MWC
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,824
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Post by MWC on Jun 15, 2018 10:40:17 GMT -5
Hopefully WWE don't end up blocking AAA or ROH from running there. It would be an interesting experiment to watch play out, just to see what kind of a crowd either promotion could draw there. Keep in mind there's only one time ROH has drawn over 5,000 people in its history. I know All In "sold out" 10,000 tickets, but we don't yet know how many of those actually went to scalper sites, and how many were bought by actual people planning to attend. I'd like to see what a big ROH show could potentially draw at MSG. This is legitimately every event no matter the genre. They sold 10,000 tickets and you can't get even a single ticket through the venue. There might be a few released the day of after they take away production holds, but the event is sold out. I don't understand why everyone wants to put this show on an island in regards to this. It happens everywhere and to everything. The ticket money for Cody/Bucks at this point is the same whether there are 10,000 people in the seats or 5,000. Just because Imagine Dragons sold out a local venue near me (12,000 seats) and there are 4,000 tickets on the secondary market doesn't make the show unsuccessful if there are only 8,000 people in the seats. The money is already in their pockets and that show will be considered a success. There's always going to be people trying to make a few dollars on a hot ticket. There's always going to be a few seats that were so overpriced on the secondary market that don't sell leading to either that specific seat being empty or the original buyer opting to attend. This will apply to ROH running MSG even. There will be tickets sold that are placed on the secondary market (especially floor seats) even if there are a bunch of tickets available through the venue. But nobody would be claiming failure to ROH if they somehow sold 18,000 tickets at MSG (which is unlikely) and debating the merits of how many seats are on the secondary market. Everyone would be blown away by them selling that amount of seats and praising them. I'm not using this as a personal attack. I just don't understand why All-In is being held on that ground when this is the case for almost everything else in the country from concerts to even Wrestlemania.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 11:17:03 GMT -5
Hopefully WWE don't end up blocking AAA or ROH from running there. It would be an interesting experiment to watch play out, just to see what kind of a crowd either promotion could draw there. Keep in mind there's only one time ROH has drawn over 5,000 people in its history. I know All In "sold out" 10,000 tickets, but we don't yet know how many of those actually went to scalper sites, and how many were bought by actual people planning to attend. I'd like to see what a big ROH show could potentially draw at MSG. This is legitimately every event no matter the genre. They sold 10,000 tickets and you can't get even a single ticket through the venue. There might be a few released the day of after they take away production holds, but the event is sold out. I don't understand why everyone wants to put this show on an island in regards to this. It happens everywhere and to everything. The ticket money for Cody/Bucks at this point is the same whether there are 10,000 people in the seats or 5,000. Just because Imagine Dragons sold out a local venue near me (12,000 seats) and there are 4,000 tickets on the secondary market doesn't make the show unsuccessful if there are only 8,000 people in the seats. The money is already in their pockets and that show will be considered a success. There's always going to be people trying to make a few dollars on a hot ticket. There's always going to be a few seats that were so overpriced on the secondary market that don't sell leading to either that specific seat being empty or the original buyer opting to attend. This will apply to ROH running MSG even. There will be tickets sold that are placed on the secondary market (especially floor seats) even if there are a bunch of tickets available through the venue. But nobody would be claiming failure to ROH if they somehow sold 18,000 tickets at MSG (which is unlikely) and debating the merits of how many seats are on the secondary market. Everyone would be blown away by them selling that amount of seats and praising them. I'm not using this as a personal attack. I just don't understand why All-In is being held on that ground when this is the case for almost everything else in the country from concerts to even Wrestlemania. It's valid to bring up the subject if part of the logic for a company like ROH deciding to attempt running at MSG is that All In "sold 10,000 tickets," and therefore it's reasonable to think that they can now draw 10,000+ because there's suddenly a bigger market for a product like that than we've seen over the years. We don't know that 10,000 wrestling fans are showing up at All In. Sure, they got all of their money from sales of tickets, even if thousands were bought by scalpers, but in that article, mentioning the 10,000 number as reason to run an 18,000-20,000 seat building because they think a bigger fan base is now there... well, those simply aren't numbers to bank on. History has proven that most big ROH shows draw below 3,000. For all anybody knows at this point, the number of actual human beings interested in attending All In is around 6,000. If that's the real number of die hard, dedicated fans to attend something like All In or a huge ROH show, and that's the real number of people who would show up at the Garden, that would be embarrassing. 6,000 people in an 18,000-20,000 seat venue would look empty. And that's if they're lucky enough to draw as big of a crowd as All In. ROH shows in NYC typically peak at 2,500. I want to see them have the ability to try, though. Hopefully WWE doesn't block them.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 15, 2018 11:33:12 GMT -5
In a bizarre way I almost think running the bigger venue might lead to bigger hype and thus to bigger ticket sales. I think part of the All In success was the whole "We want to fill a 10,000 seat building!" I think it might be a mistake to do it the same night as NXT. I would do it the same night as the Hall of Fame. They do need some sort of ultra big match for it though. I'm not 100% sure what that match would be though, unless it is to do another Omega/Okada deal.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 15, 2018 11:38:32 GMT -5
This would be the first time since the 60's that someone with a last name other than McMahon ran a wrestling show in MSG. So we should be expecting a reveal that Declan bought Ring of Honor? Just for maximum irony it turns out Aurora Rose bought it out from under him
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jun 15, 2018 11:42:24 GMT -5
Hopefully WWE don't end up blocking AAA or ROH from running there. It would be an interesting experiment to watch play out, just to see what kind of a crowd either promotion could draw there. Keep in mind there's only one time ROH has drawn over 5,000 people in its history. I know All In "sold out" 10,000 tickets, but we don't yet know how many of those actually went to scalper sites, and how many were bought by actual people planning to attend. I'd like to see what a big ROH show could potentially draw at MSG. This is legitimately every event no matter the genre. They sold 10,000 tickets and you can't get even a single ticket through the venue. There might be a few released the day of after they take away production holds, but the event is sold out. I don't understand why everyone wants to put this show on an island in regards to this. It happens everywhere and to everything. The ticket money for Cody/Bucks at this point is the same whether there are 10,000 people in the seats or 5,000. Just because Imagine Dragons sold out a local venue near me (12,000 seats) and there are 4,000 tickets on the secondary market doesn't make the show unsuccessful if there are only 8,000 people in the seats. The money is already in their pockets and that show will be considered a success. There's always going to be people trying to make a few dollars on a hot ticket. There's always going to be a few seats that were so overpriced on the secondary market that don't sell leading to either that specific seat being empty or the original buyer opting to attend. This will apply to ROH running MSG even. There will be tickets sold that are placed on the secondary market (especially floor seats) even if there are a bunch of tickets available through the venue. But nobody would be claiming failure to ROH if they somehow sold 18,000 tickets at MSG (which is unlikely) and debating the merits of how many seats are on the secondary market. Everyone would be blown away by them selling that amount of seats and praising them. I'm not using this as a personal attack. I just don't understand why All-In is being held on that ground when this is the case for almost everything else in the country from concerts to even Wrestlemania. Because All In isn't about "is the show profitable?". The point the Bucks were trying to prove is that they can get 10,000 people into an arena. Now, without knowing what's on the secondary market, we'll have to wait to see how many make it the day of the show. Yes, they made their money, no, they haven't proven their point.
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MWC
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,824
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Post by MWC on Jun 15, 2018 12:22:46 GMT -5
This is legitimately every event no matter the genre. They sold 10,000 tickets and you can't get even a single ticket through the venue. There might be a few released the day of after they take away production holds, but the event is sold out. I don't understand why everyone wants to put this show on an island in regards to this. It happens everywhere and to everything. The ticket money for Cody/Bucks at this point is the same whether there are 10,000 people in the seats or 5,000. Just because Imagine Dragons sold out a local venue near me (12,000 seats) and there are 4,000 tickets on the secondary market doesn't make the show unsuccessful if there are only 8,000 people in the seats. The money is already in their pockets and that show will be considered a success. There's always going to be people trying to make a few dollars on a hot ticket. There's always going to be a few seats that were so overpriced on the secondary market that don't sell leading to either that specific seat being empty or the original buyer opting to attend. This will apply to ROH running MSG even. There will be tickets sold that are placed on the secondary market (especially floor seats) even if there are a bunch of tickets available through the venue. But nobody would be claiming failure to ROH if they somehow sold 18,000 tickets at MSG (which is unlikely) and debating the merits of how many seats are on the secondary market. Everyone would be blown away by them selling that amount of seats and praising them. I'm not using this as a personal attack. I just don't understand why All-In is being held on that ground when this is the case for almost everything else in the country from concerts to even Wrestlemania. It's valid to bring up the subject if part of the logic for a company like ROH deciding to attempt running at MSG is that All In "sold 10,000 tickets," and therefore it's reasonable to think that they can now draw 10,000+ because there's suddenly a bigger market for a product like that than we've seen over the years. We don't know that 10,000 wrestling fans are showing up at All In. Sure, they got all of their money from sales of tickets, even if thousands were bought by scalpers, but in that article, mentioning the 10,000 number as reason to run an 18,000-20,000 seat building because they think a bigger fan base is now there... well, those simply aren't numbers to bank on. History has proven that most big ROH shows draw below 3,000. For all anybody knows at this point, the number of actual human beings interested in attending All In is around 6,000. If that's the real number of die hard, dedicated fans to attend something like All In or a huge ROH show, and that's the real number of people who would show up at the Garden, that would be embarrassing. 6,000 people in an 18,000-20,000 seat venue would look empty. And that's if they're lucky enough to draw as big of a crowd as All In. ROH shows in NYC typically peak at 2,500. I want to see them have the ability to try, though. Hopefully WWE doesn't block them. This I can get on board with from the ROH perspective and I understand that point in regards to attendance. Especially with All-In not being considered as a ROH show until that article dropped it in there. I don't think anyone expects ROH to sell 18,000 tickets at MSG if they are able to run there based on their history. I've been a huge fan of that company since the day it started and I wouldn't even believe it. Hell, I would be impressed if they hit the 10,000 tickets sold like All-In. I was blown away walking into the show in New Orleans and seeing 6,000 people at an ROH show, when my first ROH show had 300 people in it at the St. Paul Armory. 10,000 would be incredible. My guess on this, and a total guess, is that MSG offered a bit of a break on the venue with WWE not running anything there. MSG would still get paid a ton, but grants a bit of a discount to get some wrestling in their building over Mania weekend. Part of it in spite WWE for not doing anything at what has been their traditional home in New York until Barclays opened, and the other part to not miss an opportunity. 5,000 people and a payday for MSG is better than no event and no money. I misinterpreted your original message in not looking at it in that direction. I've just seen many people discount what the Bucks/Cody have done by selling 10,000 tickets. At this point I don't think those three are really focused on making sure every seat has something or someone in it. They've been able to focus now on the actual event, card, and production. If there is 9,700 instead of 10,000 people in there, I don't think they're really going to be disappointed when those extra 300 tickets were sold. Whether it was their point "to put 10,000 people in the building" to begin with or not, business is business.
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Jun 15, 2018 13:07:29 GMT -5
ROH will do everything in their power to get this event to happen and then have it main evented by Dalton Castle vs. Beer City Bruiser.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jun 15, 2018 23:19:53 GMT -5
ROH will do everything in their power to get this event to happen and then have it main evented by Dalton Castle vs. Beer City Bruiser. The World Title won't be on the line because their World Champ is in a tag team match. Their Tag Team titles won't be on the line because their tag champs are in singles matches. And the main event will feature a top NJPW star who won't appear for the company again for another six months.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
Jamaican WCF Crazy!
Half Man-Half Amazing
Posts: 27,214
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jun 16, 2018 1:48:15 GMT -5
WWE's likely bitter someone else is using the place they practically abandoned.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jun 16, 2018 1:59:38 GMT -5
ROH will do everything in their power to get this event to happen and then have it main evented by Dalton Castle vs. Beer City Bruiser. I am still utterly floored that they thought Dalton Castle vs. Marty Scrull for the ROH World title should somehow close the show over Cody vs. Kenny Omega. Especially when Takeover was actually making the correct decision at the exact same time to have their big title take the semi-main because they recognized the big interest in the show was Gargano and Ciampa.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 16, 2018 2:36:13 GMT -5
WWE's likely bitter someone else is using the place they practically abandoned. As stated earlier in the thread they haven't abandoned it at all. It's still pretty much their big house show spot. The After Christmas show is there and treated like a massive deal with the company, they had a title change there last year. Randy Orton returned from his injury in 2016 at MSG attacking Seth Rollins that they put on all over their facebook and the .com, even though Orton didn't come back for like 3 months on TV. they don't film Television there because it's massively expensive to run Television there and with the remodel they took out the more defining features like the short ramp, and when there is a cheaper and just as easy to get to arena like the Barclay's center it's really not surprising they chose that over MSG. and Hell I would fully expect the WWE to run the Theater at MSG for the Hall of Fame next year.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jun 19, 2018 10:50:17 GMT -5
As previously noted on PWInsider.com, the Garden has been reaching out to other wrestling companies as WWE has not been running at the venue consistently, choosing instead to run the Barclays Center in Brooklyn.
Lucha libre promotion AAA out of Mexico had also secured several dates for The Garden for the fall of 2018. There is no word yet whether AAA's potential dates have been canceled by the Garden as well.
If any promotion does end up running Madison Square Garden, they will become the first pro wrestling company to run the legendary "Mecca of sports-entertainment" outside of the McMahon Family dating back to 1925, when Vince McMahon’s grandfather Roderick “Jess” McMahon became the matchmaker for both professional wrestling and boxing in the venue.
While WCW, AAA and even the original Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling ran the adjacent Theater in the MSG complex, no promotion outside of WWE has been able to book a date in the 20,789-seat Garden.
PWInsider.com has reached out to WWE for comment.
The entire Joe Koff interview will be available for PWInsider.com Elite subscribers. You can subscribe by clicking here.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 11:06:45 GMT -5
Something tells me they promised WM or promised to run one of the other big 4 in MSG.
Either way petty as f*** on their part but totally expected...still hoping AAA gets to run it....and I said it before ROH , NJPW , CMLL , LU , AAA all need to get together and just have one giant show together in MSG....a show that loaded there is no way MSG turns them down even with WWE in their ear.
ROH on their own was always gonna be an easy denial for MSG once WWE came calling.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 11,660
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Post by Facetious on Jun 19, 2018 11:08:53 GMT -5
Petty patrol out in full force. I didn't really expect a huge turnout for ROH, but I do feel bad.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 19, 2018 11:17:16 GMT -5
Vince on that Breaking Bad ish. "Stay out of my territory"
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jun 19, 2018 11:29:37 GMT -5
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame
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Post by MrElijah on Jun 19, 2018 11:35:26 GMT -5
Guitar Jimmy knew what the hell he was doing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 11:35:29 GMT -5
So goofy. I have no idea why these shows would matter to them.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 19, 2018 11:35:46 GMT -5
Vince won't be happy until every other promotion is dead, and then he'll wonder why he can't find good wrestlers anymore.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 19, 2018 11:40:15 GMT -5
This is legitimately every event no matter the genre. They sold 10,000 tickets and you can't get even a single ticket through the venue. There might be a few released the day of after they take away production holds, but the event is sold out. I don't understand why everyone wants to put this show on an island in regards to this. It happens everywhere and to everything. The ticket money for Cody/Bucks at this point is the same whether there are 10,000 people in the seats or 5,000. Just because Imagine Dragons sold out a local venue near me (12,000 seats) and there are 4,000 tickets on the secondary market doesn't make the show unsuccessful if there are only 8,000 people in the seats. The money is already in their pockets and that show will be considered a success. There's always going to be people trying to make a few dollars on a hot ticket. There's always going to be a few seats that were so overpriced on the secondary market that don't sell leading to either that specific seat being empty or the original buyer opting to attend. This will apply to ROH running MSG even. There will be tickets sold that are placed on the secondary market (especially floor seats) even if there are a bunch of tickets available through the venue. But nobody would be claiming failure to ROH if they somehow sold 18,000 tickets at MSG (which is unlikely) and debating the merits of how many seats are on the secondary market. Everyone would be blown away by them selling that amount of seats and praising them. I'm not using this as a personal attack. I just don't understand why All-In is being held on that ground when this is the case for almost everything else in the country from concerts to even Wrestlemania. Because All In isn't about "is the show profitable?". The point the Bucks were trying to prove is that they can get 10,000 people into an arena. Now, without knowing what's on the secondary market, we'll have to wait to see how many make it the day of the show. Yes, they made their money, no, they haven't proven their point. They sold out in 45 minutes with thousands trying to buy tickets. They've proved their point, unless half of the tickets were bought by scalpers and everyone complaining about trying to get tickets were also scalpers. Shit, just look at Stubhub right now. Less than a 10th of the venue is up for resale, and prices are through the roof. ROH probably couldn't pull in the 21K for a show at MSG, but there is a market for indy wrestling with the right promotion
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