Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 0:03:34 GMT -5
I'm gonna shoot from the hip. It was the perfect example of guys being held back due to other matches which is common due to how WWE sets up matches. The match wasn't bad, it just was underwhelming to what it needed to be and it was shot in the leg way before they even stepped in the ring and even after they did that they kept shooting them. I'm not getting into the build because yeah, that's Vince. But this match? It was held back. I forgot who said it on here but someone asked why the match wasn't a TLC match and someone said "makes sense to give the stipulations to other matches that need it." The problem is that due to the Bryan/Styles ending here they had to go out (look at all the other Styles feuds where he always ends up having his best match at the end of the feud) and the fact the women's TLC was coming up. Given where this match was placed, they needed something to fill that spot and they needed something that wouldn't outshine the matches around it. Given this match is still going to happen at least once more? It was this one. The problem though is that, well, they set it up shittly. You mean they can't use gimmicks? That's one knock against them. You mean they can't go all out? That's 2 knocks against them. You mean that they're going to bring up story elements that aren't hitting due to how distasteful the Reigns stuff is? That's 3 knocks against them. YOU MEAN THAT THE MATCH IS GOING 23 f***ING MINUTES LONG WITHOUT ALL OF THAT SHIT? That's 4 knocks against them. It was the worst of the worst bruh. Shit was sad. So you look at all of that? Then yeah this match is going to be held back some. I know a lot of people will blame it on how the feud's been because they don't like it but that doesn't have a thing to do with it when the crowd's booing Ambrose and cheering Rollins before it starts. The match failed in how it was set up. It's another example of the WWE holding back dudes due to other stuff rather than letting everyone go all out and then the cream rises to the top. It's stupid and it's been stupid for a while. Sad it happened to them. Weird thing is that it always happens in an Ambrose match. Remember that Ambrose/Jericho Asylum match where they had 10 minutes added to it because they needed to fill up time due to a nixed segment? That hurt the match. Remember when Ambrose/Harper had that Extreme Rules match and they went everywhere and the crowd was chanting for tables and Ambrose for some reason didn't use a table? Then next thing you know Reigns/Big Show use numerous times later on in the night which made the crowd happy? That hurt the Ambrose match. It's weird. The company doesn't believe the "all guys need to go all out to make each match amazing" mindset. They try to make sure matches don't overhype and overlap others because some others needs that match and rather than having guys step up to the plate, they lower the bar. Stupid company makes stupid decisions. I don't think it's a question of letting them go "all out." I think there has to be some onus on the performers in this instance. This match was promoted by the announcers and the video package as being an opportunity for Seth to get violent retribution against Ambrose. I know Vince McMahon is a commandeering guy, but I really struggle to believe that for this particular match, that was promoted as a fight, that the two of them were specifically told not to get too violent. It was the second billing to the main event, there's no reason to think they were being held back so as not to steal anyone's thunder because pretty much everyone wrestled already. There was a point halfway or later in the match where Dean and Seth started hockey fighting and it finally started looking like a fight, and Graves remarks "I'm surprised it took them this long," it seemed like even he was waiting for them to do something. The match wasn't bad in a vacuum, and it was a steep climb in the first place for them to overcome the shitty build to have a great match, but tonally their performance didn't suit the story. To me it didn't really matter if they went all out or not, this match didn't need to be a workrate heavy match, but it doesn't have to be to demonstrate that they wanna fight each other. They fought like it was just a wrestling match for a title, not like two guys with a score to settle. Also, I don't think Seth is particularly good at being in personal rivalries like this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 0:15:29 GMT -5
I'm gonna shoot from the hip. It was the perfect example of guys being held back due to other matches which is common due to how WWE sets up matches. The match wasn't bad, it just was underwhelming to what it needed to be and it was shot in the leg way before they even stepped in the ring and even after they did that they kept shooting them. I'm not getting into the build because yeah, that's Vince. But this match? It was held back. I forgot who said it on here but someone asked why the match wasn't a TLC match and someone said "makes sense to give the stipulations to other matches that need it." The problem is that due to the Bryan/Styles ending here they had to go out (look at all the other Styles feuds where he always ends up having his best match at the end of the feud) and the fact the women's TLC was coming up. Given where this match was placed, they needed something to fill that spot and they needed something that wouldn't outshine the matches around it. Given this match is still going to happen at least once more? It was this one. The problem though is that, well, they set it up shittly. You mean they can't use gimmicks? That's one knock against them. You mean they can't go all out? That's 2 knocks against them. You mean that they're going to bring up story elements that aren't hitting due to how distasteful the Reigns stuff is? That's 3 knocks against them. YOU MEAN THAT THE MATCH IS GOING 23 f***ING MINUTES LONG WITHOUT ALL OF THAT SHIT? That's 4 knocks against them. It was the worst of the worst bruh. Shit was sad. So you look at all of that? Then yeah this match is going to be held back some. I know a lot of people will blame it on how the feud's been because they don't like it but that doesn't have a thing to do with it when the crowd's booing Ambrose and cheering Rollins before it starts. The match failed in how it was set up. It's another example of the WWE holding back dudes due to other stuff rather than letting everyone go all out and then the cream rises to the top. It's stupid and it's been stupid for a while. Sad it happened to them. Weird thing is that it always happens in an Ambrose match. Remember that Ambrose/Jericho Asylum match where they had 10 minutes added to it because they needed to fill up time due to a nixed segment? That hurt the match. Remember when Ambrose/Harper had that Extreme Rules match and they went everywhere and the crowd was chanting for tables and Ambrose for some reason didn't use a table? Then next thing you know Reigns/Big Show use numerous times later on in the night which made the crowd happy? That hurt the Ambrose match. It's weird. The company doesn't believe the "all guys need to go all out to make each match amazing" mindset. They try to make sure matches don't overhype and overlap others because some others needs that match and rather than having guys step up to the plate, they lower the bar. Stupid company makes stupid decisions. I don't think it's a question of letting them go "all out." I think there has to be some onus on the performers in this instance. This match was promoted by the announcers and the video package as being an opportunity for Seth to get violent retribution against Ambrose. I know Vince McMahon is a commandeering guy, but I really struggle to believe that for this particular match, that was promoted as a fight, that the two of them were specifically told not to get too violent. It was the second billing to the main event, there's no reason to think they were being held back so as not to steal anyone's thunder because pretty much everyone wrestled already. There was a point halfway or later in the match where Dean and Seth started hockey fighting and it finally started looking like a fight, and Graves remarks "I'm surprised it took them this long," it seemed like even he was waiting for them to do something. The match wasn't bad in a vacuum, and it was a steep climb in the first place for them to overcome the shitty build to have a great match, but tonally their performance didn't suit the story. To me it didn't really matter if they went all out or not, this match didn't need to be a workrate heavy match, but it doesn't have to be to demonstrate that they wanna fight each other. They fought like it was just a wrestling match for a title, not like two guys with a score to settle. Also, I don't think Seth is particularly good at being in personal rivalries like this. I'm saying that they had boundaries as to what to do and given that they had to work within those boundaries. The style of match this was isn't what I consider being an all out match for them. The style of match was just a regular Raw Rollins match in how it was designed. They started slow and turned up at the end. In the middle it had the regular "Rollins hurts his knee" spot and he was selling it for most of the match. It was just regular compared to them really going all out like a regular fight. It wasn't designed to be a main event, feud ender, it was just designed to be "there" to fill time but the problem is that if you give them 23 minutes and it's not the main event, doesn't have any gimmicks and given what they had to portray in the match there's just only so much they could do. If this match happened on Raw and it was the only long match it probably would have killed but given the confines? Nah, it just wasn't great. I wouldn't take Corey's comment there seriously since it takes a shot at Seth in this instance when he's supposed to be the face but either way it just didn't work out. It's not really story related because the crowd there mostly didn't care about the story, they just wanted to see a dope match. Had they had a great match and didn't know the story they would have been fine.
Either way yeah the story didn't match up to the match but it wasn't bad due to that. It under performed given there's just some stuff they couldn't do. If those house show reports about them putting on great matches this past month are any indication, I'm pretty sure this match wasn't those.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 232,669
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 17, 2018 0:38:06 GMT -5
This is probably the saddest I've ever been at WWE Booking over a feud. Rollins vs Ambrose could have been the best blood feud in DECADES and this is what they did with it
Sincerely people need to be fired for this. Even if it's Vince's Fault ultimately.
|
|
|
Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 17, 2018 1:24:23 GMT -5
That match was BOOTY.
Crowd was not f***ing feeling it. DB and Aj told a great slow burn story but this shit was plodding.
Man between this and Deans heel turn...Oof. This entire shit.
|
|
|
Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Dec 17, 2018 1:24:57 GMT -5
Ambrose is simply not talented enough to pull off a match like what they were going for.
There's no excuse. They got all the time in the damn world and stunk up the joint. They did all the dumb indy storytelling "I'm on my knees and slowly looking up. Yelling stuff" spots. It sucked because the two wrestlers in the ring tonight sucked.
|
|
MAGGLE
Dennis Stamp
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 4,511
|
Post by MAGGLE on Dec 17, 2018 1:28:59 GMT -5
They ruined his entire turn and took all the heat with this slow build up on Raw. Tonight Dean also showed he isn´t all that in the ring either. So if the build up sucks...Dean will suck as well.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 17, 2018 1:32:46 GMT -5
Finish could've been Seth getting himself DQed after Ambrose pushes him over the line or something, then you get the big gimmick match for the Rumble. They did that with AJ a lot and it got them in trouble
|
|
|
Post by romanstylesiii on Dec 17, 2018 1:47:07 GMT -5
Terrible feud is not really a good reason to why that match was so bad.
It is not like AJ/Bryan was an amazing build, but the fans were still far more invested
|
|
Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
Posts: 5,059
|
Post by Derk! on Dec 17, 2018 1:52:45 GMT -5
I thought it was a decent match. But shave off a few minutes and it would have been a lot better.
|
|
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 17, 2018 1:53:36 GMT -5
Zero reason for why this wasn't a gimmick match.
|
|
kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,238
|
Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 17, 2018 1:56:35 GMT -5
This wasn't a Seth Rollins match.
This was a Tyler Black match. People who remember how bad some of his matches got in ROH will know what I'm talking about.
And I thought he grew out of that.
|
|
|
Post by Gremlin on Dec 17, 2018 2:21:08 GMT -5
That matc was so disastrous, Erik Larson is going to write a book about it. I didn't watch, but I can't no sell the joke.
|
|
|
Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 17, 2018 2:24:40 GMT -5
What also doesn’t help is the direction of the characters. We thought we were getting enraged, vindictive chaotic Dean trying to kill his conflicted, torn, babyface former brother.
Instead we’re getting Seth yelling and losing his shit on a..germaphobic, moral compass Dean being cerebral. Like..alright.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 2:29:12 GMT -5
I've seen Dean have plenty of very good to great matches with people who aren't even as good as Seth before (his matches with Miz come to mind), so I can't agree that it's a case of him not being talented enough. He's one of my favorite guys to watch in the ring. f*** this "We need to save the cool stuff" mindset they seem to have, though.
|
|
|
Post by arrogantmodel on Dec 17, 2018 6:42:31 GMT -5
In a perfect world, we would have this weak match lead into something amazing, like Jericho and Benoit's ladder match or Triple H and Cactus Jack's street fight at the Rumble.
Those really sold those ppvs for me. Especially the street fight, damn, it felt like those two really wanted to murder each other. And if he's up for it, even have Roman pop up to crush Ambrose with a chair the way Rock did.
Seth and Dean fight on the ramp/aisle way, Roman pops out, smashes Dean with a chair, gets a monster pop, and just cooley walks to the back.
|
|
|
Post by blissified on Dec 17, 2018 6:58:06 GMT -5
Much like Miz/Daniel at Summerslam, I just don’t see how this was boring or awful. Slow, sure, but it was fine to me. Every match could of been 5 stars and you'd still have people not liking something.
|
|
|
Post by chronocross on Dec 17, 2018 9:17:47 GMT -5
I think they should have Rollins attack Ambrose as he's walking down the aisle. I was thinking back to the Austin/Angle feud in 2001 at Summerslam where you could tell Angle wanted to kill Austin as he was waiting for him in the aisleway, no bigtime introductions, just straight fighting from bell to bell.
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 17, 2018 9:24:01 GMT -5
It was a sleepy, unspectacular match. The hyperbole of it being terrible is hilarious. I mean, yeah, when you're trying to present the first showdown between your top face and one of your top heels in the middle of a personal bloodfeud and it results in them working a slow-motion match while the crowd chants, "This is boring!" I don't know how that isn't considered terrible. Something doesn't need to be Jackie Gayda bad to be bad. Exactly. They took a really hot crowd and made them chant "this is boring". That's a bad match. Also, I shouldn't say "they" because Rollins always delivers. Ambrose is just failing in this new role. It's like he's determined to be boring as shit in order to be booed. He's like the worst aspects of Legacy Orton and SRS Jericho rolled into one.
|
|
Moppy
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,178
Member is Online
|
Post by Moppy on Dec 17, 2018 9:28:16 GMT -5
It was fine, but, like, it was too much of a straight wrestling match. Isn't this supposed to be a blood feud?
I can't rag on it too much because I was still entertained. But a really weird decision to book the match for this particular show and to relegate it to semi-main with no weapons/violence.
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler on Dec 17, 2018 9:36:44 GMT -5
The crowd summed it up best, "This is boring".
The only match all night to get that chant. one that included one of the most revered babyfaces, and despised heels.
If Dean's god awful heel schtick didn't kill the feud, this match certainly did. I have no desire to see it continue or Ambrose as champion. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.
|
|