Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 232,653
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 18, 2018 23:46:46 GMT -5
Emergency Bump that won't be sustained but they'll be deluded enough to think it's working. Neat.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 19, 2018 0:43:53 GMT -5
We all make jokes, and have for years, about the third hour being death. Problem is, as has been shown in this thread, the numbers say that nearl half of their audience has turned out and not come back, to the point that the third hour has a serous risk of being under 2,000,000 on a regular basis. Yes, it's not "cool" right now, it's not a boom period, fine, and I'm rusty as shit on my viewers to neilson point scale, but if I remember 1.0 is around 1,000,000 viewers. So, looking at the date to date comparision, the 1995 raw from the same date did a 2.3. So it's above that, but barely, and if they're sitting at the same numbers, roughly, that they were when the company had a legitimate chance of going tits up, then there's no way for me to see it as anything close to positive.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Dec 19, 2018 1:16:37 GMT -5
Same week in each year: 2018: 2,547,000 2017: 2,786,000 2016: 2,944,000 2015: 3,378,000 2014: 3,631,000 2013: 4,112,000 A bump over last week is nothing to get excited about. Wow, so Punks final season with WWE ratings were strong man. What happened?
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 19, 2018 7:02:31 GMT -5
We all make jokes, and have for years, about the third hour being death. Problem is, as has been shown in this thread, the numbers say that nearl half of their audience has turned out and not come back, to the point that the third hour has a serous risk of being under 2,000,000 on a regular basis. Yes, it's not "cool" right now, it's not a boom period, fine, and I'm rusty as shit on my viewers to neilson point scale, but if I remember 1.0 is around 1,000,000 viewers. So, looking at the date to date comparision, the 1995 raw from the same date did a 2.3. So it's above that, but barely, and if they're sitting at the same numbers, roughly, that they were when the company had a legitimate chance of going tits up, then there's no way for me to see it as anything close to positive. Yeah, it's certainly a different era, as 1995-1996 WWF could never have hoped to pull in the sponsors or network deals that modern WWE has been able to get due to providing live weekly programming in an era where cable networks are doing everything possible to keep subscribers from cord cutting, but at a certain point the numbers are the numbers and a lack of interest is a lack of interest. They can't afford to get to the end of these new deals with NBC and Fox and not be pulling in at least steady numbers in the 3 million-3.5 million range, not when they're publicly traded and will have investors to answer to if the next TV deal is significantly lower than this one. Five years isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. It's why they were smart to launch the WWE network when they did, to get that revenue stream opened up now and have the infrastructure ready to grow it as needed in the future, but what if five years from now Fox doesn't want to renew Smackdown and they have to start considering running a weekly main roster show online? Does that mean the end of the $9.99 price point, which has been key to its business model? They're not in danger of dying or anything as a company any time soon, but these are serious concerns they need to be thinking about going forward.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 19, 2018 8:10:50 GMT -5
Next Monday is Christmas Eve. Week after that is New Year's Eve. Good f***in luck.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,594
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 19, 2018 8:16:08 GMT -5
Same week in each year: 2018: 2,547,000 2017: 2,786,000 2016: 2,944,000 2015: 3,378,000 2014: 3,631,000 2013: 4,112,000 A bump over last week is nothing to get excited about. It's kind of crazy to think they were at 4 million not all that long ago. Makes me wonder what exactly in that timeframe seemed to trigger such a decline, since it's not as if the quality of the show was much higher back then, as best as I can tell. Frankly, the show has seemed to be pretty much the same the entire time... so maybe it's just a matter of a few more years of the same format going by and people getting sick of it?Then again, 2014 was when Punk left, and the year when Bryan had his big WM win but then had to vacate; maybe that was a double whammy that got a lot of the air leaking out of the balloon. I think it’s the bolded part. I think they have been in coast mode for a while, but the show has been very boring since they went to three hours. I think they’ve just been bleeding viewers. Nothing has been all that offensive or actively bad. It’s just a boring show to watch and more and more people are not making a habit to watch it until they forget about it entirely.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 19, 2018 8:35:35 GMT -5
It's kind of crazy to think they were at 4 million not all that long ago. Makes me wonder what exactly in that timeframe seemed to trigger such a decline, since it's not as if the quality of the show was much higher back then, as best as I can tell. Frankly, the show has seemed to be pretty much the same the entire time... so maybe it's just a matter of a few more years of the same format going by and people getting sick of it?Then again, 2014 was when Punk left, and the year when Bryan had his big WM win but then had to vacate; maybe that was a double whammy that got a lot of the air leaking out of the balloon. I think it’s the bolded part. I think they have been in coast mode for a while, but the show has been very boring since they went to three hours. I think they’ve just been bleeding viewers. Nothing has been all that offensive or actively bad. It’s just a boring show to watch and more and more people are not making a habit to watch it until they forget about it entirely. Yeah, I'd ask "then what about the whole stretch circa 2002 through 2013 when the format was pretty much the same, too?" but, well, viewership's been declining pretty steadily all throughout that period, too, and at least 2002-2004 still had major Monday Night War era names around and the intrigue of "which old WCW guys will show up now?" to keep interest going. It's just remarkable how much quicker it seems to be happening, and that's what makes me think it might be just the realization of "wow, this shit's boring" combined with watching potential huge stars that could've bucked the trend get kind of squandered.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,594
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 19, 2018 8:58:38 GMT -5
I think it’s the bolded part. I think they have been in coast mode for a while, but the show has been very boring since they went to three hours. I think they’ve just been bleeding viewers. Nothing has been all that offensive or actively bad. It’s just a boring show to watch and more and more people are not making a habit to watch it until they forget about it entirely. Yeah, I'd ask "then what about the whole stretch circa 2002 through 2013 when the format was pretty much the same, too?" but, well, viewership's been declining pretty steadily all throughout that period, too, and at least 2002-2004 still had major Monday Night War era names around and the intrigue of "which old WCW guys will show up now?" to keep interest going. It's just remarkable how much quicker it seems to be happening, and that's what makes me think it might be just the realization of "wow, this shit's boring" combined with watching potential huge stars that could've bucked the trend get kind of squandered. Yeah when you add the general decline since the death of WCW, it makes their situation look even more dire. We’re in a near two decade decline in TV ratings, and while I think TV ratings are flawed and don’t tell the whole story, I think it’s clear there are fewer wrestling fans. I’m not sure what they can do to pop the business again. It’s bigger than pushing the right people.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,575
Member is Online
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Post by Dub H on Dec 19, 2018 9:15:27 GMT -5
We all make jokes, and have for years, about the third hour being death. Problem is, as has been shown in this thread, the numbers say that nearl half of their audience has turned out and not come back, to the point that the third hour has a serous risk of being under 2,000,000 on a regular basis. Yes, it's not "cool" right now, it's not a boom period, fine, and I'm rusty as shit on my viewers to neilson point scale, but if I remember 1.0 is around 1,000,000 viewers. So, looking at the date to date comparision, the 1995 raw from the same date did a 2.3. So it's above that, but barely, and if they're sitting at the same numbers, roughly, that they were when the company had a legitimate chance of going tits up, then there's no way for me to see it as anything close to positive. Yeah, it's certainly a different era, as 1995-1996 WWF could never have hoped to pull in the sponsors or network deals that modern WWE has been able to get due to providing live weekly programming in an era where cable networks are doing everything possible to keep subscribers from cord cutting, but at a certain point the numbers are the numbers and a lack of interest is a lack of interest. They can't afford to get to the end of these new deals with NBC and Fox and not be pulling in at least steady numbers in the 3 million-3.5 million range, not when they're publicly traded and will have investors to answer to if the next TV deal is significantly lower than this one. Five years isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. It's why they were smart to launch the WWE network when they did, to get that revenue stream opened up now and have the infrastructure ready to grow it as needed in the future, but what if five years from now Fox doesn't want to renew Smackdown and they have to start considering running a weekly main roster show online? Does that mean the end of the $9.99 price point, which has been key to its business model? They're not in danger of dying or anything as a company any time soon, but these are serious concerns they need to be thinking about going forward. They basically kept booking things people didnt want. People wanted Ryder ,so have Cena kissing Eve. people wanted Punk,not Rock vs Cena II. people wanted Bryan to be a fightign champion,not jabroned by Kane. People wanted Ryback to dominate the main event, so they had Ryback lose for basically a whole year. People wanted Ziggler, so have Sheamus. and so and so and so. They"threw a bone" once in a while,but that basically becomes less meaningful over time.
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Post by prichardmark on Dec 19, 2018 12:26:43 GMT -5
We all make jokes, and have for years, about the third hour being death. Problem is, as has been shown in this thread, the numbers say that nearl half of their audience has turned out and not come back, to the point that the third hour has a serous risk of being under 2,000,000 on a regular basis. Yes, it's not "cool" right now, it's not a boom period, fine, and I'm rusty as shit on my viewers to neilson point scale, but if I remember 1.0 is around 1,000,000 viewers. So, looking at the date to date comparision, the 1995 raw from the same date did a 2.3. So it's above that, but barely, and if they're sitting at the same numbers, roughly, that they were when the company had a legitimate chance of going tits up, then there's no way for me to see it as anything close to positive. Its not a boom period definitely and wrestling supposedly goes in cycles (Or always has in the past) but they own 2 days out of the week and a monopoly. Twice the amount of people that are should be watching. Theres no rival wrestling promotion around yet its drawing as bad as wrestling as is in 1995 but at least back then you had WCW stealing viewers. This company seriously needs to be looked at and some management cages being rattled. IMO. If not the death spiral will continue and they will be hitting 1.0 ratings before too long. Just over the last few months they have lost 500K viewers I think since September. Back then there was more of an excuse for them for people not to watch. WCW was ramping up and acquiring talent from them and going head to head
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,795
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Post by salz4life on Dec 19, 2018 12:29:06 GMT -5
They pretty much lost all the people they gained by the 3rd hour. Hopefully Jan 7th brings it cause that’s not good. They'll be lucky to break two million against the CFB Title game, especially if Notre Dame makes it. F Notre Dame. GO BLUE!
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Post by willywonka666 on Dec 19, 2018 13:30:27 GMT -5
I probably sound like a snob, but I knew the announcement would be a disappointment. Admittedly I would’ve tuned in, but probably right back out once the family reunion started.
I’m surprised some fell for it
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Dec 19, 2018 14:09:33 GMT -5
I think it’s the bolded part. I think they have been in coast mode for a while, but the show has been very boring since they went to three hours. I think they’ve just been bleeding viewers. Nothing has been all that offensive or actively bad. It’s just a boring show to watch and more and more people are not making a habit to watch it until they forget about it entirely. Yeah, I'd ask "then what about the whole stretch circa 2002 through 2013 when the format was pretty much the same, too?" but, well, viewership's been declining pretty steadily all throughout that period, too, and at least 2002-2004 still had major Monday Night War era names around and the intrigue of "which old WCW guys will show up now?" to keep interest going. It's just remarkable how much quicker it seems to be happening, and that's what makes me think it might be just the realization of "wow, this shit's boring" combined with watching potential huge stars that could've bucked the trend get kind of squandered. Actually looking at the numbers, Raw's ratings were fairly consistent (at least at this time of the year) throughout the 2000s. Here's every post-December PPV Raw rating (not viewership) from 2002 to 2017: 2002 - 3.45 2003 - 3.5 2004 - 2.75 (no Raw PPV in Dec this year so went with closest date. This was also a Best of Year Special, previous week's rating was 3.75 and next week 3.5 aka this number was an anomaly really) 2005 - 3.7 (see above re: no PPV, this was also a Tribute to the Troops special albeit the rating was not really affected from the previous week) 2006 - 3.8 (again, no PPV but closest date to this year's Raw) 2007 - 3.48 2008 - 3.3 2009 - 3.29 2010 - 3.28 2011 - 2.9 2012 - 2.87 2013 - 2.93 2014 - 2.65 2015 - 2.66 2016 - 2.02 (no Raw PPV so closest date) 2017 - 1.95 (see above) Probably the most damning part there is the full ratings point drop from 2013 to 2017, even with no post-PPV bump that's still poor. As you can see though, the 2000s held up fairly well with only a small drop towards the end of the decade.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 19, 2018 14:57:31 GMT -5
We all make jokes, and have for years, about the third hour being death. Problem is, as has been shown in this thread, the numbers say that nearl half of their audience has turned out and not come back, to the point that the third hour has a serous risk of being under 2,000,000 on a regular basis. Yes, it's not "cool" right now, it's not a boom period, fine, and I'm rusty as shit on my viewers to neilson point scale, but if I remember 1.0 is around 1,000,000 viewers. So, looking at the date to date comparision, the 1995 raw from the same date did a 2.3. So it's above that, but barely, and if they're sitting at the same numbers, roughly, that they were when the company had a legitimate chance of going tits up, then there's no way for me to see it as anything close to positive. The ratings do not equate across time to the same amount of viewers. A 2.0 rating today is more viewers than a 2.0 rating in 1995 was. The rating is actually a percentage of the households that have TVs that watched the show. So a 2.0 rating in 1995 would represent less viewers than a 2.0 in 2018.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 19, 2018 15:17:14 GMT -5
We all make jokes, and have for years, about the third hour being death. Problem is, as has been shown in this thread, the numbers say that nearl half of their audience has turned out and not come back, to the point that the third hour has a serous risk of being under 2,000,000 on a regular basis. Yes, it's not "cool" right now, it's not a boom period, fine, and I'm rusty as shit on my viewers to neilson point scale, but if I remember 1.0 is around 1,000,000 viewers. So, looking at the date to date comparision, the 1995 raw from the same date did a 2.3. So it's above that, but barely, and if they're sitting at the same numbers, roughly, that they were when the company had a legitimate chance of going tits up, then there's no way for me to see it as anything close to positive. The ratings do not equate across time to the same amount of viewers. A 2.0 rating today is more viewers than a 2.0 rating in 1995 was. The rating is actually a percentage of the households that have TVs that watched the show. So a 2.0 rating in 1995 would represent less viewers than a 2.0 in 2018. I understand that ratings are a bit different, wasn't sure on the equation, but as for representing percentages, with "cord cutting" being far more prevalent, and thus less viewers overall, the 2.0 would be of a smaller overall number, wouldn't it? Just thinking that it may at the very least even things out to where they would be if not the same at least closer.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 19, 2018 15:53:25 GMT -5
The ratings do not equate across time to the same amount of viewers. A 2.0 rating today is more viewers than a 2.0 rating in 1995 was. The rating is actually a percentage of the households that have TVs that watched the show. So a 2.0 rating in 1995 would represent less viewers than a 2.0 in 2018. I understand that ratings are a bit different, wasn't sure on the equation, but as for representing percentages, with "cord cutting" being far more prevalent, and thus less viewers overall, the 2.0 would be of a smaller overall number, wouldn't it? Just thinking that it may at the very least even things out to where they would be if not the same at least closer. Even with cord cutting, the amount of people with cable TV in 2018 is still way higher than 1995-1996.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 19, 2018 17:27:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd ask "then what about the whole stretch circa 2002 through 2013 when the format was pretty much the same, too?" but, well, viewership's been declining pretty steadily all throughout that period, too, and at least 2002-2004 still had major Monday Night War era names around and the intrigue of "which old WCW guys will show up now?" to keep interest going. It's just remarkable how much quicker it seems to be happening, and that's what makes me think it might be just the realization of "wow, this shit's boring" combined with watching potential huge stars that could've bucked the trend get kind of squandered. Actually looking at the numbers, Raw's ratings were fairly consistent (at least at this time of the year) throughout the 2000s. Here's every post-December PPV Raw rating (not viewership) from 2002 to 2017: 2002 - 3.45 2003 - 3.5 2004 - 2.75 (no Raw PPV in Dec this year so went with closest date. This was also a Best of Year Special, previous week's rating was 3.75 and next week 3.5 aka this number was an anomaly really) 2005 - 3.7 (see above re: no PPV, this was also a Tribute to the Troops special albeit the rating was not really affected from the previous week) 2006 - 3.8 (again, no PPV but closest date to this year's Raw) 2007 - 3.48 2008 - 3.3 2009 - 3.29 2010 - 3.28 2011 - 2.9 2012 - 2.87 2013 - 2.93 2014 - 2.65 2015 - 2.66 2016 - 2.02 (no Raw PPV so closest date) 2017 - 1.95 (see above) Probably the most damning part there is the full ratings point drop from 2013 to 2017, even with no post-PPV bump that's still poor. As you can see though, the 2000s held up fairly well with only a small drop towards the end of the decade. Interesting to see the ratings numbers held as they did, though I guess it might also be a question of hard numbers in actual viewership. Nevertheless, there's no ignoring that even if there was at least a trend of viewership decline going back awhile, the steep recent drop is kind of mind blowing.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 19, 2018 17:57:43 GMT -5
Same week in each year: 2018: 2,547,000 2017: 2,786,000 2016: 2,944,000 2015: 3,378,000 2014: 3,631,000 2013: 4,112,000 A bump over last week is nothing to get excited about. It's kind of crazy to think they were at 4 million not all that long ago. Makes me wonder what exactly in that timeframe seemed to trigger such a decline, since it's not as if the quality of the show was much higher back then, as best as I can tell. Frankly, the show has seemed to be pretty much the same the entire time...so maybe it's just a matter of a few more years of the same format going by and people getting sick of it? Then again, 2014 was when Punk left, and the year when Bryan had his big WM win but then had to vacate; maybe that was a double whammy that got a lot of the air leaking out of the balloon. I'm starting to think it might have been Brock Lesnar: absentee champion. And possibly not pulling the trigger on Reigns. I think he would have drawn more as a champion everyone hated than he would have constantly having his booking shaken up to make us 'organically' like him.
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