would also be much more interesting IMO, as the title change is both more plausible and more appealing. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 29, 2018 9:02:02 GMT -5
I think the last thing I'd want is for him to bulk up. For one, it'd likely compromise his ring style, and secondly he'd stand out a lost less to me. I said in another thread that I view him as if he's a special character in a NJPW-themed fighting game, the one who's a glass cannon - can beat you before you know it, but is susceptible to being put down if the larger fighters around him can string a few combos together. The challenge is just being able to actually do those combos when Sabre's bread and butter is cutting you off via limb manipulation.
I fully agree that the best thing about him joining Suzuki-Gun is that it gave his ring style a sense of purpose, and so far it works for me. Seeing his match last year against Ishii at the G1 Special was a ton of fun, his run in this year's NJ Cup was awesome to me, and his look/style makes him distinct from the rest of the roster in a positive way. I agree with those who say that an entire card with Sabre's style as the core in-ring style wouldn't work, but dropping him in the middle of a company built on strong style mixed with southern US in-ring theatrics makes him stand out and gives purpose to his "grab a limb and twist" style.
That said, yes, I agree that he doesn't make use of his facial expressions to the level he should; it's one of those things that keeps him from being able to get to that Bryan Danielson tier of performance, where a wrestler is fully aware of every detail of what they're doing (moves, callbacks to earlier sequences, facial expressions, words and mannerisms, etc.). But I do think his promos of late have been solid, and I feel like Taka speaking for him to the Japanese audience serves to make him come off like this secret weapon that Suzuki-Gun has, the guy who works a style that's so alien to mainstream puroresu that his presence in and of itself is a storyline about his opponents having to figure out ways to work around him and that style.
So yeah, maybe I wouldn't be as charitable if I watched Sabre in more places, and I never watched the CWC, but for the purposes of NJPW I think he's a fascinating addition to the roster and to the "world" and storytelling atmosphere they've put together.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 29, 2018 11:55:04 GMT -5
That's the point. That's like complaining about any sniveling heel being too annoying. Or for the Blackpool rough as Regal pretending to be posh. He's a twat. That's the character. Except he's not a snivelling heel. He's a badass too-cool-to-care torture expert, or is presented as one. If he was presented as a weedy prick then fair, but he's not. He's done what Minoru f***ing Suzuki couldn't do and made Hiroshi Tanahashi tap out. And then his promos are this annoying little twerp, and in the ring he seems to constantly be wondering if he left the oven on...it just all feels like it's lacking a strong direction and character presence. Sadistic, detached torturer is a good gimmick. It's Minoru's. ZSJ doesn't do it nearly as well. I honestly don't get why him and Minoru aren't being booked the opposite way round. Let ZSJ take the IC title and develop in the midcard, hopefully learn to emote and cut a promo, while Minoru's head-shaving causes him to go postal and just start pulling apart everyone's favourites on the path to the Cup and Okada. It'd make much more sense to me, and Suzuzki challenging Okada would also be much more interesting IMO, as the title change is both more plausible and more appealing. Problem in that is we’ve seen Okada/Minoru a few times including last year when Suzuki Gun came back. Minoru building up the Midcard with the OC title is perfect for him at this point |
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Apr 1, 2018 2:11:36 GMT -5
That's the point. That's like complaining about any sniveling heel being too annoying. Or for the Blackpool rough as Regal pretending to be posh. He's a twat. That's the character. Except he's not a snivelling heel. He's a badass too-cool-to-care torture expert, or is presented as one. If he was presented as a weedy prick then fair, but he's not. He's done what Minoru f***ing Suzuki couldn't do and made Hiroshi Tanahashi tap out. And then his promos are this annoying little twerp, and in the ring he seems to constantly be wondering if he left the oven on...it just all feels like it's lacking a strong direction and character presence. Sadistic, detached torturer is a good gimmick. It's Minoru's. ZSJ doesn't do it nearly as well. I honestly don't get why him and Minoru aren't being booked the opposite way round. Let ZSJ take the IC title and develop in the midcard, hopefully learn to emote and cut a promo, while Minoru's head-shaving causes him to go postal and just start pulling apart everyone's favourites on the path to the Cup and Okada. It'd make much more sense to me, and Suzuzki challenging Okada would also be much more interesting IMO, as the title change is both more plausible and more appealing. To appeal to the British audience maybe since the UK tour was just announced? |
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