Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 12:13:14 GMT -5
"I could take a shit in the ring and rub it all over my face; it doesn't mean I expect people to want to see that."
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Post by RedSmile on Dec 16, 2018 12:30:43 GMT -5
I find Russo's booking to be more insulting than interesting.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 16, 2018 12:44:20 GMT -5
Was it, though? If you dislike wnhat he's put on screen to the point you change the channel and never want to look back, something we saw with WCW and TNA, it doesn't really count as interesting, more offputting.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 16, 2018 13:06:59 GMT -5
...I would have loved a striptease from Daffney... I won't lie, so would I. The problem was that Daffney was told to play it like she was being forced to and really really didn't want to, or she insisted on playing it that way. So instead of being excited that we're gonna see a hot girl naked, you just feel awkward and uncomfortable that you're being complicit in an act that could be considered a form of sexual assault.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,849
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Post by chazraps on Dec 16, 2018 13:26:23 GMT -5
Vince Russo is a dumb out of touch racist.
Also a sexist homophobe.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 16, 2018 14:37:13 GMT -5
I watched Vince Russo's WCW, and let me tell you, I disagree with the premise that he was always interesting.
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Post by Mama Rhodes Looking @ U Now on Dec 16, 2018 14:44:54 GMT -5
As someone that absolutely loved the f*** out of TNA back in 06 and saw the Russo transition happen in realtime, nonononononononononononononono.
Listen, when I think of interesting, the last thing that ever comes to mind is reverse battle royal tournaments that need 3 or 4 slides on screen just to *explain the rules* even vaguely.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,260
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Dec 16, 2018 15:04:40 GMT -5
Vince Russo is a dumb out of touch racist. Also a sexist homophobe. So is Vince McMahon. Hell so was Bill Watts and many other promoters.
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Post by Captain Patren Fenderbaum-X on Dec 16, 2018 15:13:07 GMT -5
Interesting in the way that I come across a car wreck and wonder how the hell a guy in the trunk of the car got flung through the front of it only to then end up under the car....when the car had no driver.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Dec 16, 2018 15:36:21 GMT -5
Vince Russo is a dumb out of touch racist. Also a sexist homophobe. So is Vince McMahon. Hell so was Bill Watts and many other promoters. Yeah, I know that little gag is supposed to be the Discussion Ender/All That Needs to Be Said deal, but it's lame and tired at this point. Yeah, Russo is all of those things....so are quite a few people who have had/have positions of power in the wrestling industry. That whole bit needs to be retired, IMO. As for Russo....I don't know. He can come up with some good stuff, but he can also come up with some pretty awful stuff. I would agree with the idea that he works best with an editor; someone who knows what will/won't work enough to be able to say, "No, we're not doing that," or be able to tweak a borderline idea enough to make it work. He had that in WWE, which is why it worked.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 16, 2018 16:07:39 GMT -5
So is Vince McMahon. Hell so was Bill Watts and many other promoters. Yeah, I know that little gag is supposed to be the Discussion Ender/All That Needs to Be Said deal, but it's lame and tired at this point. Yeah, Russo is all of those things....so are quite a few people who have had/have positions of power in the wrestling industry. That whole bit needs to be retired, IMO. As for Russo....I don't know. He can come up with some good stuff, but he can also come up with some pretty awful stuff. I would agree with the idea that he works best with an editor; someone who knows what will/won't work enough to be able to say, "No, we're not doing that," or be able to tweak a borderline idea enough to make it work. He had that in WWE, which is why it worked. Ah, "he needs an editor", that old chestnut. Here's the thing, every time one of his runs in WCW or TNA ended, the first thing he said was "they didn't give me the complete control I needed, they didn't let me do what I really wanted to do". Does this sound like a man that's willing to work with an editor? I don't know what was going on in his WWF run that it worked so well, but I'm not buying that an editor is the answer to his problems.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 16, 2018 16:13:11 GMT -5
So is Vince McMahon. Hell so was Bill Watts and many other promoters. Yeah, I know that little gag is supposed to be the Discussion Ender/All That Needs to Be Said deal, but it's lame and tired at this point. Yeah, Russo is all of those things....so are quite a few people who have had/have positions of power in the wrestling industry. That whole bit needs to be retired, IMO. As for Russo....I don't know. He can come up with some good stuff, but he can also come up with some pretty awful stuff. I would agree with the idea that he works best with an editor; someone who knows what will/won't work enough to be able to say, "No, we're not doing that," or be able to tweak a borderline idea enough to make it work. He had that in WWE, which is why it worked. Unlike other people in wrestling, Russo spews his bigotry in a regular basis, he equates being a wrestling fan to being gay and he also makes creepy comments about women. While other people in wrestling actually shut the f*** up about their hatred, Russo wears it proudly, that’s why it’s ok to take him up to task. Regarding the editor part you’re correct. Raven explained it the best. Russo is a writer not a booker. Russo can help guys with their promos but he can’t come up with angles that last six months and have an ending. Russo writes a kidnapping angle but he doesn’t know how to finish it.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 16, 2018 16:14:59 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that little gag is supposed to be the Discussion Ender/All That Needs to Be Said deal, but it's lame and tired at this point. Yeah, Russo is all of those things....so are quite a few people who have had/have positions of power in the wrestling industry. That whole bit needs to be retired, IMO. As for Russo....I don't know. He can come up with some good stuff, but he can also come up with some pretty awful stuff. I would agree with the idea that he works best with an editor; someone who knows what will/won't work enough to be able to say, "No, we're not doing that," or be able to tweak a borderline idea enough to make it work. He had that in WWE, which is why it worked. Ah, "he needs an editor", that old chestnut. Here's the thing, every time one of his runs in WCW or TNA ended, the first thing he said was "they didn't give me the complete control I needed, they didn't let me do what I really wanted to do". Does this sound like a man that's willing to work with an editor? I don't know what was doing on in his WWF run that it worked so well, but I'm not buying that an editor is the answer to his problems. It worked so well because McMahon actually bothered to hear every stupid idea and help mold it into something that’s not a car crash. McMahon had the patience to hear him ramble and ramble.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Dec 16, 2018 16:23:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that little gag is supposed to be the Discussion Ender/All That Needs to Be Said deal, but it's lame and tired at this point. Yeah, Russo is all of those things....so are quite a few people who have had/have positions of power in the wrestling industry. That whole bit needs to be retired, IMO. As for Russo....I don't know. He can come up with some good stuff, but he can also come up with some pretty awful stuff. I would agree with the idea that he works best with an editor; someone who knows what will/won't work enough to be able to say, "No, we're not doing that," or be able to tweak a borderline idea enough to make it work. He had that in WWE, which is why it worked. Ah, he needs an editor, that old chestnut. Here's the thing, every time one of his runs in WCW or TNA ended, the first thing he said was "they didn't give me the complete control I needed, they didn't let me do what I really wanted to do". Does this sound like a man that's willing to work with an editor? I don't know what was doing on in his WWF run that it worked so well, but I'm not buying that an editor is the answer to his problems. Well, he denies the fact that Vince McMahon was an editor for him, but that's exactly what he was. Plus, there was JR, Prichard, and others that could help ixnay a particular idea, or at the very least turn it into something better for the sake of the product. That's exactly what an editor does. Granted, I don't think Russo liked that, which is one of the reasons he went to WCW. The difference there was that there was no person that could or would (that's an important point too, as unlike WWE, the people that could have performed the roles JR, Prichard, and others did in WWE were too busy trying to protect their spots and sabotaging any threat to those spots to do what needed to be done to make the product better) do that, which is why we got what we got. In TNA, I think Jarrett, Cornette, and others tried to do their best to reign Russo in, but Dixie Carter was no Vince McMahon. Plus, like a lot of the people in charge of WCW in their dying days, Dixie had no clue what worked or didn't, so, she wasn't going to be that editor Russo needed to have. And then it got worse when Hogan and Bischoff came in, as they had their own ideas about things, which made the Hogan era such a mess. Plus, like in WCW, they were worried more about being in charge than actually helping to make the product as good as it could be.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Dec 16, 2018 16:30:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that little gag is supposed to be the Discussion Ender/All That Needs to Be Said deal, but it's lame and tired at this point. Yeah, Russo is all of those things....so are quite a few people who have had/have positions of power in the wrestling industry. That whole bit needs to be retired, IMO. As for Russo....I don't know. He can come up with some good stuff, but he can also come up with some pretty awful stuff. I would agree with the idea that he works best with an editor; someone who knows what will/won't work enough to be able to say, "No, we're not doing that," or be able to tweak a borderline idea enough to make it work. He had that in WWE, which is why it worked. Unlike other people in wrestling, Russo spews his bigotry in a regular basis, he equates being a wrestling fan to being gay and he also makes creepy comments about women. While other people in wrestling actually shut the f*** up about their hatred, Russo wears it proudly, that’s why it’s ok to take him up to task. Regarding the editor part you’re correct. Raven explained it the best. Russo is a writer not a booker. Russo can help guys with their promos but he can’t come up with angles that last six months and have an ending. Russo writes a kidnapping angle but he doesn’t know how to finish it. Oh, I'm not denying the fact that Russo is any of those things. It just gets annoying when any actual intelligent discussion about the guy gets derailed by that lame crap, especially given the source.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 16, 2018 16:33:56 GMT -5
Unlike other people in wrestling, Russo spews his bigotry in a regular basis, he equates being a wrestling fan to being gay and he also makes creepy comments about women. While other people in wrestling actually shut the f*** up about their hatred, Russo wears it proudly, that’s why it’s ok to take him up to task. Regarding the editor part you’re correct. Raven explained it the best. Russo is a writer not a booker. Russo can help guys with their promos but he can’t come up with angles that last six months and have an ending. Russo writes a kidnapping angle but he doesn’t know how to finish it. Oh, I'm not denying the fact that Russo is any of those things. It just gets annoying when any actual intelligent discussion about the guy gets derailed by that lame crap, especially given the source. Because Russo spews that shit almost weekly, it’s very hard to have normal discussions about the guy when he always shows his true colors. I wish the guy had a redeemable quality but then he says or tweets something stupid.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 16, 2018 16:39:29 GMT -5
Ah, he needs an editor, that old chestnut. Here's the thing, every time one of his runs in WCW or TNA ended, the first thing he said was "they didn't give me the complete control I needed, they didn't let me do what I really wanted to do". Does this sound like a man that's willing to work with an editor? I don't know what was doing on in his WWF run that it worked so well, but I'm not buying that an editor is the answer to his problems. Well, he denies the fact that Vince McMahon was an editor for him, but that's exactly what he was. Plus, there was JR, Prichard, and others that could help ixnay a particular idea, or at the very least turn it into something better for the sake of the product. That's exactly what an editor does. Granted, I don't think Russo liked that, which is one of the reasons he went to WCW. The difference there was that there was no person that could or would (that's an important point too, as unlike WWE, the people that could have performed the roles JR, Prichard, and others did in WWE were too busy trying to protect their spots and sabotaging any threat to those spots to do what needed to be done to make the product better) do that, which is why we got what we got. In TNA, I think Jarrett, Cornette, and others tried to do their best to reign Russo in, but Dixie Carter was no Vince McMahon. Plus, like a lot of the people in charge of WCW in their dying days, Dixie had no clue what worked or didn't, so, she wasn't going to be that editor Russo needed to have. And then it got worse when Hogan and Bischoff came in, as they had their own ideas about things, which made the Hogan era such a mess. Plus, like in WCW, they were worried more about being in charge than actually helping to make the product as good as it could be. McMahon was able to rein him in because he didn’t tolerated bullshit. If Russo threw a temper tantrum then he would’ve been fired. Now in wcw, he pretty much did everything he wanted because the place was a mess and there was no clear boss, he just went to Bill Busch and overruled Sullivan and Taylor. In tna he then became the head of creative by constantly kissing up to Dixie and getting Jarrett and his allies fired. That’s why Jeff never hired Russo for GFW.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Dec 16, 2018 16:49:56 GMT -5
Oh, I'm not denying the fact that Russo is any of those things. It just gets annoying when any actual intelligent discussion about the guy gets derailed by that lame crap, especially given the source. Because Russo spews that shit almost weekly, it’s very hard to have normal discussions about the guy when he always shows his true colors. I wish the guy had a redeemable quality but then he says or tweets something stupid. Oh, once again, I'm not going to deny the fact that Russo's ideas about things aren't exactly fitting with how things are in 2018. That's kind of the sad fact that in many ways, he's become permanently stuck in 1997 and that Jerry Springer/Howard Stern menrality, which is why he's found himself irrelevant in today's wrestling business. At the same time, though, I try not to let my disagreements with his opinions on things completely control my opinions on him as a writer. After all, if you start to look at people who were/are in positions of power in the wrestling business, you're not going to find very many people who are/would have been bastions of progressive values. Hell, there are some that make Russo look like Bernie Sanders.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,849
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Post by chazraps on Dec 16, 2018 16:53:00 GMT -5
Vince Russo is a dumb out of touch racist. Also a sexist homophobe. So is Vince McMahon. Hell so was Bill Watts and many other promoters. This thread is about Vince Russo.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 16, 2018 16:54:29 GMT -5
Because Russo spews that shit almost weekly, it’s very hard to have normal discussions about the guy when he always shows his true colors. I wish the guy had a redeemable quality but then he says or tweets something stupid. Oh, once again, I'm not going to deny the fact that Russo's ideas about things aren't exactly fitting with how things are in 2018. That's kind of the sad fact that in many ways, he's become permanently stuck in 1997 and that Jerry Springer/Howard Stern menrality, which is why he's found himself irrelevant in today's wrestling business. At the same time, though, I try not to let my disagreements with his opinions on things completely control my opinions on him as a writer. After all, if you start to look at people who were/are in positions of power in the wrestling business, you're not going to find very many people who are/would have been bastions of progressive values. Hell, there are some that make Russo look like Bernie Sanders. The ironic thing is that both Springer and Stern evolved and upgraded, Russo should learn from them and then he probably could be employed by a big company again. Russo actually booked a lingerie match in tna in 2014 hahaha.
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