ROH "17th Anniversary" PPV & TV taping (3/15-3/16)

[peterh1990]

Taven is rock solid and everything, but does not strike me as The Guy, and it's not even like they have a guy ready to be the man who can dethrone him. I mean, they do, but not without rushing it, and that has NEVER been the way ROH does things.

Then again, as much as I don't think Taven is it, I don't think much of Lethal either. He's a workhorse and a steady hand but I don't see anything special about him. I have been more annoyed by some of his matches than I have been entertained.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Being afraid of people leaving and only putting your titles on the lifers who WWE doesn't seem to have any interest in trying to poach is not going to put ROH into a good position at all. If the belt only ever goes to people who are solid but unspectacular, past their golden days, or so riddled with issues that no other company will touch them, you create a situation wherein you're really limiting yourself. The indies are changing and ROH has done a frankly abysmal job of adapting to that scene, clamming up and spending more time too afraid of losign people to push them. Marty is one of the biggest stars they have and for the moment he's with the company. Use that. Push him, instead of keeping him on ice this whole time. Showing that they're snakebit after the rest of the Elite leaving isn't going to help them. Every contractr is temporary, unless he seems like he's going to flake and bail on it midway through the reign the idea he'll leave eventually doesn't hold any water.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2019 18:13:19 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Being afraid of people leaving and only putting your titles on the lifers who WWE doesn't seem to have any interest in trying to poach is not going to put ROH into a good position at all. If the belt only ever goes to people who are solid but unspectacular, past their golden days, or so riddled with issues that no other company will touch them, you create a situation wherein you're really limiting yourself. The indies are changing and ROH has done a frankly abysmal job of adapting to that scene, clamming up and spending more time too afraid of losign people to push them. Marty is one of the biggest stars they have and for the moment he's with the company. Use that. Push him, instead of keeping him on ice this whole time. Showing that they're snakebit after the rest of the Elite leaving isn't going to help them. Every contractr is temporary, unless he seems like he's going to flake and bail on it midway through the reign the idea he'll leave eventually doesn't hold any water.

And the weird thing is the whole policy is pretty self-fulfilling. You have to imagine at least some of the people who've left ROH over the years have been in part motivated by how the company refuses to let anybody have any momentum.

[Deputy Muscle]

Feb 16, 2019 21:03:44 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Feb 16, 2019 18:13:19 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Being afraid of people leaving and only putting your titles on the lifers who WWE doesn't seem to have any interest in trying to poach is not going to put ROH into a good position at all. If the belt only ever goes to people who are solid but unspectacular, past their golden days, or so riddled with issues that no other company will touch them, you create a situation wherein you're really limiting yourself. The indies are changing and ROH has done a frankly abysmal job of adapting to that scene, clamming up and spending more time too afraid of losign people to push them. Marty is one of the biggest stars they have and for the moment he's with the company. Use that. Push him, instead of keeping him on ice this whole time. Showing that they're snakebit after the rest of the Elite leaving isn't going to help them. Every contractr is temporary, unless he seems like he's going to flake and bail on it midway through the reign the idea he'll leave eventually doesn't hold any water.

And the weird thing is the whole policy is pretty self-fulfilling. You have to imagine at least some of the people who've left ROH over the years have been in part motivated by how the company refuses to let anybody have any momentum.

Exactly, what's the worst thing that could happen if they went with Marty as their main man?
He's not going to leave mid-contract as he'd have done it by now to stay with his mates.
At worst you get a few months of him on top and it doesn't move the needle. But the potential upside is surely worth it.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Feb 16, 2019 21:03:44 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Feb 16, 2019 18:13:19 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Being afraid of people leaving and only putting your titles on the lifers who WWE doesn't seem to have any interest in trying to poach is not going to put ROH into a good position at all. If the belt only ever goes to people who are solid but unspectacular, past their golden days, or so riddled with issues that no other company will touch them, you create a situation wherein you're really limiting yourself. The indies are changing and ROH has done a frankly abysmal job of adapting to that scene, clamming up and spending more time too afraid of losign people to push them. Marty is one of the biggest stars they have and for the moment he's with the company. Use that. Push him, instead of keeping him on ice this whole time. Showing that they're snakebit after the rest of the Elite leaving isn't going to help them. Every contractr is temporary, unless he seems like he's going to flake and bail on it midway through the reign the idea he'll leave eventually doesn't hold any water.

And the weird thing is the whole policy is pretty self-fulfilling. You have to imagine at least some of the people who've left ROH over the years have been in part motivated by how the company refuses to let anybody have any momentum.

Remember when Dalton Castle was the most over face in the company by a country mile, but then they did nothing of substance with him for the longest time, and by the time they pulled the trigger, he had already lost his "most over" status to The Elite and his body already was feeling the effects of all the shit he did in the shadows, when he could have at least ran his body into the ground as a deserving champion?

They have no else but Lethal, because they made no effort to have another guy on Jay Lethal's level, and once the Elite gravy train left the station, they had nothing. That's just so sad.

[peterh1990]

I always thought Dalton Castle was a poor man's Ashley Reamington.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 4:36:54 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

Feb 16, 2019 21:03:44 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

And the weird thing is the whole policy is pretty self-fulfilling. You have to imagine at least some of the people who've left ROH over the years have been in part motivated by how the company refuses to let anybody have any momentum.

Remember when Dalton Castle was the most over face in the company by a country mile, but then they did nothing of substance with him for the longest time, and by the time they pulled the trigger, he had already lost his "most over" status to The Elite and his body already was feeling the effects of all the shit he did in the shadows, when he could have at least ran his body into the ground as a deserving champion?

They have no else but Lethal, because they made no effort to have another guy on Jay Lethal's level, and once the Elite gravy train left the station, they had nothing. That's just so sad.

Castle’s title reign reminded me of Ron Simmon’s run with the belt. He’s the champion but there are bigger feuds in the company. Sting/Jake, Nikita/Rude, and even the tag division felt more important. I think Gresham could do well as a champion, but the options are rather limited at this point.

[Wieners=$$$]

What is Bully Ray's status? Why hasn't he just started kicking the crap out of Lethal, and demanding a title shot? He is easily ROH's best heel, and had, as far as I can remember, the ONLY real feud in the company in the past year. He would be a heat-magnet to get Lethal and the title over. Is he injured, left, or is this more bad booking?

[peterh1990]

See, he is a name, an absolute monster heel and an experienced hand who can still go to a degree. He should be used more, not shoved down the throats of us by any means, but they should be taking advantage of having someone so good on their roster. Instead, he's been running around beating up jobbers and schmucks for months on end.

[Error]

Feb 17, 2019 16:53:19 GMT -5 Wieners=$$$ said:

What is Bully Ray's status? Why hasn't he just started kicking the crap out of Lethal, and demanding a title shot? He is easily ROH's best heel, and had, as far as I can remember, the ONLY real feud in the company in the past year. He would be a heat-magnet to get Lethal and the title over. Is he injured, left, or is this more bad booking?

Not sure why they haven't had him go after Lethal or the title. He may not be signed to ROH, just on a pay per appearance thing.

Right now he's leading a group with Silas and the Briscoes that seem destined to feud with Lifeblood.

[kingoftheindies]

Feb 17, 2019 17:18:38 GMT -5 Error said:

Feb 17, 2019 16:53:19 GMT -5 Wieners=$$$ said:

What is Bully Ray's status? Why hasn't he just started kicking the crap out of Lethal, and demanding a title shot? He is easily ROH's best heel, and had, as far as I can remember, the ONLY real feud in the company in the past year. He would be a heat-magnet to get Lethal and the title over. Is he injured, left, or is this more bad booking?

Not sure why they haven't had him go after Lethal or the title. He may not be signed to ROH, just on a pay per appearance thing.

Right now he's leading a group with Silas and the Briscoes that seem destined to feud with Lifeblood.

Speaking of Silas why didnt they build him up more to be a contender? I thought when he won the tv title it was a good decision but now he seems to just be there.... which seems to be a big issue with ROH

[Wieners=$$$]

Feb 17, 2019 17:03:22 GMT -5 peterh1990 said:

See, he is a name, an absolute monster heel and an experienced hand who can still go to a degree. He should be used more, not shoved down the throats of us by any means, but they should be taking advantage of having someone so good on their roster. Instead, he's been running around beating up jobbers and schmucks for months on end.

His last year with the company was spent running down ROH and it's talent, and now all of that heat he built-up is cooling. I am baffled at how he has sides with 3 other top heels, to, instead of going after the World Title, opt to fight with Lifeblood? All the while, Lethal and the belt, is further buried by Taven and this "real" world champion story-arc. This is not a knock on Taven, but this has been a poor build to a main event run for him and Lethal.

[Deputy Muscle]

A company cannot have Bully Ray as their top guy in 2019 if they want to be taken seriously.
Use him sparingly to give guys a rub but don't make him your top guy. It makes the rest of the roster look bad.
To be honest I think ROH already make Bully Ray look too strong and too protected. All he does is make their new, young guys look like a bunch if dorks.

[corndog]

I have to agree with the sentiment in this thread. ROH needs to stop playing it safe and go with the talent that is over at the top. They missed the mark on Dalton Castle and even Silas Young, despite that Silas is a fairly safe bet too. One of the things they have done right is putting the TV title on Cobb so soon and hopefully he gets a World Title run in the near future.

As far as Marty goes, it should have already happened and sadly I bet they don't pull the trigger at MSG, even though they should. Most likely they know he is going to AEW, but at this point they are pretty much pushing him out of the door. New Japan has even made him take a back seat, but at least with them, they recently got burned by pushing the rest of the Elite so hard going into Wrestle Kingdom.

I also don't think they should push Bully Ray to the top, in 2019 it just doesn't feel right and would make them feel 2nd class. Then again, having the Briscoes and Jay Lethal as top stars feels the same as well. Matt Taven just feels too much like playing it safe. They need to focus on building and pushing their new talent in Bandido, Rush, Mark Haskins, Brody King and Tracey Williams.

[kingoftheindies]

Feb 18, 2019 13:36:10 GMT -5 corndog said:

I have to agree with the sentiment in this thread. ROH needs to stop playing it safe and go with the talent that is over at the top. They missed the mark on Dalton Castle and even Silas Young, despite that Silas is a fairly safe bet too. One of the things they have done right is putting the TV title on Cobb so soon and hopefully he gets a World Title run in the near future.

As far as Marty goes, it should have already happened and sadly I bet they don't pull the trigger at MSG, even though they should. Most likely they know he is going to AEW, but at this point they are pretty much pushing him out of the door. New Japan has even made him take a back seat, but at least with them, they recently got burned by pushing the rest of the Elite so hard going into Wrestle Kingdom.

I also don't think they should push Bully Ray to the top, in 2019 it just doesn't feel right and would make them feel 2nd class. Then again, having the Briscoes and Jay Lethal as top stars feels the same as well. Matt Taven just feels too much like playing it safe. They need to focus on building and pushing their new talent in Bandido, Rush, Mark Haskins, Brody King and Tracey Williams.

The thing is, Delirious has not shown the ability to realy build new talent, and if he can't really build guys like Cobb, Haskins, Rush, Bandido, King, and Williams up IMO it's TNA level of incompetence... and I'm not talking having great matches. I'm talking actually building them up to mean something.

[chrom]

Mayu Iwatani makes her first defense of the WOH Championship this Sunday against Konami in Osaka

[Deleted]

Feb 18, 2019 20:27:12 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Feb 18, 2019 13:36:10 GMT -5 corndog said:

I have to agree with the sentiment in this thread. ROH needs to stop playing it safe and go with the talent that is over at the top. They missed the mark on Dalton Castle and even Silas Young, despite that Silas is a fairly safe bet too. One of the things they have done right is putting the TV title on Cobb so soon and hopefully he gets a World Title run in the near future.

As far as Marty goes, it should have already happened and sadly I bet they don't pull the trigger at MSG, even though they should. Most likely they know he is going to AEW, but at this point they are pretty much pushing him out of the door. New Japan has even made him take a back seat, but at least with them, they recently got burned by pushing the rest of the Elite so hard going into Wrestle Kingdom.

I also don't think they should push Bully Ray to the top, in 2019 it just doesn't feel right and would make them feel 2nd class. Then again, having the Briscoes and Jay Lethal as top stars feels the same as well. Matt Taven just feels too much like playing it safe. They need to focus on building and pushing their new talent in Bandido, Rush, Mark Haskins, Brody King and Tracey Williams.

The thing is, Delirious has not shown the ability to realy build new talent, and if he can't really build guys like Cobb, Haskins, Rush, Bandido, King, and Williams up IMO it's TNA level of incompetence... and I'm not talking having great matches. I'm talking actually building them up to mean something.

Seriously, I'd just get his ass out and find someone else, because ROH has been stuck in second gear for God knows how long?

"Cool, Jay Lethal has been World Champion for two years!" Except, it's because ROH is too scared to put the belt on anyone else, knowing that ROH is the highest Jay Lethal is going to be at this point in his career.

"Cool, the Briscoes are tag champs again!" Except, it's because the Briscoes are racist and homophobic assholes, and nobody else wants to book them.

"Cool, ROH is going to be working Madison Square Garden with New Japan!" Except, this was largely due to New Japan's massive popularity, and ROH is going to curtain-jerk the show with New Japan getting the biggest pops.

A guy like Delirious may be cool with getting table scraps, and Sinclair may be fine with ROH just idling by, but with the formation of AEW, the fans of ROH who wanted ROH to reach that point as a solid #2 are going to leave, and 5 years from now, ROH may be in the exact same spot Impact Wrestling is in, where they're streaming on Twitch... and still pushing Jay Lethal as World Champion and the Briscoes as tag champs.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 17:23:09 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Feb 17, 2019 17:18:38 GMT -5 Error said:

Not sure why they haven't had him go after Lethal or the title. He may not be signed to ROH, just on a pay per appearance thing.

Right now he's leading a group with Silas and the Briscoes that seem destined to feud with Lifeblood.

Speaking of Silas why didnt they build him up more to be a contender? I thought when he won the tv title it was a good decision but now he seems to just be there.... which seems to be a big issue with ROH

It's because ROH's philosophy works like this; everybody who watches the TV shows, either online or on the Sinclair-owned networks, is a freeloader or a cheapskate or an ungrateful bastard, and doesn't deserve anything nice. Unlike the TNA model, where everyone that matters appears multiple times during a taping as story dictates, everyone that matters only appears once because they're a "special attraction", and most of the tapings are filler featuring individuals who aren't doing anything of note in the company. Sure, the TV show occasionally will promote storylines for their upcoming PPVs, but there's rarely any physical confrontation between the parties involved, and it's limited to the commentary crew repeating the same talking points.

This is ironic, because when ROH does do their PPVs, they expect people to want to follow the company after those shows to see the fallout, but considering how poorly the TV tapings are designed, it's almost like the format is, "Here's a PPV, PPV's over, wait for the next PPV to find out who Jay Lethal's next opponent is".

[corndog]

Feb 21, 2019 11:11:10 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Feb 18, 2019 20:27:12 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

The thing is, Delirious has not shown the ability to realy build new talent, and if he can't really build guys like Cobb, Haskins, Rush, Bandido, King, and Williams up IMO it's TNA level of incompetence... and I'm not talking having great matches. I'm talking actually building them up to mean something.

Seriously, I'd just get his ass out and find someone else, because ROH has been stuck in second gear for God knows how long?

"Cool, Jay Lethal has been World Champion for two years!" Except, it's because ROH is too scared to put the belt on anyone else, knowing that ROH is the highest Jay Lethal is going to be at this point in his career.

"Cool, the Briscoes are tag champs again!" Except, it's because the Briscoes are racist and homophobic assholes, and nobody else wants to book them.

"Cool, ROH is going to be working Madison Square Garden with New Japan!" Except, this was largely due to New Japan's massive popularity, and ROH is going to curtain-jerk the show with New Japan getting the biggest pops.

A guy like Delirious may be cool with getting table scraps, and Sinclair may be fine with ROH just idling by, but with the formation of AEW, the fans of ROH who wanted ROH to reach that point as a solid #2 are going to leave, and 5 years from now, ROH may be in the exact same spot Impact Wrestling is in, where they're streaming on Twitch... and still pushing Jay Lethal as World Champion and the Briscoes as tag champs.

I think the difference between Impact and ROH is complete incompetence vs laziness. ROH just refuses to stop playing it safe. It's true their talent has been stripmined many times over, primarily by WWE, but it also gave ROH the reputation of always having the next big thing and actually brought in interest.

I agree though, it is really looking like Delirious either needs to step up or walk away. ROH actually did a nice job of signing some top talent after the Elite left, but it will all be for nothing if they don't push them and stick with the Briscoes, Lethal and the Kingdom.

[chrom]

Sumie Sakai will also be at the Stardom shows Sunday along with Iwatani