"Grudge Feuds"

[romanstylesiii]

Back in the 80's and in a bit of the 90's, most feuds were built around the context that you wanted to better your position to either get an IC or World Title shot. When there was a Grudge Feud, they seemed to mean way more (Warrior/Savage).

Now they seem to be more important than titles. While I like Joe/Jeff Hardy, they are in the 5 millionth grudge feud of the year and neither (character) really seem to have any ambition of winning the world title.

I don't know, I just miss the day's when everything circles around the title. Austin would cut promos about how he needed the world title. Now it just seems secondary to whatever feud is happening. 

Dean winning the IC title should have been a big moment, but it fell flat because (imo) the title simply did not matter in the fued (sure there were also other reasons. It was just there.

An example of the opposite of this, is Becky changing her character completely because she wanted to be champion. And it made that belt feel important enough to main event a PPV. 

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

The grudge feuds back in the day were based on things like "You sliced my face up with your spurs" or "You painted a picture of my wife's face on your dick" instead of today's "I demand respect" and "I, too, demand respect". That added just a bit of sizzle to the grudge.

[Deleted]

Money. They hardly ever talk about how a higher place on the card means they get paid more. Gorilla talked about it constantly. Losing meant you didn't get paid as much.
If your opponent got you so riled up you got DQed, you'd be frickin' pissed. "That asshole got me off my game and caused me to lose on a technicality. I'm gonna regroup and do a better job next time."

Then you'd have another match, opponent is trying to get you burned up again. You take a risk chasing him outside the ring and he's a sneaky bastard, gets in the ring after hitting you with a low blow or running your head into the post. You get counted out and, again, come up short.
Now you're not just pissed you came up with "the short end of the purse money", he's making you look like a fool in the process.

Now, you don't want to just win. You want to take it further by ripping it out of his ass. You're out for blood. That's how much you hate this guy; the money doesn't matter anymore. You demand satisfaction!

[anglarite]

It can't really be including the title while the reigning champion keeps no-showing and clearly just keeps it warm until Reigns return.

[MrElijah]

Dec 26, 2018 7:24:57 GMT -5 @sandman said:

Money. They hardly ever talk about how a higher place on the card means they get paid more. Gorilla talked about it constantly. Losing meant you didn't get paid as much.
If your opponent got you so riled up you got DQed, you'd be frickin' pissed. "That asshole got me off my game and caused me to lose on a technicality. I'm gonna regroup and do a better job next time."

Then you'd have another match, opponent is trying to get you burned up again. You take a risk chasing him outside the ring and he's a sneaky bastard, gets in the ring after hitting you with a low blow or running your head into the post. You get counted out and, again, come up short.
Now you're not just pissed you came up with "the short end of the purse money", he's making you look like a fool in the process.

Now, you don't want to just win. You want to take it further by ripping it out of his ass. You're out for blood. That's how much you hate this guy; the money doesn't matter anymore. You demand satisfaction!

Money was a great motivator. Watching an old Harley Race promo from Hawaii, Race goes on about defending the World Title against the local guy but he adds in the fact the guy coast him $10,000 by besting him in a Battle Royal. And now Harley wants to teach him a lesson.

See that? Even the champ is watching his pockets.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2018 8:31:45 GMT -5 MrElijah said:

Dec 26, 2018 7:24:57 GMT -5 @sandman said:

Money. They hardly ever talk about how a higher place on the card means they get paid more. Gorilla talked about it constantly. Losing meant you didn't get paid as much.
If your opponent got you so riled up you got DQed, you'd be frickin' pissed. "That asshole got me off my game and caused me to lose on a technicality. I'm gonna regroup and do a better job next time."

Then you'd have another match, opponent is trying to get you burned up again. You take a risk chasing him outside the ring and he's a sneaky bastard, gets in the ring after hitting you with a low blow or running your head into the post. You get counted out and, again, come up short.
Now you're not just pissed you came up with "the short end of the purse money", he's making you look like a fool in the process.

Now, you don't want to just win. You want to take it further by ripping it out of his ass. You're out for blood. That's how much you hate this guy; the money doesn't matter anymore. You demand satisfaction!

Money was a great motivator. Watching an old Harley Race promo from Hawaii, Race goes on about defending the World Title against the local guy but he adds in the fact the guy coast him $10,000 by besting him in a Battle Royal. And now Harley wants to teach him a lesson.

See that? Even the champ is watching his pockets.

It is not that hard to believe money is a motivator; in all walks of life, no matter how rich or poor you are, you wanna get paid.

Cobra Clutch Challenge for $5,000. Sgt. Slaughter beats a few guys; one guy so bad, announcer Pat Patterson had to make the save.
Sarge calls him out. "Maybe you wanna try?"
"Nah, I'm not ready."
Every week, same thing. "I'm still studying the films of how to break it."
Sarge takes it up a notch "Patterson! The General [Grand Wizard, his manager] is willing to add $5,000 of his OWN money to mine! Only for you! $10,000! You got the guts?!"
Vince: "Here comes Pat Patterson to accept the challenge!"

Johnny Valentine did the $1,000 Challenge in the '70s. He'd bring out a fish bowl with $1,000 in silver dollars every week. "Beat me in under 10 minutes, this can be yours." Every money-hungry bum in the area took a crack at it and failed.
Here comes Number One Paul Jones, one of the top babyfaces in the area. [Paraphrasing what they'd say.]
"I wanna go with you, I wouldn't mind winning your money."
"Nah, you're not worthy," Johnny would tell him.
"So you're scared I'll beat you and take your money?"
"I have nothing to gain by beating you. Hit the road."
Paul starts protesting until Johnny makes him a deal. "If you match my $1,000 with your own, we can have a match. Otherwise it's just a waste of my time."

Now, it's not just about the money; pride is at stake, too.

[MrElijah]

Dec 26, 2018 8:59:34 GMT -5 @sandman said:

Dec 26, 2018 8:31:45 GMT -5 MrElijah said:

Money was a great motivator. Watching an old Harley Race promo from Hawaii, Race goes on about defending the World Title against the local guy but he adds in the fact the guy coast him $10,000 by besting him in a Battle Royal. And now Harley wants to teach him a lesson.

See that? Even the champ is watching his pockets.

It is not that hard to believe money is a motivator; in all walks of life, no matter how rich or poor you are, you wanna get paid.

Cobra Clutch Challenge for $5,000. Sgt. Slaughter beats a few guys; one guy so bad, announcer Pat Patterson had to make the save.
Sarge calls him out. "Maybe you wanna try?"
"Nah, I'm not ready."
Every week, same thing. "I'm still studying the films of how to break it."
Sarge takes it up a notch "Patterson! The General [Grand Wizard, his manager] is willing to add $5,000 of his OWN money to mine! Only for you! $10,000! You got the guts?!"
Vince: "Here comes Pat Patterson to accept the challenge!"

Johnny Valentine did the $1,000 Challenge in the '70s. He'd bring out a fish bowl with $1,000 in silver dollars every week. "Beat me in under 10 minutes, this can be yours." Every money-hungry bum in the area took a crack at it and failed.
Here comes Number One Paul Jones, one of the top babyfaces in the area. [Paraphrasing what they'd say.]
"I wanna go with you, I wouldn't mind winning your money."
"Nah, you're not worthy," Johnny would tell him.
"So you're scared I'll beat you and take your money?"
"I have nothing to gain by beating you. Hit the road."
Paul starts protesting until Johnny makes him a deal. "If you match my $1,000 with your own, we can have a match. Otherwise it's just a waste of my time."

Now, it's not just about the money; pride is at stake, too.

Miz and/or EC3 would be perfect for this. And dammit, we need money matches back, hell, show us some of the guys & gals as some big money players. Show Asuka getting chauffeured, I wanna see New Day in suits again. Shit, let the Usos have an excessively expensive piece of jewelry.

And bring back bounties!

[Toilet Paper Roll]

Matches have no meanings any longer. You can’t really have a grudge match because the guys have already wrestled one another a hundred times and will wrestle a hundred more times just with added stipulations and in the end nothing really changes.

What’s suppose to be the incentive for wrestlers in 90% of these matches?

[Fauxnaki]

There we're more grudge matches back in the 80s because it was full of drugged up, paranoid nutcases that shoot hated each other. Bring it back.

[The Rick Jericho]

Ambrose vs Rollins in 2014 was a grudge feud. In 2018 I want them to move on. Sad.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2018 5:03:57 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

The grudge feuds back in the day were based on things like "You sliced my face up with your spurs" or "You painted a picture of my wife's face on your dick" instead of today's "I demand respect" and "I, too, demand respect". That added just a bit of sizzle to the grudge.

Even so, with that first instance, it cost Brutus a shot at the I-C title at SummerSlam.
Which reminds me. I have no idea how that Beefcake-Bass feud even ended.

[TWERKIN' MAGGLE]

Randy Orton made me shake his hand, we will go to WAR.

[Deleted]

Amazing point. These days feuds are either about titles or grudges. There's no in the middle feud for position or even being ticked off by another person. What this company doesn't understand is that every feud doesn't have to be on OD. That not only takes away from the performers if they don't live up to it but it takes away from the real grudge feuds because given every feud is that way it doesn't stand out to the feuds that are actual grudges.

[sunnytaker]

yeah I miss the whole "pay window" aspect of the matches. watching the NJPW with jim ross doing the commentary he makes every match seem a little bit more important because he would stress how winning the match would be getting the wrestler the winner's share of the purse. making even a random match have stakes to them even if there was no storyline going on between them. yeah no title may be involved but more money is.

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

Dec 26, 2018 11:06:47 GMT -5 @sandman said:

Dec 26, 2018 5:03:57 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

The grudge feuds back in the day were based on things like "You sliced my face up with your spurs" or "You painted a picture of my wife's face on your dick" instead of today's "I demand respect" and "I, too, demand respect". That added just a bit of sizzle to the grudge.

Even so, with that first instance, it cost Brutus a shot at the I-C title at SummerSlam.
Which reminds me. I have no idea how that Beefcake-Bass feud even ended.

Beefcake put him to sleep and shaved his head on Saturday Night's Main Event right before the 1989 Royal Rumble.

[A Platypus Rave]

Black vs. Velveteen Dream was a great recent grudge feud.

No titles on the line just Velveteen demanding respect from Black and wanting him to say his name.

But... that's NXT who actually seem to have competent writing most of the time since Vince doesn't get involved in it and change what's happening day of.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2018 17:16:58 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

Dec 26, 2018 11:06:47 GMT -5 @sandman said:

Even so, with that first instance, it cost Brutus a shot at the I-C title at SummerSlam.
Which reminds me. I have no idea how that Beefcake-Bass feud even ended.

Beefcake put him to sleep and shaved his head on Saturday Night's Main Event right before the 1989 Royal Rumble.

Now that you said it, I remember that match.
Thank you.

[Chiral]

Dec 26, 2018 17:23:17 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Black vs. Velveteen Dream was a great recent grudge feud.

No titles on the line just Velveteen demanding respect from Black and wanting him to say his name.

But... that's NXT who actually seem to have competent writing most of the time since Vince doesn't get involved in it and change what's happening day of.

It was so refreshingly simple and I loved the payoff that made both look better than they did before the match.

[Tenshigure]

I honestly feel the lack of stables has added to the diminishing returns of grudge feuds. Used to be you'd have guys going through enforcers/jobbers of the crew before making it to the 'final boss' (see: Hollywood Hogan and the nWo, Flair with the Four Horsemen, etc.).

Nowadays you're lucky to have three guys on the same page at all times, and even then there's always in-fighting (unless you're the New Day) and almost weekly interactions with the underdogs in the ring rather than keeping them separated in the build-up.

Hell, look at Becky/Rousey. From Evolution to Survivor Series, we had a whopping THREE WEEKS to build up that match. Injuries aside, that gave them a whopping five shows to build up a proper tension for a fight, and they delivered to such a point that it's a very high chance we're getting the payoff to that match at WrestleMania next year. Neither of them have fought before, neither have even stepped foot in the ring at the same time for more than maybe a minute or two for beatdown shenanigans, but the grudges are real thanks to their promos and social media work.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Dec 26, 2018 17:23:17 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Black vs. Velveteen Dream was a great recent grudge feud.

No titles on the line just Velveteen demanding respect from Black and wanting him to say his name.

But... that's NXT who actually seem to have competent writing most of the time since Vince doesn't get involved in it and change what's happening day of.

This is my favourite feud of the last few years because of what it was about. Great build, great match, great payoff. Both guys more over because of it.