|
Post by Big Chungus on Dec 25, 2018 5:31:09 GMT -5
Why would a guy, who in kayfabe had isolated himself and was hanging around up in the rafters look like he just spent a week on a beach in Florida?
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on Dec 25, 2018 6:55:27 GMT -5
I think we can generally agree Sting wasn't in the best shape of his life, but it's not like WCW main events at the time were known for their work rate. They were built on the spectacle. There's no way Sting was in worse shape than Roddy Piper who Hogan put over a hell of a lot more than he ever did Sting. It's also not like Sting wasn't at TV every week. Did they not think to say something to Sting first if they had an issue with the shape his body was in? That match legit could have lasted 30 seconds and just been Sting hitting the corner splash on a stunned Hogan, scorpion deathlock, submission, crowd loses their minds. That's what I don't get. Piper beat Hogan twice on PPV IIRC. Both times Piper was older and not in great shape, both times Hogan acted afraid and Piper got his stuff in and won. So Bisch and Hogan should have had no problem with the layout of what happened. I think the only difference is Hogan saw how white hot Sting was getting, and didn't want to push him over the top because he's a bitter old jackass who wants to protect his spot at all costs. The whole out of shape thing rings true since he obviously had not been in a ring in a long time nor did he do match preparation which left him rusty in the ring. He wasn't coming out there with a beer gut and all. Could be Eric talking out his ass because Hulk caught cold feet and maybe Sting drug problem also factored into it as well which forced him to leave a few months later if i'm not mistaken However, what I can never get with was the whole tanning shit. His gimmick was always one of darkness and brooding so why would he visit a tanning bed. That shit made no sense what so ever Bisch: "He showed up not tan at all, his flat top was overgrown and his rat tail was a mess. It was like it wasn't even 1992 anymore. I threw up right then and there."
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,572
|
Post by cjh on Dec 25, 2018 10:13:48 GMT -5
Bischoff mentioned multiple times that Sting showed up looking distracted and looking like he didn't give a shit about the whole thing, which pissed off Bischoff and Hogan since 18 months of build had been put into this match. Conrad basically ignored that part and just went "so you were mad he wasn't tan enough?"
|
|
|
Post by héad.casé on Dec 25, 2018 10:31:04 GMT -5
Bischoff mentioned multiple times that Sting showed up looking distracted and looking like he didn't give a shit about the whole thing, which pissed off Bischoff and Hogan since 18 months of build had been put into this match. Conrad basically ignored that part and just went "so you were mad he wasn't tan enough?" If I remember right, didn't Bischoff also speculate that Sting may have been feeling that way because he really didn't believe Hogan was gonna put him over at the end?
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,572
|
Post by cjh on Dec 25, 2018 10:40:52 GMT -5
Bischoff mentioned multiple times that Sting showed up looking distracted and looking like he didn't give a shit about the whole thing, which pissed off Bischoff and Hogan since 18 months of build had been put into this match. Conrad basically ignored that part and just went "so you were mad he wasn't tan enough?" If I remember right, didn't Bischoff also speculate that Sting may have been feeling that way because he really didn't believe Hogan was gonna put him over at the end? Yeah, he speculated that, though he also, without outright saying so, blamed Sting's attitude on his drug/alcohol/marriage issues, which Sting was able to hide pretty well in 1997 since he wasn't wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Dec 25, 2018 10:49:28 GMT -5
Sting pulled a Braden Walker?
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 25, 2018 10:50:02 GMT -5
Bischoff doesn’t get it, despite it happening more than twenty years ago, the Starrcade 97 main event was the beginning of the end for wcw.
|
|
|
Post by Wilfred on Dec 25, 2018 10:55:26 GMT -5
Bischoff doesn’t get it, despite it happening more than twenty years ago, the Starrcade 97 main event was the beginning of the end for wcw. This is an issue I don’t get why Conrad didn’t press him on. They didn’t screw Sting so much as they screwed the fans. After the build and hype fans got the middle finger
|
|
|
Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Dec 25, 2018 11:00:25 GMT -5
Sting being out of shape is a shitty excuse, because it was Bischoff's job to make sure he stayed in shape. I mean, if I was booking a year-long angle with one wrestler not wrestling the whole time, then I'd make damn sure that that wrestler could go when it was time for him to get back in the ring. Saying that he booked the screwy finish because Sting was out of shape just makes him look like terrible booker. He just doesn't want to admit what everyone knows: if Hulk Hogan had told Eric Bischoff to eat shit, he'd have done it.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 25, 2018 12:38:37 GMT -5
Bischoff mentioned multiple times that Sting showed up looking distracted and looking like he didn't give a shit about the whole thing, which pissed off Bischoff and Hogan since 18 months of build had been put into this match. Conrad basically ignored that part and just went "so you were mad he wasn't tan enough?" Story is for a while, Sting didn't believe Hogan was going to do the job and was going to find his way out of doing it
It's a bit of a mess on both parts, eventually Sting drug problem did force him to leave a few months after I believe but there is no way of knowing that at Starrcade
However, without doubt Hogan got cold feet and Eric was too far into Hulk to see he was getting played. The money is already for Starrcade so now Hogan is paid and can look forward. You also have an incoming Bret Hart who should have been the biggest babyface in wrestling (Sting was the anti-hero)
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Dec 25, 2018 20:36:37 GMT -5
Bischoff doesn’t get it, despite it happening more than twenty years ago, the Starrcade 97 main event was the beginning of the end for wcw. This is an issue I don’t get why Conrad didn’t press him on. They didn’t screw Sting so much as they screwed the fans. After the build and hype fans got the middle finger Yep, the fans wanted to see Hogan finally get his comeuppance and after dominating as champion for a year, Sting beating Hogan clean was the obvious payoff. Then couple the screwy Starrcade finish with Austin finally getting his big championship win at WrestleMania and the tide completely changed. WWF gave the fans what they wanted and WCW didn't. While Bischoff has some valid points about Sting's drug issues, what he completely ignores is Sting got the belt and win over Hogan at SuperBrawl VIII less than two months later. It is not like Sting's issues got better at that point and from my understanding progressed until finally deciding to clean up in September of that year. The real question is was it politics, or just WCW thinking they could milk the match with the held up belt angle and rematch with Sting winning at SuperBrawl VIII? They also had the Nitro match in January that went off the air before the finish, leading to the finish airing on Thunder's debut episode. What Starrcade ultimately accomplished was causing the fans to lose trust in WCW. Most Nitro main event finishes were DQs or no contests, but to have the biggest PPV of the year with a main event built for over a year end in this fashion really cheated the fans. I have to wonder how much WCW PPV buyrates went down after this and how many paid for SuperBrawl VIII vs Starrcade '97?
|
|
|
Post by brown bricks on Dec 25, 2018 21:00:50 GMT -5
I've heard the Starrcade 97 show is an all-timer when it comes to bullshit and this thread validates that. I can't imagine listening to this show and trusting a single word he says. I thought Prichard was a champion liar (and he is) but Bischoff may have him beat.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,954
|
Post by chazraps on Dec 25, 2018 21:08:28 GMT -5
I've heard the Starrcade 97 show is an all-timer when it comes to bullshit and this thread validates that. I can't imagine listening to this show and trusting a single word he says. I thought Prichard was a champion liar (and he is) but Bischoff may have him beat. Prichard at least follows a certain logic for his perspective, to where I don't think he feels he's outright lying when inaccurate, but misremembering and having certain viewpoints due to being in the WWE bubble. Bischoff can be surprisingly candid, honest and vulnerable about his business practices up to 1996 (his 1994 Kayfabe Commentaries is really a refreshing and surprising watch), but I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say anyone taking Bischoff's side on Sting not winning clean at Starrcade '97 is not just wrong, but a bad person.
|
|
|
Post by timelimitdraw on Dec 25, 2018 21:12:31 GMT -5
If that was Bischoff covering for Sting's drug issues by giving a vague excuse, then I can respect it. If it was just about physical conditioning, then it was the wrong decision. You could always have Hogan win it back the next night to continue the story, but if there weren't drug issues at play, then that chapter needed to end with a clean Sting victory - period.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 21:16:32 GMT -5
Bischoff doesn’t get it, despite it happening more than twenty years ago, the Starrcade 97 main event was the beginning of the end for wcw. This is an issue I don’t get why Conrad didn’t press him on. They didn’t screw Sting so much as they screwed the fans. After the build and hype fans got the middle finger Yeah pretty much. If Sting is so out of shape that he shouldn't be wrestling, then that's one thing. But if Sting is there, and you're gonna put him in the ring anyways, you might as well give the fans what they have been building them up for over a year. If fans discover that Sting can't go, then let the fans decide they've had enough of him, but still commit to the story that nWo is vanquished and move on to a new story. It's not like there was a shortage of guys to take over for Sting if he didn't pan out. Lex Luger was there, you could turn guys from the nWo, Bret Hart obviously. The Sting/Hogan match had only one result that made any sense. Give Sting the win, fake it till he makes it, or let him fail, whatever disappointment that would come afterward would be much milder than having Sting lose at Starrcade.
|
|
|
Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Dec 25, 2018 21:32:41 GMT -5
The whole thing about him being 'out of shape' was always bizarre to me. He looked great at Starrcade. Yes, he was significantly skinnier but when your character is based on The Crow and the gimmick calls for being a brooding loner you're not supposed to have that roided up surfer body from the early 90s.
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,572
|
Post by cjh on Dec 25, 2018 21:37:28 GMT -5
If that was Bischoff covering for Sting's drug issues by giving a vague excuse, then I can respect it. If it was just about physical conditioning, then it was the wrong decision. You could always have Hogan win it back the next night to continue the story, but if there weren't drug issues at play, then that chapter needed to end with a clean Sting victory - period. Again, it wasn't "Sting didn't have a tan." It was "we've built this thing up for 18 months, and he shows up seeming like this match, the biggest one of his career, is the last thing on his mind right now." Bischoff still had Sting go over because he didn't think there would be any way people would have accepted a Hogan victory or a Sting DQ win that kept the title on Hogan.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,891
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 26, 2018 0:11:26 GMT -5
If that was Bischoff covering for Sting's drug issues by giving a vague excuse, then I can respect it. If it was just about physical conditioning, then it was the wrong decision. You could always have Hogan win it back the next night to continue the story, but if there weren't drug issues at play, then that chapter needed to end with a clean Sting victory - period. Again, it wasn't "Sting didn't have a tan." It was "we've built this thing up for 18 months, and he shows up seeming like this match, the biggest one of his career, is the last thing on his mind right now." Bischoff still had Sting go over because he didn't think there would be any way people would have accepted a Hogan victory or a Sting DQ win that kept the title on Hogan. Unless Sting outright shouldn’t have been in the ring, you do the proper finish. The finish isn’t for Sting. Or Hogan. Or Bischoff. It’s for the fans and for the story you’re telling.
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,572
|
Post by cjh on Dec 26, 2018 7:35:12 GMT -5
Again, it wasn't "Sting didn't have a tan." It was "we've built this thing up for 18 months, and he shows up seeming like this match, the biggest one of his career, is the last thing on his mind right now." Bischoff still had Sting go over because he didn't think there would be any way people would have accepted a Hogan victory or a Sting DQ win that kept the title on Hogan. Unless Sting outright shouldn’t have been in the ring, you do the proper finish. The finish isn’t for Sting. Or Hogan. Or Bischoff. It’s for the fans and for the story you’re telling. Bischoff's response to that is that the narrative and negative feelings about the finish are totally in retrospect. He told a story of a guy who was at Starrcade 1997 as a teenager recently complaining to him about the finish. As they talked, the guy admitted his opinion that the finish was bad came years later after discussing it and reading about it. At the building that night, he and thousands of others were jumping out of their seats in joy when Bret called for the bell.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 26, 2018 8:46:01 GMT -5
If that was Bischoff covering for Sting's drug issues by giving a vague excuse, then I can respect it. If it was just about physical conditioning, then it was the wrong decision. You could always have Hogan win it back the next night to continue the story, but if there weren't drug issues at play, then that chapter needed to end with a clean Sting victory - period. Everything I've heard indicates that Sting was in poor shape because he was in drug detox so that explain why he was in poor shape. But one guy Eric wouldnt screw over or talk bad about is Sting. Stated Sting was always a class act and professional and Eric credits him a lot for helping get the boys to accept him as boss. Hell Eric said Sting only asked for 2 things his entire time from Eric. 1)was hiring Lex and 2) helping to promote a movie Sting did
|
|