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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 10, 2018 1:07:53 GMT -5
Kinda sucks but at least he could be open to be a potential Marvel superhero
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 10, 2018 1:10:41 GMT -5
It's sad really. The DCEU legitimately could've been bigger and better than Marvel in hindsight. That's the thing. Marvel may have started their universe first, but DC had a huge head start by virtue of the fact that the word superhero is synonymous with Batman and Superman, and no comic book villain was anywhere near the Joker's level, especially post-Ledger. Hell, Marvel were even starting behind Fox and Sony, who had control of their A-list characters. What they have managed to do with their B, C, and D-list characters is astounding, while DC have taken their A-list characters and failed in an equally astounding way.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 10, 2018 1:12:30 GMT -5
Kinda sucks but at least he could be open to be a potential Marvel superhero Who? Cavill?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 10, 2018 1:13:09 GMT -5
I don't think Affleck is getting in shape to play Batman any time soon. "The Batman" was reportedly using a younger version of the character. Since starting at Dark Knight Returns was always stupid. Also I wouldn't call anything about MoS a good anything. I enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. It was a decent start to the universe and could've been built upon in a better fashion with a director who had a greater understanding of Superman. Superman killing Zod could've pushed him to become a symbol of hope and to never take another life again. At least if it went in that direction it would've made sense as to why he was against Batman's brutal methods in BvS. But again they wanted the results without doing any of the hard work. If anything Man of Steel needed a sequel to flesh out the character, build him up as the symbol of hope, Aquaman or Wonder Woman could've came after, Batman introduced in a Worlds Finest fashion, and then they could've did the Justice League. Zod being in the movie at all and killing him the way they did is part of the problem. Zod does not work as superman's first enemy. His entire purpose is showing the world how lucky they are Superman is the peaceful Kansas farm boy. Cause if he was even a hair more interested in being a world leader there is very little that could stop him. And killing zod in universe is not the big shock of Superman kills someone... when they don't know who he is. If it was the second movie or they played it with Superman was active for a few years it'd work. But as it was it really doesn't. Not to mention things like the first 10 minutes ruining the entire nature vs nurture plot they were going with. That nod being genetically superior cause he was bred to be a soldier vs Clark who was naturally birthed from two scientists... that loses all meaning when the badass super soldier gets his ass handed to him by the scientist. But I stated my problems with the movie multiple times probably in this topic.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 10, 2018 1:38:23 GMT -5
Kinda sucks but at least he could be open to be a potential Marvel superhero Who? Cavill?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 10, 2018 2:05:41 GMT -5
I enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. It was a decent start to the universe and could've been built upon in a better fashion with a director who had a greater understanding of Superman. Superman killing Zod could've pushed him to become a symbol of hope and to never take another life again. At least if it went in that direction it would've made sense as to why he was against Batman's brutal methods in BvS. But again they wanted the results without doing any of the hard work. If anything Man of Steel needed a sequel to flesh out the character, build him up as the symbol of hope, Aquaman or Wonder Woman could've came after, Batman introduced in a Worlds Finest fashion, and then they could've did the Justice League. Zod being in the movie at all and killing him the way they did is part of the problem. Zod does not work as superman's first enemy. His entire purpose is showing the world how lucky they are Superman is the peaceful Kansas farm boy. Cause if he was even a hair more interested in being a world leader there is very little that could stop him. And killing zod in universe is not the big shock of Superman kills someone... when they don't know who he is. If it was the second movie or they played it with Superman was active for a few years it'd work. But as it was it really doesn't. Not to mention things like the first 10 minutes ruining the entire nature vs nurture plot they were going with. That nod being genetically superior cause he was bred to be a soldier vs Clark who was naturally birthed from two scientists... that loses all meaning when the badass super soldier gets his ass handed to him by the scientist. But I stated my problems with the movie multiple times probably in this topic. It can be tough thinking of who to put as a first movie villain for Superman, given how grand a lot of his villains are. Maybe we could see Livewire in a Superman movie sometime, or I guess Metallo, maybe.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 10, 2018 2:26:37 GMT -5
Zod being in the movie at all and killing him the way they did is part of the problem. Zod does not work as superman's first enemy. His entire purpose is showing the world how lucky they are Superman is the peaceful Kansas farm boy. Cause if he was even a hair more interested in being a world leader there is very little that could stop him. And killing zod in universe is not the big shock of Superman kills someone... when they don't know who he is. If it was the second movie or they played it with Superman was active for a few years it'd work. But as it was it really doesn't. Not to mention things like the first 10 minutes ruining the entire nature vs nurture plot they were going with. That nod being genetically superior cause he was bred to be a soldier vs Clark who was naturally birthed from two scientists... that loses all meaning when the badass super soldier gets his ass handed to him by the scientist. But I stated my problems with the movie multiple times probably in this topic. It can be tough thinking of who to put as a first movie villain for Superman, given how grand a lot of his villains are. Maybe we could see Livewire in a Superman movie sometime, or I guess Metallo, maybe. Metallo could work, or parasite. You could probably do Brainiac potentially especially if you do the animated series origin. But a lot could be saved by not being an origin film.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 10, 2018 2:27:07 GMT -5
Kinda sucks but at least he could be open to be a potential Marvel superhero Who? Cavill? Cavill as Magneto would be dope.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 10, 2018 2:34:10 GMT -5
It can be tough thinking of who to put as a first movie villain for Superman, given how grand a lot of his villains are. Maybe we could see Livewire in a Superman movie sometime, or I guess Metallo, maybe. Metallo could work, or parasite. You could probably do Brainiac potentially especially if you do the animated series origin. But a lot could be saved by not being an origin film. Unfortunately, next Superman probably needs an origin, or at least, him visiting his folks, since they need to redeem the Kents now. They kinda need to establish that in virtually no other Superman stories is their stance, "You know, Clark, f*** everyone. You owe no one anything, and being a hero would just be a hassle. If they die, they die."
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Post by DSR on Dec 10, 2018 2:52:59 GMT -5
Metallo could work, or parasite. You could probably do Brainiac potentially especially if you do the animated series origin. But a lot could be saved by not being an origin film. Unfortunately, next Superman probably needs an origin, or at least, him visiting his folks, since they need to redeem the Kents now. They kinda need to establish that in virtually no other Superman stories is their stance, "You know, Clark, f*** everyone. You owe no one anything, and being a hero would just be a hassle. If they die, they die." Okay, now I want Dolph Lundgren to play the next Pa Kent.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 10, 2018 3:03:55 GMT -5
"You know, Clark, f*** everyone. You owe no one anything, and being a hero would just be a hassle. If they die, they die. Also we're dirty grungy ragamuffins now." Superman by Rob Zombie.
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Post by DSR on Dec 10, 2018 3:18:00 GMT -5
"You know, Clark, f*** everyone. You owe no one anything, and being a hero would just be a hassle. If they die, they die. Also we're dirty grungy ragamuffins now." Superman by Rob Zombie. Not enough f***s.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 10, 2018 3:54:59 GMT -5
Unfortunately, next Superman probably needs an origin, or at least, him visiting his folks, since they need to redeem the Kents now. They kinda need to establish that in virtually no other Superman stories is their stance, "You know, Clark, f*** everyone. You owe no one anything, and being a hero would just be a hassle. If they die, they die." Okay, now I want Dolph Lundgren to play the next Pa Kent. I mean... if they are truly doing an animated Red Son... >_>
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 10, 2018 4:44:30 GMT -5
I don't think Superman ever needs an origin again. Do it like Grant Morrison did: quick montage of Krypton, then the Kents, then boom adult Clark is in Metropolis. People know the origin. Let's get to the story. Same with the Waynes. Same with Uncle Ben.
If you're doing a less familiar hero, or even one like Wonder Woman who hasn't been in other media that much, by all means do an origin movie. We never need to see Supes, Bats, or Spidey origins again.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 10, 2018 7:54:35 GMT -5
I enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. It was a decent start to the universe and could've been built upon in a better fashion with a director who had a greater understanding of Superman. Superman killing Zod could've pushed him to become a symbol of hope and to never take another life again. At least if it went in that direction it would've made sense as to why he was against Batman's brutal methods in BvS. But again they wanted the results without doing any of the hard work. If anything Man of Steel needed a sequel to flesh out the character, build him up as the symbol of hope, Aquaman or Wonder Woman could've came after, Batman introduced in a Worlds Finest fashion, and then they could've did the Justice League. Zod being in the movie at all and killing him the way they did is part of the problem. Zod does not work as superman's first enemy. His entire purpose is showing the world how lucky they are Superman is the peaceful Kansas farm boy. Cause if he was even a hair more interested in being a world leader there is very little that could stop him. And killing zod in universe is not the big shock of Superman kills someone... when they don't know who he is. If it was the second movie or they played it with Superman was active for a few years it'd work. But as it was it really doesn't. Not to mention things like the first 10 minutes ruining the entire nature vs nurture plot they were going with. That nod being genetically superior cause he was bred to be a soldier vs Clark who was naturally birthed from two scientists... that loses all meaning when the badass super soldier gets his ass handed to him by the scientist. But I stated my problems with the movie multiple times probably in this topic. I was thinking more in the fact that the Kryptonians were all tough and bred to be fighters. But in that sense I do agree with you. There's no way Jor-El should've made Zod his whipping boy.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 10, 2018 7:57:37 GMT -5
It's sad really. The DCEU legitimately could've been bigger and better than Marvel in hindsight. That's the thing. Marvel may have started their universe first, but DC had a huge head start by virtue of the fact that the word superhero is synonymous with Batman and Superman, and no comic book villain was anywhere near the Joker's level, especially post-Ledger. Hell, Marvel were even starting behind Fox and Sony, who had control of their A-list characters. What they have managed to do with their B, C, and D-list characters is astounding, while DC have taken their A-list characters and failed in an equally astounding way. I am with you on that. I simply don't understand where everything went wrong as far as DC is concerned. We can all agree that the WB/DC wanted the results without doing the work, we all can agree that there were a ton of misfires, and it also seems like we're in agreement that they literally lucked their way into the success of Wonder Woman. What absolutely blows my mind still is how they found little to no success with Superman or Batman vs. Superman. Really it just astounds me that we're literally looking at a cinematic universe with Aquaman and Wonder Woman as the main faces. Unless that was the plan all along?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 10, 2018 9:39:54 GMT -5
I enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. It was a decent start to the universe and could've been built upon in a better fashion with a director who had a greater understanding of Superman. Superman killing Zod could've pushed him to become a symbol of hope and to never take another life again. At least if it went in that direction it would've made sense as to why he was against Batman's brutal methods in BvS. But again they wanted the results without doing any of the hard work. If anything Man of Steel needed a sequel to flesh out the character, build him up as the symbol of hope, Aquaman or Wonder Woman could've came after, Batman introduced in a Worlds Finest fashion, and then they could've did the Justice League. Zod being in the movie at all and killing him the way they did is part of the problem. Zod does not work as superman's first enemy. His entire purpose is showing the world how lucky they are Superman is the peaceful Kansas farm boy. Cause if he was even a hair more interested in being a world leader there is very little that could stop him. And killing zod in universe is not the big shock of Superman kills someone... when they don't know who he is. If it was the second movie or they played it with Superman was active for a few years it'd work. But as it was it really doesn't. Not to mention things like the first 10 minutes ruining the entire nature vs nurture plot they were going with. That nod being genetically superior cause he was bred to be a soldier vs Clark who was naturally birthed from two scientists... that loses all meaning when the badass super soldier gets his ass handed to him by the scientist. But I stated my problems with the movie multiple times probably in this topic. The worst problem is that it is boring as shit from the end of the Krypton stuff until Superman fights the Kryptonians. It is a slog. Cavill was absolutely perfect for the role. It is a shame he didn't get better films to work with. Like Pierce Brosnan and James Bond, but at least he got Goldeneye and to a lesser extent .Tomorrow Never Dies
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 10, 2018 12:19:36 GMT -5
I don't think Superman ever needs an origin again. Do it like Grant Morrison did: quick montage of Krypton, then the Kents, then boom adult Clark is in Metropolis. People know the origin. Let's get to the story. Same with the Waynes. Same with Uncle Ben. If you're doing a less familiar hero, or even one like Wonder Woman who hasn't been in other media that much, by all means do an origin movie. We never need to see Supes, Bats, or Spidey origins again. I think the Dean Cain version is the perfect interpretation of Superman. Yes, he's an alien and different, but he was raised by two humans that loved him and accepted him. Krypton is acknowledged, studied over the course of the series, but doesn't influence his day to day life. He's accountable to Ma and Pa Kent, not some long dead sceptre. Clark Kent was a well adjusted, young man wanting to have a good career, a woman he could love and settle down with. Superman was something he did because he had the ability to do it and his innate goodness to help people.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 10, 2018 13:53:48 GMT -5
Zod being in the movie at all and killing him the way they did is part of the problem. Zod does not work as superman's first enemy. His entire purpose is showing the world how lucky they are Superman is the peaceful Kansas farm boy. Cause if he was even a hair more interested in being a world leader there is very little that could stop him. And killing zod in universe is not the big shock of Superman kills someone... when they don't know who he is. If it was the second movie or they played it with Superman was active for a few years it'd work. But as it was it really doesn't. Not to mention things like the first 10 minutes ruining the entire nature vs nurture plot they were going with. That nod being genetically superior cause he was bred to be a soldier vs Clark who was naturally birthed from two scientists... that loses all meaning when the badass super soldier gets his ass handed to him by the scientist. But I stated my problems with the movie multiple times probably in this topic. The worst problem is that it is boring as shit from the end of the Krypton stuff until Superman fights the Kryptonians. It is a slog. Cavill was absolutely perfect for the role. It is a shame he didn't get better films to work with. Like Pierce Brosnan and James Bond, but at least he got Goldeneye and to a lesser extent .Tomorrow Never Dies And none of the slog really lead to anything. They had the Checkov's gun moment of Clark learning to control his super senses only for it to come up once then Zod sits on a rock and figures it out on his own. All the talk of Zod as a military genius badass and he goes out of his way to screw up his own plans... not to mention again we know Clark could kick his ass because Jor-El did with no issue.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 10, 2018 13:59:11 GMT -5
I don't think Superman ever needs an origin again. Do it like Grant Morrison did: quick montage of Krypton, then the Kents, then boom adult Clark is in Metropolis. People know the origin. Let's get to the story. Same with the Waynes. Same with Uncle Ben. If you're doing a less familiar hero, or even one like Wonder Woman who hasn't been in other media that much, by all means do an origin movie. We never need to see Supes, Bats, or Spidey origins again. I think the Dean Cain version is the perfect interpretation of Superman. Yes, he's an alien and different, but he was raised by two humans that loved him and accepted him. Krypton is acknowledged, studied over the course of the series, but doesn't influence his day to day life. He's accountable to Ma and Pa Kent, not some long dead sceptre. Clark Kent was a well adjusted, young man wanting to have a good career, a woman he could love and settle down with. Superman was something he did because he had the ability to do it and his innate goodness to help people. Yeah that or the animated series. He isn't Kal-el of Krypton that's not what he thinks of himself as. He's Clark Kent of Smallville. Superman is him helping because he's the only one who can and his parents raised him to do that. To fit Pa Kent the answer to should I just let them die is not "maybe" it's "no. But you have to be careful" And you know not die needlessly in a tornado...
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