Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 16, 2018 3:01:58 GMT -5
Jeff by a mile because his decisions had an actual impact on the success or moreso the non success of the company.The Knockouts divison in Truth was never really that important it kinda just existed as a vehicle to push past their past prime or wwe castoffs or for the writers to get off by having pretty girls act like strippers & call eachother horrible names.Meanwhile the only people that thought Jeff was a main eventer was Jeff himself and the people he paid to book him as a main eventer before tna he was a career midcarder at best in WWF and in 2000 when wcw gave him a big main event push nobody bought it and the company was dead the next so 1 year after that him thinking making himself the star of his new promotion was the height of delusion and it sacrificed the growth of some talented younger talent within his company aswell as the success of his company as a whole I’m not saying Jeff isn’t talented because he is but not everyone is a main event level star in a company that hopes to be successful on a national scope and I still believe wwf used him correctly as a IC or Tag Champ title level guy Actually, the Knockouts were often one of the highest rated segments, if not the highest, at their peak. They were legitimately a big part of the show's success at its high points. They weren't treated accordingly, though, so it didn't last.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Nov 16, 2018 3:55:56 GMT -5
I'm going with Gail because it felt like she was insisting or demanding to get her way. I think she was really annoyed WWE didn't hand her the world when she came back and was dead set on being vindicated as the legend she sees herself as being and demanded to be booked in a way to reflect that. She won nearly all of her matches, went 50/50 with monster heels on top of that, everyone from wrestlers to the announcers were singing her praises all the time. Gail was making herself the focal point when that spotlight should have been on other girls. Like it was mentioned, the moment Allie should have had over Maria, went to Gail instead. Gail never even put anyone over on her way out, or even at all. Jarrett was bad, but arguably, he was the best option to go with. The only time for sure I think his ego got in the way and totally killed someone's momentum was Monty Brown. AJ was jerked around his entire career in Impact during and after Jarrett. I look at Jarrett's reign of terror similar to Triple H's in 2003.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 4:19:58 GMT -5
Jeff at least moved aside as he got older (partially due to losing power I'd assume) but later on he was doing jobs, working hard to get others over and generally doing okay.
Gail just got worse as her career progressed.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
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Post by markymark on Nov 16, 2018 7:21:10 GMT -5
I'm going with Gail because it felt like she was insisting or demanding to get her way. I think she was really annoyed WWE didn't hand her the world when she came back and was dead set on being vindicated as the legend she sees herself as being and demanded to be booked in a way to reflect that. She won nearly all of her matches, went 50/50 with monster heels on top of that, everyone from wrestlers to the announcers were singing her praises all the time. Gail was making herself the focal point when that spotlight should have been on other girls. Like it was mentioned, the moment Allie should have had over Maria, went to Gail instead. Gail never even put anyone over on her way out, or even at all. Jarrett was bad, but arguably, he was the best option to go with. The only time for sure I think his ego got in the way and totally killed someone's momentum was Monty Brown. AJ was jerked around his entire career in Impact during and after Jarrett. I look at Jarrett's reign of terror similar to Triple H's in 2003. I heard rumors it was Dixies decision in order to convince Robert Irvine(Gails husband) to invest for Impact.
Its funny how no one mentions Gail often going over Velvet(at the time it was well deserved due to a good portion of the fanbase disliking Velvet), after the Havok feud is when fans started to turn on her.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 16, 2018 11:26:59 GMT -5
So how much of Gail's perceived selfishness was down to her politicing and booking herself the way Double J's was?
Gail's worst booking seems like the perfect storm of TNA being a car crash across the board, going with the most established name to keep them happy and generally not caring when it comes to the knockouts division.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,830
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 17, 2018 7:13:47 GMT -5
Jeff by a mile because his decisions had an actual impact on the success or moreso the non success of the company.The Knockouts divison in Truth was never really that important it kinda just existed as a vehicle to push past their past prime or wwe castoffs or for the writers to get off by having pretty girls act like strippers & call eachother horrible names.Meanwhile the only people that thought Jeff was a main eventer was Jeff himself and the people he paid to book him as a main eventer before tna he was a career midcarder at best in WWF and in 2000 when wcw gave him a big main event push nobody bought it and the company was dead the next so 1 year after that him thinking making himself the star of his new promotion was the height of delusion and it sacrificed the growth of some talented younger talent within his company aswell as the success of his company as a whole I’m not saying Jeff isn’t talented because he is but not everyone is a main event level star in a company that hopes to be successful on a national scope and I still believe wwf used him correctly as a IC or Tag Champ title level guy Actually, the Knockouts were often one of the highest rated segments, if not the highest, at their peak. They were legitimately a big part of the show's success at its high points. They weren't treated accordingly, though, so it didn't last. When TNA was at its most prominent the KO division was one of their Crown Jewels that made them feel like a true alternative to WWE, and Gail was a big part of that. That was also a period where JJ either wasn’t on tv for a long time after his wife’s passing, or when he was it was in a dramatically reduced role. Def not a coincidence.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 17, 2018 11:49:49 GMT -5
Voting is more closer then I thought
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 17, 2018 12:19:56 GMT -5
I wasn't watching during Gails run admittedly, but it's hard to be worse than JJ.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 17, 2018 18:22:48 GMT -5
Actually, the Knockouts were often one of the highest rated segments, if not the highest, at their peak. They were legitimately a big part of the show's success at its high points. They weren't treated accordingly, though, so it didn't last. When TNA was at its most prominent the KO division was one of their Crown Jewels that made them feel like a true alternative to WWE, and Gail was a big part of that. That was also a period where JJ either wasn’t on tv for a long time after his wife’s passing, or when he was it was in a dramatically reduced role. Def not a coincidence. I'm pretty sure Gail was in the WWE during the height of the knockouts when they were the top rated and such.
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Jonathan Michaels
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Here since TNA was still kinda okay
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 17, 2018 19:32:48 GMT -5
Gail.
Jeff was partly motivated by his trying to do what he thought was best for the company, even if he wasn’t correct.
And Jeff learned from his mistakes.
Gail only got worse.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
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Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 17, 2018 20:54:31 GMT -5
Gail never had the book.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 17, 2018 20:57:18 GMT -5
In a sense
She did in her retirement match where she went over with the tite
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 18, 2018 0:25:39 GMT -5
Voting is more closer then I thought Recency Bias.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Nov 18, 2018 9:22:34 GMT -5
Gail Kim's selfishness ruined a division. Jeff Jarrett's selfishness nearly brought down a whole company.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
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Post by SAJ Forth on Nov 18, 2018 17:22:58 GMT -5
With Gail, she's not trying to be one of the main stars of her division, she's trying to be the only main star in her division.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 18, 2018 19:48:02 GMT -5
Depends how you measure it.
Jeff's was more damaging but I think he genuinely thought what he was doing was right.
I can't imagine Gail had anyone else's benefit in mind when she was booked the way she was.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Nov 18, 2018 21:20:35 GMT -5
Hard to say. I think Jeff was more of the promoter mind of only being able to trust himself, especially in the early days. We used to joke about TNA always going back to the Default Champions but they were the only ones that seemed to be the ones most devoted to the company. Meanwhile Gail, I don't know if selfish is the right word (though I have that term in the past). How many wrestlers are offered all she was that turned it down?
I guess, gun to my head, I'd put it more on Jeff for missing out on guys like Monty Brown, Raven, and Christian to name a few.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Nov 18, 2018 21:26:10 GMT -5
Jeff was at least self-aware enough to be a heel for most of his run on top. Gail was heel for a while in her second run but her worst moments were as a face.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 4:54:57 GMT -5
I got a huge laugh the other day when one of the Knockouts posted a boomerang of all the current Knockouts and the backstage interviewer doing the “Tessa”, and who is front and center of everyone? Gail Kim.
Killed me dead.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 20, 2018 17:09:24 GMT -5
With Gail, it's not like she had the control of bookings. JJ was.
Another thing to consider is that before the WWE women wrestlers thing took off in recent years, Gail was the best at her job in North America at least. Above and beyond anybody else in her gender. That cannot be said with JJ who at his peak was barely a Top 50 guy in North America and was viewed as second rate midcard at a time when wrestling mattered when WCW and the WWF were ruling the scene. Sure he did his job well i think as a heel in TNA. But it's never good when you have a third-tier talent dominating so much. It had to take Sting for JJ beating him at BFG in 06 for him to finally go away. And then he got back and defeated Joe and Angle in 2010.
In many ways, Gail became a problem when TNA was its lowest, where they seemed to want to return to her cause they had nobody else.
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