No Longer a Produceman
Dennis Stamp
Will Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Evolving into Geckoman
Posts: 4,412
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Nov 19, 2018 5:23:32 GMT -5
Obligatory Counting of the VotesJoker (2 nominations-Skull0mancer, @irontyger,) jagilki (1 nomination-Joker)With 10 participants it shall require 6 nominations to constitute an elimination.
Deadline for all ballots is Wednesday, the 21st of November, promptly at 4 in the afternoon Pacific Time
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Post by Skull0mancer on Nov 19, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -5
My case on Joker seems to have received a tepid response from the general populace. The deadline's getting close, folks. What are we all thinking right now? Joker is the only player that I'm getting substantial Scum-vibes from right now, but I'm willing to move my vote elsewhere if it means securing a lynch. I'm not interested in voting for Daime, The Brad, or Tyger right now.
Joker, I know you saw this post. I have questions that need answering, and you're just the bloke to answer 'em. If you want to convince me that you're Town, ignoring me is not going to accomplish that. Do we know there’s only one scum? If we know that to be true, then you are correct. If we don’t, and if there are two or more, then Lodi’s absence means nothing, the other scum could have called it in. What evidence do we have that there is only one scum left? I've played and modded enough Mafia games over the years to know what a proper Town-to-Scum ratio looks like. I won't get into the math behind it, but the bottom line is that if you want to have a three-person Mafia team, the game needs to be at least 13 players large. This game is only 11 players (originally 10), so a two-man team makes the most logical sense. If you want to have a three-man team in an 11-player game, you'd need to make Town really beefy to compensate for having one fewer lynch to work with. Based on what little we know of the setup so far, I don't think we're dealing with a beefy Town here. However, we know that the Mafia team has a Godfather and a Janitor who may or may not have additional abilities, so that's a pretty formidable Scum duo right there. That makes me think that we're dealing with a strong two-man Mafia team and a weaker Town instead of a weaker three-man Mafia team with a strong Town.
As for the Gus thing, I have been The Godfather before and I have ordered my partners to throw me under the bus to paint them as town, and it worked. Well, once again -- flattered and incredulous. Bussing and distancing are common strategies among Scum partners, yes, but if you or anyone else honestly believes that Gus and I are on the same team, I'm not sure what to tell you aside from, "Play more Mafia." That is not what bussing looks like. My suspicions linger on the Good Sir Big Bad Brad . The fellow has contributed little of substance to Town's inquiry into the night, was accused of a possible call to arms of the constable and other upstanding citizens of note among us, and was declared a member of the saint's panoply by the Godfather. The last point may have been subterfuge on Monsieur Richlen's part but I feel it bears consideration. Gus did seem pretty insistent that The Brad was Town, but I almost feel like he was being a bit too obvious about it for the two of them to be partners. Scum very rarely defends a partner that blatantly, especially when the partner in question hasn't really done anything to warrant a strong Town read. I think it's more likely that Gus saw The Brad as low-hanging fruit, so to speak, so that he would be an easy mislynch in the event that Gus was eliminated first. What do you think?
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Post by Skull0mancer on Nov 19, 2018 21:37:00 GMT -5
Is lodirulz being modkilled now or when Day 3 ends? I'm asking since it will affect the lynch threshold for today. If that slot is being modkilled now, I would respectfully like to request an extension of the Day 3 deadline by 24 or 48 hours.
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No Longer a Produceman
Dennis Stamp
Will Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Evolving into Geckoman
Posts: 4,412
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Nov 19, 2018 21:53:51 GMT -5
Sorry at not getting the write up done. Real life has been getting in the way. I wanted to do a write up but effective immediately lodirulz is Modkilled. He was Mary Meadows, Town Roleblocker. Deadline will be extended to 26 of November 4pm to account for the Holiday.
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Big Bad Brad
Wade Wilson
Big Bad Brad
Tournament Master
Posts: 27,409
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Post by Big Bad Brad on Nov 19, 2018 22:31:48 GMT -5
Sorry haven't posted I haven't felt good the last few days. I'm really not sure about anything I do believe Daime and Skull to be town just for how hard The Godfather Gus was going for them.
Damn we lost the roleblocker that is unfortunate we lost Jack of all trades and Roleblocker to good town roles and I'm just a normal vanilla midget (sorry had to get a wrestling reference in there lol, but seriously I'm just a normal townie)
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,522
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 20, 2018 3:41:12 GMT -5
Alright, I’m gonna go with you, Skull.
Vote: Joker
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Post by Joker on Nov 20, 2018 5:19:36 GMT -5
Ok more answers, in order of your queries. 1. It doesn't read to me like a defence, subtle or not of me. It reads like a scum player trying to shift blame away from himself. 2. Probably not in comparison to you. As in past games of Mafia (three) I have been Town cop twice and a Serial Killer. But from playing a lot of board games where subterfuge and screwing players over are required, those skills can work in the favour of the villain as other players do not expect it. 3. It's early in the game Day One and players have to decide how they are going to approach/play the game. You decided to go for the first post instant vote strategy, which you backed up with claiming the towns only weapons are a voice or a vote. My suspicion at the time felt this was very bold and worth questioning, however I didn't go in straight away as A: I thought Daime was providing enough of a response to what you were saying at the time. 4. Fun fact for you, I haven't once suggested there is a Serial Killer. Meat suggested from my post you could be one early on, Gus asked if I thought there was one in the game, then you mentioned it again in the post I am responding too. I have mentioned a Jester, Cult Leader and Survivor as my theories on TPs. 5. So at the time of that post I did not know who any players role apart from my own. I saw an aggressive series of posts towards Gus (who to me at the time I did not have a good read on). As an outsider to the discussion, I couldn't see what you were seeing in his un-cooperative answers whilst also thinking your very wordy/quoting style to be something that stood out. Thus my FOS. 6. As I said, other players were already investigating your point of view early on. I can only interact with so many players at a time. 7. I saw it was green and town with no role mentioned, I assumed that it meant he was just a vanilla town player. 8. I didn't offer an opinion because I was hoping by just putting up the vote results the quieter players might get involved. 9. Well my actions on Day 3 have been to point out Jagilki is my number one suspect due to only voting for Kevin and not Gus. Skull0mancer let's say for arguments sake Day 4 comes, I'm lynched & I flip Town. Who would be your biggest suspects? In fact I'd like everyone to answer this question. So @dante, @irontyger, jagilki, Big Bad Brad & @jonathanmicheals please respond.
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Post by Joker on Nov 20, 2018 5:21:22 GMT -5
Just so you get a notification for my question at the end of my last post Jonathan Michaels
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jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
Nobody notices him; No, we noticed him
f*** Cancer
Posts: 33,594
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Post by jagilki on Nov 20, 2018 10:30:01 GMT -5
Sounding like a broken record. But give me until a little latter in the day. Hopefully I can get some time without people bugging me offline.
Raw / SD have been my only real times of peace past few weeks. And I use those times to chill. Rest of the time, I've had family constantly bugging me and not leaving me alone.
I have a meeting with Edward Jones after work tonight, to discuss my Dads retirement accounts so I >should< be able to contribute something after that.
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jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
Nobody notices him; No, we noticed him
f*** Cancer
Posts: 33,594
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Post by jagilki on Nov 20, 2018 16:25:05 GMT -5
I would like to vote Joker, but I won't for multiple reasons.
1. Like I've said multiple times. I think we must always lynch on Day one. However, it's no longer day one, so no lynches are viable. 2. It'd be an OMGUS vote, and I don't believe in doing that. 3. I don't think he's scum.
On the flip side though. I don't think Skull is scum either. I feel it's two town members going after each other.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,522
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 20, 2018 16:58:00 GMT -5
Just so you get a notification for my question at the end of my last post Jonathan MichaelsI’m honestly not sure right now, I would have to study the thread again and see if anyone was trying to encourage you and Skull to butt heads.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 16:58:25 GMT -5
I would like to vote Joker, but I won't for multiple reasons. 1. Like I've said multiple times. I think we must always lynch on Day one. However, it's no longer day one, so no lynches are viable. 2. It'd be an OMGUS vote, and I don't believe in doing that. 3. I don't think he's scum. On the flip side though. I don't think Skull is scum either. I feel it's two town members going after each other. Where then, good sir, should we position our votes?
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Post by Skull0mancer on Nov 20, 2018 18:27:03 GMT -5
Deadline will be extended to 26 of November 4pm to account for the Holiday. Thank you, sir. 3. It's early in the game Day One and players have to decide how they are going to approach/play the game. You decided to go for the first post instant vote strategy, which you backed up with claiming the towns only weapons are a voice or a vote. My suspicion at the time felt this was very bold and worth questioning, however I didn't go in straight away as A: I thought Daime was providing enough of a response to what you were saying at the time. When you eventually did decide to question me about it directly, was it because you found Daime's efforts to be insufficient? Also, should there be a "B" to this response?
4. Fun fact for you, I haven't once suggested there is a Serial Killer. Meat suggested from my post you could be one early on, Gus asked if I thought there was one in the game, then you mentioned it again in the post I am responding too. I have mentioned a Jester, Cult Leader and Survivor as my theories on TPs. Okay, fair. You mentioned the possibility of a third party a few times, and a Serial Killer is the most common and well-known third party role, so I may have been making an assumption I shouldn't have.
As I said, other players were already investigating your point of view early on. I can only interact with so many players at a time. Ugh. This sounds exactly like something that I would say, and I hate you for that. skull0mancer let's say for arguments sake Day 4 comes, I'm lynched & I flip Town. Who would be your biggest suspects? That's the big question, huh? You were my only strong Scum read once Day 2 ended and we saw Gus flip red, so if it's not you, that means it has to be someone who's flying in my blind spots.
I have some nagging suspicions here and there, but nothing substantial at the moment. Either way, you've done a good job of making me second-guess myself, and I think that's good enough to get you off the hook for at least another day. If I'm still alive on Day 4, I'll activate tryhard mode again and see where that takes me.
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Post by Skull0mancer on Nov 20, 2018 18:27:26 GMT -5
Unvote What do you think we should do today, Joker? Do you have a case on jagilki that's based on more than just his KEVIN vote?
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jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
Nobody notices him; No, we noticed him
f*** Cancer
Posts: 33,594
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Post by jagilki on Nov 20, 2018 20:01:20 GMT -5
I would like to vote Joker, but I won't for multiple reasons. 1. Like I've said multiple times. I think we must always lynch on Day one. However, it's no longer day one, so no lynches are viable. 2. It'd be an OMGUS vote, and I don't believe in doing that. 3. I don't think he's scum. On the flip side though. I don't think Skull is scum either. I feel it's two town members going after each other. Where then, good sir, should we position our votes? Honestly I don't know. I have no extraordinary ability that would provide me an extra information and right now I just don't have any reads strong enough to risk hitting a member of the town.
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Post by Joker on Nov 22, 2018 5:45:19 GMT -5
When you eventually did decide to question me about it directly, was it because you found Daime's efforts to be insufficient? Also, should there be a "B" to this response? I felt there was more to look into/find out, so yes. There was a B: part but I decided to remove it as I felt it was a irrelevant addition, just forgot to reword the sentence. It would have been: 3.It's early in the game Day One and players have to decide how they are going to approach/play the game. You decided to go for the first post instant vote strategy, which you backed up with claiming the towns only weapons are a voice or a vote. My suspicion at the time felt this was very bold and worth questioning, however I didn't go in straight away as A: I thought Daime was providing enough of a response to what you were saying at the time and B: I was responding to various on-theme in character questions/theroies (high society girl vs peasants)Unvote What do you think we should do today, Joker? Do you have a case on jagilki that's based on more than just his KEVIN vote?
No that is a purely statistic based vote, with a slight influence by Meat saying jagilki is his backup scum read on pg 10. --- I feel Gus's overt defence of Brad might be a bit of a red herring or he being honest to keep a teammate safe, Brad has also role claimed himself to be a vanilla townie. I don't know what to make of that. --- I am trying to figure out 'If I was Scum, why would I choose Meat to kill off in the night?'. My theory is they can keep me and skull alive as our discussion/butting heads will take up too much time and might even get one of us lynched. Which plays into there hands. They also knew there was a roleblocker effect in play (from start of day two) (Lodi) so couldn't choose too obvious a target. To me this left a choice of Diame, Meat, Lodi or BT Squad (these are who I think are Town, based off interactions they have had with Gus or now being dead). They chose Meat as he was unlikely to be protected. (I am thinking this because I feel Diame or BT Squad from there writing may be more than vanilla (true or not just how I see it) so would be most likely to be saved, whilst Lodi wasn't participating so no threat (possible coin flip decision there). So apart from Jag that leaves Jonathan Michaels aka Brainbustaaa. From what I read, as BB there was an early accusation from Skull which got a somewhat defensive in character response. As JM there was an early FOS on Skull for going quiet and then a vote on me. Not much to go off there? Big Bad Brad Do you think I am scum? Sticking with my vote as it makes sense, but would switch to other options if apparent. [/quote]
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Post by Skull0mancer on Nov 23, 2018 22:59:18 GMT -5
I was kind of hoping to keep this in my back pocket until Day 4, but with the Day 3 deadline getting close and with no significant progress being made, I think I have to let this one out: I've been suspicious of Black Tyger Squadron for a while. I've been calling him Town in the hopes that he would buddy up to me, but he's been keeping me at arm's length, so I haven't really gleaned anything substantial from that. Oh well.
There are three things about Tyger that have been bothering me.
Item #1: He was instrumental in derailing the Day 1 wagon on Gus and pushing the wagon on KEVIN. Vote: TOK Is the Target Demo His infrequent contributions serve to pull down Town's fretting head like a millstone around its neck. Sinister are their effects and sinister is likely their intentions. Second on the wagon, after Joker. His reasons are tenuous -- essentially, KEVIN is Scum because he's inactive? Okay. Also encourages Beat Meat to move his vote to KEVIN here. I feel that I was one of the chief architects behind the Other Kevin's unfortunate demise. His versatility would have served to fortify Town. For that, I am penitent. However, I believe we must take an active role in deciding our fate and add to to the discussion in a vigorous and probing manner. Perhaps I undermined the Other Kevin's stratagem to stay in the shadows and work his influence from there. It's easy enough to say "Whoops, I done goofed" after the fact, but when you follow it up by saying that the solution is more "discussion in a vigorous and probing manner" and then proceed to play exactly the same for Day 2 and Day 3, well, then it just looks disingenuous. So, the obvious suspects are any of us who voted for Other Kevin. I'm obviously not going to suspect myself, and Brad is, again, almost certainly Town. That leaves jag, Daime, Tyger, and Joker. Meanwhile, BB has said next to nothing and I think needs to say something simply to not get modkilled, lodi's absence is understandable, skull, again, I think is Town, and I really don't have much of anything on you yet.I believe my actions on Day 1 exonerate me from being among the Devils that assail Town. We're I among their fold, I would not be so open with my desire for you to help procure the lynch of the poor Other Kevin. I would perhaps lure you out and not pressure you with a call of arms against you from Town. Moreover, I would wait until late in the Day to cast my vote in order to appear reluctant to do so. At this early point in Day 2, I feel there may be a connection between the Good Townsmen Brad and Daime. With all due respect, I do not feel Brad's innocence to be completely assured to the extent where he should be overlooked. Both of those fellows appear to have been awaiting for someone, perhaps each other. At the start of Day 2, Tyger explains that his presence on the KEVIN wagon makes him Town, but in my experience, Scum pushes wagons just as often as Town does, so his appearance at the start of the KEVIN wagon doesn't clear him of anything. Anyone can say, "Well, if I was Scum, I would have done it this way, but I didn't do it that way, which means I must be Town." Presenting hypothetical scenarios is a good Scum tactic since they can't actually be verified or disproved either way.
Also, despite everything that has happened up to that point in the game, Gus still doesn't have a strong opinion of Tyger (bolded). Peculiar.
Item #2: He asks "Who should we look at next?" a lot.
Examples of this can be found here (asking Gus), here (asking Gus), here (asking jagilki), here (asking Bear Meat), here (asking Gus), here (asking The Brad), and here (asking jagilki). Asking the other players for guidance on who to target next is not scummy in and of itself, but when it happens again and again, and when the person asking does not seem to discriminate between asking both their Town reads and their Scum reads, it does start to look a little suspicious. Asking other players for their reads and asking them who they think should be targeted next are both easy ways to appear busy and engaging without actually being busy and engaging.
Item #3: Interactions with Gus .... I'm not seeing any contradiction here. While I cannot glean your particular brand of fidelity to Town or Anarchy, there does not appear to be a contradiction to the logic your post employed. I do question the relevancy of your words to our particular situation, however. I pointed out the contradiction in Gus's Town-read of me and Tyger slides in this subtle defense of Gus before I can elaborate. In his next post, however, we get this:
FOS: Gus Richlen + MileenaI sense a tendency for this fellow to stick in the shadows and wait out the results of our sallying forth. I am no by means adamant that he has the worse intentions for town, but I feel his retorts to be glib and elusive. This is after I explain the contradiction in Gus's read but before Gus responds. It's a good opportunity for a Scum player to put some distance between himself and his partner, especially if his partner provides a response that would give him a reason to remove that FOS without it looking too unnatural. Said "sallying forth" has been a lot of flinging things at the wall and seeing what sticks. At this point, only two or three people haven't either gotten votes or FOS, and all it does is make an absolute mess that is not going to get better on Day Two and just makes it easier for scum to pick us off once we sink into a metric ton of blindly pointing fingers. Do you want a Day One lynch or not? We could wait a week and do nothing, lose a guaranteed Town member, and see ourselves no better. You talk about blindly pointing fingers but saying and doing nothing is even worse. I liked this post at the time since it reflected my own thoughts on the overall lack of voting pressure on Day 1. Looking back with the knowledge that Tyger is speaking to someone that flipped Scum, I can't help but wonder if Tyger is trying to give his partner some advice with this post -- like he's telling Gus to start voting and pressing people or else everyone is just going to accuse him of skating by from the shadows. If we were to vote right now, I would say it would be between Gus Richlen & OTHER Kevin. I believe Daime is reading pretty town, so it's concerning that Gus is battling him so hard. I do think he is trying to defend himself, but it seems like he's pushing too hard. The retaliation FOS is still on my mind for Kevin, I can't get past that part. What say you? Gentleman Richlen is a puzzle but the pieces are yet unconnected. Moreover, the picture they assemble may be of a noble counteance. The Other Kevin may be the Hyde of a counterpart Jekyll. He is also of the secret set and might prove illuminating if led out to the open. Bit of a wishy-washy opinion of Gus here. "I don't know about Gus yet, but he might be Town, maybe?" Leaves plenty of wiggle room.
With only days left to place a vote, who are you looking at voting for, if not Daime? That's the problem. The only solid scum read I had was on him. The rest of it is as follows: skull: Town but almost certainly going to do what I did in True Blood Mafia and alienate himself from the rest of Town, and I wish I knew what I could say or do to get him to change course, if it's even possible at this point jag: Not enough for a read The Brad: 100% Town THE OTHERKEVINDAYYYYYYYYY: Probably the next most likely scum pick considering his vote following Daime and also considering Joker's line of thought Joker: Almost certainly Town Brainbustaaah: Not enough for a read lodirulz: Not enough for a read You: Leaning Town but not sure Gus mentions everybody in the game except Tyger. What a strange exclusion. Seriously, why me? Is it because you're going off of someone's personal witchhunt against me? Because I really want to know what I have to say or do to change your mind. skull's entire claim against me is based off his refusal to listen to anything I've said and his insistence on hounding me over something I said as a piece of well-intended advice at the very start of Day One that I admitted didn't come across well because I haven't played a Mafia game in years and thus is rust. I explained myself and he still wants to go for my head despite me telling him the truth and telling him he was making a mistake that was going to result in him being a pariah. What do I have to say to you to get you to not vote for me? You will be easier to lynch. Simple as that at this point in the game. Are you willing to vote for someone else that we have a chance of lynching? If you are, vote for the Other Kevin. I'll stay on him, and I imagine Joker will as well. Otherwise, there are no other viable targets for Day One. I understand you don't like skull's focus on you and you're worried about getting lynched. However, you are just one player. Focus on getting a lynch. Every Town life is expendable until we get to the last one. Don't worry about proving yourself innocent with words but take action to get Town a lynch. We either get scum or we get rid of a player who only says that'll they'll get back to us later. There is no later. Also, these players with one or two posts of substance over a week are either scum or someone in Town's way. End of story. More coaching, perhaps? Also, Tyger is giving Gus a reason to join the KEVIN wagon without it appearing too incriminating. See Item #1.
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Post by Skull0mancer on Nov 23, 2018 22:59:41 GMT -5
Vote: Black Tyger Squadron The Brad is Town. Gus insisted that Brad was Town several times, and I have a hard time seeing Scum defending their partner so aggressively and so consistently. I think it's more likely that he did so because he thought Brad was lynch-bait and defending him like that would make people more likely to go after Brad if Gus went down first. Also, just from observing Brad's overall demeanor and approach to the game, he strikes me as a newer Town player who doesn't really know what he's doing and is just along for the ride. (Sorry, Brad.) Daime is Town for his Day 1 interactions with Gus and for the reasons I highlighted here. Nothing has changed since then. I think jagilki is Town. He had a chance to hammer Joker here and he didn't take it despite the fact that Joker was gunning for him. Either he's Scum playing it safe and keeping his long-term options open (which would require a level of skill and advanced planning that, quite frankly, I have yet to see him exhibit)...or he's just Town. I'm gonna go with the simpler option. Jonathan Michaels has only done one thing I didn't like, but overall, his play has been solid enough that I haven't had a reason to look at him too closely. He also replaced Brainbustah, whose early response to my page 1 vote on him struck me as quite genuine.
So, really, from my perspective, the only viable choices today are either Joker or Tyger, and as I mentioned earlier, Joker has done a good enough job of making me second-guess myself that I no longer want to lynch him today. My case on Tyger is weaker than my case on Joker, I'll admit, but I'm not seeing any better suggestions, so take it or leave it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 8:39:45 GMT -5
At this junction, I am willing to drop my shroud for Town. I am the Town doctor. I protected the esteemed Meat on Day One and then Skull0mancer on Day 2.
Lynch me if you feel confident that I am being devious but, either way, it will benefit Town.
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No Longer a Produceman
Dennis Stamp
Will Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Evolving into Geckoman
Posts: 4,412
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Nov 24, 2018 12:43:07 GMT -5
Obligatory Counting of the VotesJoker (2 nominations-@irontyger, Jonathan Michaels) jagilki (1 nomination-Joker) @irontyger (1 nomination-Skull0mancer)With 7 participants it shall require 4 nominations to constitute an elimination.
Deadline for all ballots is Monday, the 26th of November, promptly at 4 in the afternoon Pacific Time
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