Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Dec 26, 2018 22:34:05 GMT -5
Been going back and watching the last few Royal Rumbles to get ready for 2019 - and I've noticed that from 2014 onwards, the crowd craps all over the finishes, mainly due to the wrong guy winning. It goes back to 2014 for me, when Reigns should've won that match ahead of Batista, then a year later, Reigns wins when the crowd had spent the whole night chanting for Daniel Bryan. Since then Vince has been determined to get his vision across more aggressively than ever. When did you recognise that VKM wasn't really giving a monkeys about what you thought? Except last year when Nakamura dumped Roman to win The Rumble and the fans went apeshit. Vince hasn't really lost it, he just does what he wants and with no competition and guys like Prichard and Patterson no longer around I'm not sure anyone speaks up much against his wishes. I remember, though, that almost everyone expected Roman to win that match because obvious match with Lesnar. Vince subverting that was a moment of brilliance he rarely seems to have anymore.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,938
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Post by chazraps on Dec 26, 2018 22:36:33 GMT -5
I know everybody says this, but having Big John Studd shave his chest for his face turn in 1989.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 22:50:29 GMT -5
Cena’s push in the mid 00s. Dude just wouldn’t listen to his fan base.
The company still hasn’t recovered imo.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Dec 26, 2018 22:55:57 GMT -5
I dunno if there’s a single moment I can pinpoint, but I’ll give you one in recent years that proves he just doesn’t get it:
Meltzer reports that the WWE (that is, Vince) believes that they were responsible for Daniel Bryan getting over. He didn’t get over on his own, it was their booking that led to him becoming a white-hot star.
Now, anybody with a shred of understanding knows that he got over completely on his own merit and in spite of the WWE. But because they think they made Bryan, they’ve attempted to replicate that with losing streak gimmicks (Sami Zayn comes to mind) and their 50/50 booking is born from this same mentality.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Dec 26, 2018 23:19:16 GMT -5
I don’t think he ever had it. He only understood the zeitgeist of the 1980s and has mostly benefited from luck, other peoples talent, and the poor decisions of his rivals ever since. The Attitude Era only happened because he had a metaphorical gun to his head, and then its runaway success has ultimately let him coast ever since.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Dec 26, 2018 23:23:15 GMT -5
The truth is I am a WCW fan who only watches WWE because of having no real alternative. Vince never had "it" for me. But if you want a specific instance of when it became apparent that Vince's personal ethos was going to be future direction of the WWE I think it was this promo: youtu.be/ipfrAHxJsVsthis leads into Ruthless Aggress which leads into the current era of where anyone who is good at heart will be trampled upon until such time as they betray their personal values to finally get ahead, which is what Vince McMahon believes is just.
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MAGGLE
Dennis Stamp
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Post by MAGGLE on Dec 27, 2018 0:00:48 GMT -5
Another red flag was when Vince was asking for dead people to guest host.
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Post by sportatorium on Dec 27, 2018 0:01:09 GMT -5
Vince has to have competition to show his edge. Otherwise, we get Bince either catering to his whims or his sponsors.
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Post by evilhomer on Dec 27, 2018 0:09:22 GMT -5
I survived Hulk Hogan getting stale beyond belief. I survived the Diesel experiment. Where I lost it was during the John Cena era, not sure when. The fact that I hated Cena pretty much from his debut certainly didn't help matters. But just parading out the same character, having the same matches, cutting the same promos, when everything around (aside from merch sales) is screaming to make a change. I actually gave up on WWE for a couple of years when I couldn't take it anymore but I was drawn back in. It's still the same shit, but at least it's some characters that I don't utterly despise.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 0:26:49 GMT -5
The months after he bought WCW were full of stupid, spiteful decisions (burying DDP, for example), but he did still have enough of a grasp on things to push some of those talented guys (Booker, Hurricane, etc.). I consider 2002 to be the point where he really first lost it, when he screwed up the arrangement with the World Wildlife Fund and then willingly changed the name of his product and officially became "Entertainment." It has been a downhill slide ever since the WWF ceased to be, punctuated by things really falling off a cliff with the Bryan/Lesnar/Reigns stuff. But becoming WWE 16 years ago was the opening of the floodgates. As an "entertainment" mogul with no true competition, he gutted the remaining emphasis on wrestling, slowly stopped caring about pleasing the fans, eventually resented it when they vocalized their displeasure (see: 2014 to present), and has cost himself untold millions of dollars. So... Vince chose to lose it the moment he owned it and never let it go?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 27, 2018 0:49:17 GMT -5
Wrestlemania 9. Right?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 27, 2018 2:24:27 GMT -5
Been going back and watching the last few Royal Rumbles to get ready for 2019 - and I've noticed that from 2014 onwards, the crowd craps all over the finishes, mainly due to the wrong guy winning. It goes back to 2014 for me, when Reigns should've won that match ahead of Batista, then a year later, Reigns wins when the crowd had spent the whole night chanting for Daniel Bryan. Since then Vince has been determined to get his vision across more aggressively than ever. When did you recognise that VKM wasn't really giving a monkeys about what you thought? Except last year when Nakamura dumped Roman to win The Rumble and the fans went apeshit. Vince hasn't really lost it, he just does what he wants and with no competition and guys like Prichard and Patterson no longer around I'm not sure anyone speaks up much against his wishes. I think he lost it to an extent... but not nearly as far as people think I just don't think he gives a shit, and no one is there to tell him otherwise...
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Post by KobashiChop on Dec 27, 2018 2:27:50 GMT -5
Cena’s push in the mid 00s. Dude just wouldn’t listen to his fan base. The company still hasn’t recovered imo. They handled Cena perfectly up until they moved him to Raw in 2005. Then they just kept screwing it. Fans were white hot for Cena at one point.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 6:31:21 GMT -5
I don’t think he ever had it. He only understood the zeitgeist of the 1980s and has mostly benefited from luck, other peoples talent, and the poor decisions of his rivals ever since. The Attitude Era only happened because he had a metaphorical gun to his head, and then its runaway success has ultimately let him coast ever since. Vince’s vision for wrestling has always been the “one superhero vs the baddies”... it’s outdated garbage. Worked for Hogan but that NEVER should he been how they handled Cena or even Reigns.
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Post by "Dashing" Dr.VonPhoenix on Dec 27, 2018 6:40:50 GMT -5
Roman. Vince should have learned from both the Cena backlash and the Rock legacy... he didn't learn jack shit from either and Roman's booking proves it. As soon as I understood that, I was out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 10:10:14 GMT -5
Vince lost it after the Hogan era came to an end.
The NG era shows just how out of touch he was. The only smart things he did in the 90's was copying ECW and the Nitro format and letting the fans choose who would be the stars.
Still, gotta give the bastard credit for how much he's grown the brand despite decades of crappy television.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Dec 27, 2018 10:54:58 GMT -5
Pushing Luger before Bret. Pushing Diesel before Bret. Pushing Michaels before Bret. Hmm, I can't quite put my finger on what the pattern here is.. he pushed Bret before all those guys. and chose Bret over Lex in 94 He pushed Bret before them. However, he also pushed those guys OVER Bret, only to come back to Bret when that didn't work
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 11:08:41 GMT -5
XFL
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Dec 27, 2018 11:14:21 GMT -5
he pushed Bret before all those guys. and chose Bret over Lex in 94 He pushed Bret before them. However, he also pushed those guys OVER Bret, only to come back to Bret when that didn't work fair enough
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 27, 2018 11:20:52 GMT -5
I was too young to be critical of the New Generation nonsense when it was going on, otherwise I'd say that. So for me it's probably the Invasion angle. Fans had dreamed of that for ages, and the whole WWF vs. WCW blood feud ended with Rock vs. a heel Austin who magically became a babyface again one day later.
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