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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 14, 2018 23:34:07 GMT -5
I don't think so. As I said in the WK thread The Elite strike me as guys that want to be more celebrities than actual wrestlers. Given that AEW would probably not have access to any ROH or NJPW talent I'm not sure where they can go. Bring in TNA guys? Would anyone possibly care? If they really leave ROH I'm not even sure how they can do an All In 2 since ROH would be under zero obligation to provide talent.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Dec 14, 2018 23:57:58 GMT -5
If Jay Lethal is trying to save anything from Cody it makes me love Jay Lethal that much more.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 15, 2018 0:03:11 GMT -5
The only thing Jay Lethal is saving me from in 2018 is insomnia.
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Post by abjordans on Dec 15, 2018 0:13:45 GMT -5
Cody is all talk and no walk in my opinion. He has been ambiguously talking about all the big shit he is going to do for 3 years.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 15, 2018 1:05:34 GMT -5
The only thing Jay Lethal is saving me from in 2018 is insomnia. He lost the Juice when he cut the braids
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 2:00:31 GMT -5
I don't think so. As I said in the WK thread The Elite strike me as guys that want to be more celebrities than actual wrestlers. I don't see it that way. I think they genuinely wanna be game hangers in wrestling, I don't think they're looking to be bigger than that. I could see them working deals, the elite guys seem to be all about companies working together, Impact works with pretty much everyone, and they're in good with ROH. I do worry that they could end up being too self congratulatory though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 2:05:09 GMT -5
The only thing Jay Lethal is saving me from in 2018 is insomnia. I have to agree with this. When he isn’t Black Machismo, I find Lethal to be a complete bore. And the Lethal Injection is my least favorite finisher.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 15, 2018 2:30:02 GMT -5
But seriously gang, f*** the new york post. I actually find them to be the least biased nyc paper with a great sports section. However, they hate wrestling, specifically Phil Mushnick, Yes THAT Phil Mushnick. f*** that guy. Otherwise a strong cast of sports writers imo. They're super exploitive with their coverage and treatment of New Yorkers. When they ran the cover story with the image of the guy about to be hit by the train, they became indefensible.
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Post by corndog on Dec 15, 2018 3:05:54 GMT -5
It's just an excuse, the Bucks and Cody won't be there because they won't be under ROH or New Japan contract. The only question is will Omega stay with New Japan or just exclusively work AEW? I think there is a chance Omega does both. It's not just an excuse, it's a good reason. They won't be on the show because they... don't work for those companies anymore. They kind of need to be booked and paid to appear on a show like that. If they don't have deals with those promotions, that's... plenty good reason why they won't be on it. "It's bad business to anger 15,000 people." Those people should be able to understand that when wrestlers leave a promotion, they won't be appearing on future shows for them. It's akin to saying everyone will be mad when CM Punk isn't at WrestleMania because "what the hell better things does he have to do that weekend?" Well, he doesn't work there anymore, so obviously he's not going to be there. It's up to ROH to put together a show to entertain those 15,000 people. Everyone should also keep in mind that AEW doesn't exist yet. Just some trademark applications. The whole thing could be a (smart) method of getting WWE to increase their offers to those involved. Should be interesting to see how this plays out during 2019. Not being with ROH/NJPW isn't the excuse I was referring to, it's the reason, what Cody says is an excuse. "ROH and NJPW sold that building out and that is massive and special and I love that they did it, but had they did it on another weekend, I'd be more likely to be featured on it. After 10 years with WWE doing 'Mania weekend and two more with ROH, I am leaving that weekend for the boys and girls of the WWE." That is Cody's quote, he says nothing about not being under contract with either promoting company as the reason. He doesn't even allude to it. He tries to make it sound like he wants to respect Wrestlemania weekend as the WWE's and even makes a slight dig at ROH/NJPW not doing something that special because it rides on Wrestlemania's coattails(even though there is truth to it, still somewhat disrespectful). Basically, he's putting himself over. On a side note, after reading the end of your post, interesting point. Although, there does seem to be quite a bit of evidence of Cody/the Bucks working on this new promotion. Cody in the Jaguars owner suite at a game, the Bucks showing pictures of them working on commentary with Kazarian. Also considering the knocks made on WWE in "Being the Elite", I don't think they are going there, but you never know and you could be on to something with all of this just being something to drive up their price. If they do go to WWE, the Elite are going to be the highest paid midcarders in the history of the company. Because I honestly believe Vince is only signing them to keep them from starting a new company/take them away from someone else. If he has to completely overpay for them, I think he takes it personally and books them poorly on purpose, which will be interesting because WWE already books most of their shows pretty poorly unintentionally.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 8:09:17 GMT -5
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Post by King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler on Dec 15, 2018 8:43:36 GMT -5
Eh I was more annoyed with Cody's whole "the rub goes both ways" in relation to working with Bullet Club than I am with this.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 15, 2018 11:08:50 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I mean where would Cody be without the Bullet Club? Before that he was dicking around on TNA going nowhere for a few months, before he wildly lucked into a great situation with New Japan and ROH. With NJPW trying to break into the American market Cody was an ideal familiar face to audiences, so they put him in the Bullet Club. Then he was able to capitalize on the momentum of the Omega/Okada rivalry and mostly ride Omega's coattails to some degree. Has Cody's character work during this time been good? Yes, it has. Is he capable of actually making his own momentum without piggy backing off of other established concepts? I dunno.
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Post by corndog on Dec 15, 2018 13:05:05 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I mean where would Cody be without the Bullet Club? Before that he was dicking around on TNA going nowhere for a few months, before he wildly lucked into a great situation with New Japan and ROH. With NJPW trying to break into the American market Cody was an ideal familiar face to audiences, so they put him in the Bullet Club. Then he was able to capitalize on the momentum of the Omega/Okada rivalry and mostly ride Omega's coattails to some degree. Has Cody's character work during this time been good? Yes, it has. Is he capable of actually making his own momentum without piggy backing off of other established concepts? I dunno. He would have faded out without Bullet Club and I wouldn't be surprised if he was back in the WWE by now. Granted, if he didn't join Bullet Club, "All In" probably wouldn't have happened, as it started as a bet between Cody and Meltzer. Which also means, AEW most likely wouldn't be happening. So Cody joining Bullet Club definitely had an impact, not only on himself, but maybe even the entire wrestling business. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, even though everything with the Elite is kind of annoying right now.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 15, 2018 13:19:05 GMT -5
Sinclair are big, RoH are not. They're not given a budget comparable to WCW back in the day, they're run on a relative shoestring as cheap network owned programming and can't compete with the salaries offered by the WWE's developmental system so would suffer should the Bucks/Cody et al set up their own super indy.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 15, 2018 13:33:40 GMT -5
I don't think so. As I said in the WK thread The Elite strike me as guys that want to be more celebrities than actual wrestlers. Given that AEW would probably not have access to any ROH or NJPW talent I'm not sure where they can go. Bring in TNA guys? Would anyone possibly care? If they really leave ROH I'm not even sure how they can do an All In 2 since ROH would be under zero obligation to provide talent. Assuming they manage to lock down zero working agreements with anyone--with the ROH/RevPro/New Japan/CMLL connection, with TNA, with AAA, with MLW, with anyone signing anyone to anything--there's still so many free free agents and so many amazing talents out there who given an opportunity could do something great. The Elite as the biggest indie names going would be strong enough draws to get initial eyes on the show and from there the sheer wealth of potential talent at their disposal could easily shine given the chance.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Dec 15, 2018 13:49:56 GMT -5
Cody is all talk and no walk in my opinion. He has been ambiguously talking about all the big shit he is going to do for 3 years. What has he talked about he has not delivered on?
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Post by abjordans on Dec 15, 2018 14:09:13 GMT -5
Cody is all talk and no walk in my opinion. He has been ambiguously talking about all the big shit he is going to do for 3 years. What has he talked about he has not delivered on? Having good matches for one. That was kind of a joke but also kind of true. What good work has he done? His popularity stems from being part of The Elite and mostly from non-kayfabe stuff, and all the talk of where The Elite will go, but has Cody Rhodes really been that entertaining since leaving WWE? He is almost like a behind the scenes/internet wrestling persona to me now. Always wanting to talk about “40% gross growth this, and international presence that” but dude I don’t care. On screen he is part of an ensemble cast of a kind of funny YouTube show and an mid carder/fringe main eventer for NJPW and ROH. Really what has he done other that glom onto the Bucks and Omega? He always acts like he is this game changing wrestling mega star, seems to always want to blow himself and clout chase.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Dec 15, 2018 14:18:58 GMT -5
What has he talked about he has not delivered on? Having good matches for one. That was kind of a joke but also kind of true. What good work has he done? His popularity stems from being part of The Elite and mostly from non-kayfabe stuff, and all the talk of where The Elite will go, but has Cody Rhodes really been that entertaining since leaving WWE? He is almost like a behind the scenes/internet wrestling persona to me now. Always wanting to talk about “40% gross growth this, and international presence that” but dude I don’t care. On screen he is part of an ensemble cast of a kind of funny YouTube show and an mid carder/fringe main eventer for NJPW and ROH. Really what has he done other that glom onto the Bucks and Omega? He always acts like he is this game changing wrestling mega star, seems to always want to blow himself and clout chase. I think you are considerably underselling the impact he has had on both ROH and New Japan, and I think All In by itself would be plenty for most to be justifiably cocky.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 15, 2018 14:31:20 GMT -5
Having good matches for one. That was kind of a joke but also kind of true. What good work has he done? His popularity stems from being part of The Elite and mostly from non-kayfabe stuff, and all the talk of where The Elite will go, but has Cody Rhodes really been that entertaining since leaving WWE? He is almost like a behind the scenes/internet wrestling persona to me now. Always wanting to talk about “40% gross growth this, and international presence that” but dude I don’t care. On screen he is part of an ensemble cast of a kind of funny YouTube show and an mid carder/fringe main eventer for NJPW and ROH. Really what has he done other that glom onto the Bucks and Omega? He always acts like he is this game changing wrestling mega star, seems to always want to blow himself and clout chase. I think you are considerably underselling the impact he has had on both ROH and New Japan, and I think All In by itself would be plenty for most to be justifiably cocky. I can't imagine a world where All In happened and was the legitimate success it was, but how Cody hasn't delivered on anything. Underselling the accomplishment of that show and everything it managed to achieve, down to how all those "OH IT WAS ALL SCALPERS THAT PLACE WILL BE EMPTY" comments to try and underplay its success that turned out to be nothing because the place was packed and hot and loved it, is so weird to me. At the absolute barest minimum, Cody Rhodes has contributed "nothing of substance" to any company he's worked for but helped bring The Elite brand higher and pushed them to take a big and successful risk that's now making them starting a promotion seem like a possibility. Did crazy amounts of promotion and legwork to pull off something that was a genuine hit. Even if you are as uncharitable as possible in everything else he's done that alone is definitely worth the world in putting a chip on the man's shoulder; he left WWE feeling like he wasn't getting anywhere and nobody saw anything in him, and has gone on to find undeniable success.
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Post by abjordans on Dec 15, 2018 14:33:17 GMT -5
Having good matches for one. That was kind of a joke but also kind of true. What good work has he done? His popularity stems from being part of The Elite and mostly from non-kayfabe stuff, and all the talk of where The Elite will go, but has Cody Rhodes really been that entertaining since leaving WWE? He is almost like a behind the scenes/internet wrestling persona to me now. Always wanting to talk about “40% gross growth this, and international presence that” but dude I don’t care. On screen he is part of an ensemble cast of a kind of funny YouTube show and an mid carder/fringe main eventer for NJPW and ROH. Really what has he done other that glom onto the Bucks and Omega? He always acts like he is this game changing wrestling mega star, seems to always want to blow himself and clout chase. I think you are considerably underselling the impact he has had on both ROH and New Japan, and I think All In by itself would be plenty for most to be justifiably cocky. Promoting All In was definitely huge, props in that. That’s why I said he is more of a backstage wrestling guy to me now. But, the hipster indy wrestling boom (that isn’t a diss, I like that stuff too, that is just what I call it) was happening with or without Cody Rhodes and he just jumped on the back of the most popular guys.
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