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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 20, 2019 20:06:28 GMT -5
It's tough to compare them given the different eras they came up in. Bret's chief criticism of Flair when they'd work together was that it felt like he always wrestled the same match, but Flair also reigned in the NWA during the era where such an approach made perfect sense. Bret's prime coincided more with higher levels of TV exposure, and Bret responded to that by being more adaptable and trying to tell more varied stories in his matches. Does that make Bret better, or is that more just a product of their respective prime eras?
I'll always pick Bret as my top guy, but it's a tough call given the historical contexts.
Also, whenever a wrestling time machine gets invented I'd love to see circa 1994 Bret challenging circa 1986 Flair, but mainly because I want to see Bret having to get through '86 Arn to get to Ric, first.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 20, 2019 23:26:18 GMT -5
Having seen both in their peak years, I have to say that Flair's skill was perhaps overhyped both by the announce teams at the time and by the perceived power he held as leader of the Four Horsemen. That illusion of invincibility ended for me on October 12, 1992.
Bret was the right man for the job of carrying the torch for WWE at the time, I think. He was one of the absolute best technicians and storytellers in that ring and his mic work, though subdued, felt more three-dimensional. The promo he gave prior to Summerslam 1993, where it appeared that he was choking up talking about what Lawler had done to humiliate Bret's parents, is a masterpiece in my book. Honourable mention goes to the one he gave in the run-up to his match with Razor Ramon at RR, after Ramon had attacked Owen and via Titantron was threatening the same to Stu. Bret felt safe to the crowd, who was sure of his ability to take on all comers, even up to his encounter with Yokozuna. Fans believed in Bret.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 23:54:40 GMT -5
This is an incredibly tough choice, but I think if I was a wrestling promoter wanting to sell tickets, I'd hire Flair before Bret.
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auph10imitated
Dennis Stamp
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Post by auph10imitated on Jan 21, 2019 7:24:04 GMT -5
Bret was the better worker, Flair was the better entertainer.
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Post by Ryushinku on Jan 21, 2019 7:55:00 GMT -5
Specific to wrestler, Bret.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 8:20:33 GMT -5
Flair reminds me a lot of Ziggler insanely talented and amazing matches but watch one match and you've seen them all. Bret, well look at his feuds from Piper to Yoko to Owen to Taker to HBK to Austin and all the shorter ones in between he told a different story each time. Flair was better on the mic but had the advantage of heeling it for most of his career, once Bret was given the anti American character he made a jolly good account of himself on the mic.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 21, 2019 8:35:50 GMT -5
Aren’t we lucky we got to watch these 2? I mean, if you want to know how it’s done...
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jan 21, 2019 8:37:58 GMT -5
Bret for me, great in the ring, great tag team years and some very memorable moments.
Flair by numbers is my issue with Ric Flair. For all his great promo work and story telling I find his matches are always the same. That and his 'iconic' moves don't make a lot of sense. The going up top get thrown off spot, the stumble and fall over routine and his irish whip corner flip clothesline stuff all seem super cartoony.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 21, 2019 11:32:20 GMT -5
Bret to me is the best in-ring wrestler of all time. Everything he did made sense, looked real, and he would change up his game for each opponent. Flair on the other hand was paint by numbers every match. My buddy used to say "I've seen the Ric Flair match" and that pretty much sums it up.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 21, 2019 18:09:02 GMT -5
In the ring? As in doing wrestling moves?
Hart.
Ric doesn't even do any f***ing moves. What does he actually have? Chops, punches, that knee drop, the Figure Four that he never f***ing wins with.
Hart may be more of a five moves of doom wrestler, but he at least has five.
If we're taking it about who was better overall, I don't much care for Flair as an interview but he shits all over Hart. He also has a better character, because Hart's character is 'wrestler.' And weirdly, I like more of Flair's matches. Then throw in critical acclaim, respect in the industry, longevity, peaks of career...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 18:21:18 GMT -5
I was surprised by the results at first, but I assume most FAN users grew up during Bret's rise and prime. I did but I didn't, I was born in 1991 so from 1994-97 I was extremely young but I do still remember watching him and being a little Hitman mark. I also have (very vague) memories of Flair in WCW at the time, but we were a WWF household. My first real exposure to Flair was during his early WWE 2000s run and I just wasn't really into him for whatever reasons. I'll give the edge to Ric for promo and character work from the stuff I've seen, but I'd much rather go back and watch Bret. And I know this is irrelevant since it's about who you like more as a performer, outside the ring I like Bret in a "cranky but lovable uncle" way and think Flair's a creep.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 21, 2019 22:38:11 GMT -5
I'm actually shocked at this. Flair was bigger and better in absolutely every single way. He carried a promotion for a decade and became a larger than life character outside the industry even to this day.
He's a better worker, FAR FAR FAR better on the mic, tons more charisma and a universal success.
Bret Hart is a phenominal wrestler, even against inferior competition. Embarassing on the mic, and once he left the WWF it became a great promotion WITHOUT him.
This is a joke.
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Post by jivesoulbrah on Jan 22, 2019 0:00:27 GMT -5
Promos? Flair hands down no competition In-ring? Hart hands down no competition
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 22, 2019 0:57:53 GMT -5
Pretty much impossible for me to subjectively rank one over the other.
I realize wishy-washy.
I’ll show myself out. They are both among the greatest of all time.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jan 22, 2019 4:13:22 GMT -5
I am a far bigger Bret fan than I am a Flair fan, but even I find the poll results to be shocking.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
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Brawl For All
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jan 22, 2019 7:48:55 GMT -5
Bret in ring, Flair everywhere else and overall. I have to agree. With the possible exception of Randy Savage, I think Bret Hart is the greatest in ring performer of all time. But Flair is on that short list of greatest workers too and his personality is out of this world. His promos alone made you want to tune in. He could he anywhere from funny to intensely serious as both a heel and a babyface. He’s fantastic. I’ll say this, both guys are among my absolute favorites in history.
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Post by brown bricks on Jan 22, 2019 10:48:03 GMT -5
Ric Flair was a better character. Bret Hart was a better wrestler.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Jan 22, 2019 12:07:54 GMT -5
Having seen both in their peak years, I have to say that Flair's skill was perhaps overhyped both by the announce teams at the time and by the perceived power he held as leader of the Four Horsemen. That illusion of invincibility ended for me on October 12, 1992. Bret was the right man for the job of carrying the torch for WWE at the time, I think. He was one of the absolute best technicians and storytellers in that ring and his mic work, though subdued, felt more three-dimensional. The promo he gave prior to Summerslam 1993, where it appeared that he was choking up talking about what Lawler had done to humiliate Bret's parents, is a masterpiece in my book. Honourable mention goes to the one he gave in the run-up to his match with Razor Ramon at RR, after Ramon had attacked Owen and via Titantron was threatening the same to Stu. Bret felt safe to the crowd, who was sure of his ability to take on all comers, even up to his encounter with Yokozuna. Fans believed in Bret. I like how you can tell the real fans, they actually pinpoint and quote decent Bret Hart promos, whereas others say "stones were so cold" and mention the wheelchair promo, and use those to justify their thinking that Bret could not talk on the mic and needed a mouthpiece or something. Bret Hart is a phenominal wrestler, even against inferior competition. Embarassing on the mic, and once he left the WWF it became a great promotion WITHOUT him. This is a joke. Case in point
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Jan 22, 2019 12:26:12 GMT -5
For me, this comparison is almost apples and oranges. If I had a time machine to build my ultimate pro-wrestling roster, Bret Hart would be my go to wrestler for #1 babyface, and Flair would be my pick for #1 heel.
Flair was the greatest at playing an arrogant jerk. I think you can have a less than charismatic good guy if you have a bad guy that people love to hate. His character made up for lack of variety in his matches.
Bret Hart didn't need great mic skills. He could back it up in the ring. That's why he's my favorite "top guy" in WWF history. I think if you pair him up with a charismatic heel, the two performers would be able to make up for whatever weakness the other has.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 22, 2019 15:37:12 GMT -5
I like how you can tell the real fans, they actually pinpoint and quote decent Bret Hart promos I didn't think this forum was a 'this is what a real fan is' kind of place. I can't stand most of Flair's promos and am kinda baffled that a guy with some of the worst enunciation I've ever heard is considered one of wrestling's great promos guys. Bret has some promos I've liked, but even just in size of body of work there Flair is streets ahead. I also like John Cena, I liked Hogan before he turned out to be a racist... and I am as real a fan of wrestling as anyone here, as are you. Fandom is not a point scoring contest.
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