nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,718
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 21, 2018 19:25:15 GMT -5
It is not a major leap of logic to suggest that the man who tapped out to He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named and who lost a WWE championship to Eddie Guerrero can lose his Universal title to someone of similar size and stature with a) a similar moveset to either of those men and b) with a supernatural gimmick to boot. It would require a build-up of the challenger into the kind of figure who can fit in the mold as the Face of the Company(tm). But it has been done before numerous times by this company with great aplomb and great success, with almost every face champion to hold the belt prior to 1994.
The building of Bret Hart from out-of-nowhere-new-WWF-champion in October 1992 into the potential defeater of Yokozuna in April 1993 was the result of positive commentary by people who knew their shit, judicious title defences which built up title challengers while keeping Bret on top, and by the simple art of selection of someone who the company rightly believed could hold the title credibly. They managed that build with Finn in three _weeks_. All the shit booking they've done with him over the last year and a half has not stifled that potential entirely. Right now, though, he's Bret Hart, 1989 version. Give him that I-C shot and the win against Ambrose, then build him up to the main event.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 21, 2018 19:48:59 GMT -5
Also I'm just gonna throw this out there; Tolstoy was a gloomy bitch and my TMNT fanfic Donatello Does Machines is a bold and groundbreaking piece of literature. I won't accept any implications to the contrary.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 21, 2018 23:43:58 GMT -5
Also I'm just gonna throw this out there; Tolstoy was a gloomy bitch and my TMNT fanfic Donatello Does Machines is a bold and groundbreaking piece of literature. I won't accept any implications to the contrary. F***, I wrote Quinn Morgendorffer from Daria into a believable wrestling champion, so why can’t they write Finn Balor be one again?
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Dec 22, 2018 0:01:32 GMT -5
Heres the problem that still exists within WWE...
..so what?
He's going to be the same guy, doing the same stuff, just at a different part on the card. He's a fine wrestler, but he'll be doing the same stuff that made most of us just accept him as a midcarder and now he'll be doing the same thing but probably fighting for titles.
I mean. This is WWE's attempt to give the fans what they want. Just change around the order of the roster.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,465
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Dec 22, 2018 0:54:16 GMT -5
Also I'm just gonna throw this out there; Tolstoy was a gloomy bitch and my TMNT fanfic Donatello Does Machines is a bold and groundbreaking piece of literature. I won't accept any implications to the contrary. F***, I wrote Quinn Morgendorffer from Daria into a believable wrestling champion, so why can’t they write Finn Balor be one again? You just wait until I get back to writing dirty fanfics again! I'LL SHOW ALL OF YOU! ….Or not because the last time I did, I broke the brains of several board members. Not sure if you were there for that infamous F.A.N. Friday, EoE.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,726
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Post by King Devitt on Dec 22, 2018 1:49:34 GMT -5
Maybe it's just Irma being a bitch again, the stress of prepping for Christmas (I'd honestly be more relaxed prepping for the ducking Apocalypse), or a combination of things, but right now, I'm squarely in the camp of "I'll believe it when I see it." WWE has managed to do the impossible in my eyes: they've f***ed up Finn Balor. I'm totally with you on this one. On one hand, my body is ready for a Finn Balor (long f***ing overdue) push, but at the same time, I'll believe it when I see it. I mean, like Asuka, Finn has remained over in spite of Vince McMahon. That alone should be rewarded. (and has stayed over longer, and dealt with way more bullshit, don't get me started on Vince working himself into a shoot on why Finn couldn't face Lesnar at last years Royal Rumble) And speaking of rewards, the fans being rewarded by someone they cheer for actually being pushed?! What a new and never done before concept Vince, I'm amazed at your new "direction" of stop being a selfish dickhead who doesn't understand wrestling, to cater to the people whose voices matter the most. I have zero faith in Vince McMahon, so prove me wrong. Demon Balor vs. Brock Lesnar is f***ing money (even though I secretly want cocky arrogant heel-ish Real Rock-n-rolla vs. Brock, hell have "the club" officially reform for good at the PPV and help him win, I just want my sexy arrogant Devitt back, kinda over smiley-Irish-guy)
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WWEedy
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,320
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Post by WWEedy on Dec 22, 2018 9:07:43 GMT -5
In a world where there is Undead MMA enthusiast wizards and a dude named Brock Lesnar that can eat them and other nearly 7ft dudes for breakfast? Yeah I'm not putting my money on the beanpole who's only attempt at a gimmick is cosplaying as something from the nether realms yet has no story or much of anything backing it up. Brock could kill him with a cough. See what This Player Hating Mothman said, because I don't see a point in talking about this. Wrestling is supposed to be fun storytelling, not a simulation of "WHO COULD KILL WHO IN A FIGHT BRO". You're missing the point where my main gripe about Balor is that there is no good, fun storytelling behind him or his character. He has been a blank slate, cardboard cutout LGBT abs man for most of his tenure and his done nothing to show that in the context of the product he could even stand toe to toe with your Undead MMA Enthusiast Wizard let alone the man that beat him. Daniel Bryan made sense, he had a strong story pre and post comeback which included defeating HHH, Randy Orton and Batista in one night. He beat John Cena, AJ Styles, took part in what many were driving to be a Mania ME feud with the Miz and so so so much more all mostly told within compelling well thought out angles which contained some of the most memorable promos and segments in recent history. What you're doing is arguing everything except my point and extrapolating my point to be nothing more than the deliberately ridiculous for effect comparison between fanfic and War and Peace, it's stawmaning to the highest degree. I repeat, stop it.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,668
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Post by Nosnorb on Dec 22, 2018 9:32:55 GMT -5
See what This Player Hating Mothman said, because I don't see a point in talking about this. Wrestling is supposed to be fun storytelling, not a simulation of "WHO COULD KILL WHO IN A FIGHT BRO". You're missing the point where my main gripe about Balor is that there is no good, fun storytelling behind him or his character. He has been a blank slate, cardboard cutout LGBT abs man for most of his tenure and his done nothing to show that in the context of the product he could even stand toe to toe with your Undead MMA Enthusiast Wizard let alone the man that beat him. The reason for that has been due to his booking and his storylines, alongside having Lesnar destroy everyone full time on the roster, with only Roman Reigns beating him thanks to Braun Strowman. WWE should be able to write a story where Finn Balor, a dude that actually held the Fruit Roll-Up and hasn't been booked into oblivion and isn't a bitch (yet), can be a credible challenger to Beastie Boy.
It shouldn't be hard.
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Post by Muskrat on Dec 22, 2018 9:39:23 GMT -5
See what This Player Hating Mothman said, because I don't see a point in talking about this. Wrestling is supposed to be fun storytelling, not a simulation of "WHO COULD KILL WHO IN A FIGHT BRO". You're missing the point where my main gripe about Balor is that there is no good, fun storytelling behind him or his character. He has been a blank slate, cardboard cutout LGBT abs man for most of his tenure and his done nothing to show that in the context of the product he could even stand toe to toe with your Undead MMA Enthusiast Wizard let alone the man that beat him. Daniel Bryan made sense, he had a strong story pre and post comeback which included defeating HHH, Randy Orton and Batista in one night. He beat John Cena, AJ Styles, took part in what many were driving to be a Mania ME feud with the Miz and so so so much more all mostly told within compelling well thought out angles which contained some of the most memorable promos and segments in recent history. What you're doing is arguing everything except my point and extrapolating my point to be nothing more than the deliberately ridiculous for effect comparison between fanfic and War and Peace, it's stawmaning to the highest degree. I repeat, stop it. Balor has beaten like every main eventer but Brock. He beat Roman Reigns clean, and Roman holds wins over Brock, Taker and Braun. MMA Math doesn’t work in MMA, but you can damn sure apply that logic to pro wrestling. There’s no reason Balor can’t be a legit main eventer within one or two major wins to remind people he’s a world beater.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 22, 2018 9:49:57 GMT -5
See what This Player Hating Mothman said, because I don't see a point in talking about this. Wrestling is supposed to be fun storytelling, not a simulation of "WHO COULD KILL WHO IN A FIGHT BRO". You're missing the point where my main gripe about Balor is that there is no good, fun storytelling behind him or his character. He has been a blank slate, cardboard cutout LGBT abs man for most of his tenure and his done nothing to show that in the context of the product he could even stand toe to toe with your Undead MMA Enthusiast Wizard let alone the man that beat him. Daniel Bryan made sense, he had a strong story pre and post comeback which included defeating HHH, Randy Orton and Batista in one night. He beat John Cena, AJ Styles, took part in what many were driving to be a Mania ME feud with the Miz and so so so much more all mostly told within compelling well thought out angles which contained some of the most memorable promos and segments in recent history. What you're doing is arguing everything except my point and extrapolating my point to be nothing more than the deliberately ridiculous for effect comparison between fanfic and War and Peace, it's stawmaning to the highest degree. I repeat, stop it. Then would you like to explain in what way your "deliberately ridiculous for effect" point even kind of makes sense as an equivalent comparison to what's going on here because it seems like people aren't really seeing it. You're correlating the ability to tell a story wherein you can do whatever you want and break any boundaries of hard realism with "all stories the same" and it's just kind of headscratching. You've set up a way more insane strawman ragging on the spiel about quality of fiction. Especially when justifying Daniel Bryan doing what he did with "he had a strong story" is entirely the point trying to be made here. Putting Balor into a position where he has good, strong storytelling would make him a viable contender hat the narrative has justified. Twerkin' is saying they can if they tell that story, your main argument only stands in service of them not telling that story now and therefore it being impossible to tell it.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 22, 2018 10:44:53 GMT -5
See what This Player Hating Mothman said, because I don't see a point in talking about this. Wrestling is supposed to be fun storytelling, not a simulation of "WHO COULD KILL WHO IN A FIGHT BRO". You're missing the point where my main gripe about Balor is that there is no good, fun storytelling behind him or his character. He has been a blank slate, cardboard cutout LGBT abs man for most of his tenure and his done nothing to show that in the context of the product he could even stand toe to toe with your Undead MMA Enthusiast Wizard let alone the man that beat him. I stopped reading here because it's a straight up lie. From the very start your problem with Balor in this thread has been "HIM SMALL, BROCK BIG". You're changing your argument because no one is agreeing with you.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,076
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 22, 2018 12:09:57 GMT -5
Sort of wonder how much of "Let's Push Finn Now!" has to do with Vince apparently having MAJORLY soured on Rollins...
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 22, 2018 13:06:04 GMT -5
Sort of wonder how much of "Let's Push Finn Now!" has to do with Vince apparently having MAJORLY soured on Rollins... If I had to guess..a lot. A lot, a lot. Finn definitely seemed to be waiting in the wings - sorta thing. Seth, around the gauntlet match time, was on fire. But this feud with Ambrose has just been scorched earth. And if ya look last past Seth, who else can they go to on RAW? Finn.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 22, 2018 13:57:16 GMT -5
Sort of wonder how much of "Let's Push Finn Now!" has to do with Vince apparently having MAJORLY soured on Rollins... If I had to guess..a lot. A lot, a lot. Finn definitely seemed to be waiting in the wings - sorta thing. Seth, around the gauntlet match time, was on fire. But this feud with Ambrose has just been scorched earth. And if ya look last past Seth, who else can they go to on RAW? Finn. I prefer Finn, so I'm okay with it. But what a shame for Seth. It's not entirely his fault that match at TLC was trash. It's amazing how much these agents seem to get away with, without catching any responsibility.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 22, 2018 15:09:05 GMT -5
... but beating drew would show that he’s being pushed, Dave.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 16:01:01 GMT -5
I think Seth's better than Finn, but I like Finn and will take a push for both. I'M HARDCORE!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 16:22:00 GMT -5
If I had to guess..a lot. A lot, a lot. Finn definitely seemed to be waiting in the wings - sorta thing. Seth, around the gauntlet match time, was on fire. But this feud with Ambrose has just been scorched earth. And if ya look last past Seth, who else can they go to on RAW? Finn. I prefer Finn, so I'm okay with it. But what a shame for Seth. It's not entirely his fault that match at TLC was trash. It's amazing how much these agents seem to get away with, without catching any responsibility.This is so true. We've seen so many matches, feuds, angles, so many fail due to agents and at the end of the day these wrestlers get fire thrown at them to the point where anytime you listen to a "Wrassle podcast" you've got legends saying "it's not the boys."
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 22, 2018 17:57:02 GMT -5
The fact they can "lose faith" in guys for bombing a match that was pretty much set up to fail like he hasn't impressed so many times before speaks to how fickle and insane management is. I absolutely think Finn should be an important part of the show but if he's only getting it because he's the new flavour of the month after Seth had a bad outing then it's not something I can get too excited about, just because how long is it until they book Finn into a shitty situation where he's given a match that's intentionally held back but sandwiched between to absolutely brilliant matches? How long until they book him in a match they probably shouldn't, he puts on a middling but not necessarily atrocious showing, and they decide he's not worth a top spot anymore? Creative and the agents are to blame for that match way more than the dudes in the ring are and it's the same old song and dance that leaves even words like "Finn Balor to be pushed soon" feeling kind of hollow and hopeless.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 22, 2018 19:21:31 GMT -5
In fact, if I were Seth and this is the case, I would specifically and publicly ask that the agent responsible for that match never produce my matches or speak to me again.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 22, 2018 22:12:06 GMT -5
Is there an actual story to this stuff specifically about Vince being done with a Rollins push? The only one I’ve read is that he didn’t like the Rollins/Ambrose match at TLC, so I haven’t seen anything else beyond that.
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