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Post by Joe Neglia on Feb 10, 2019 22:24:42 GMT -5
The stereotypical gay has been a common trope in wrestling for years. In recent times, we have Velveteen Dream. Have they stated or even implied he was gay? I figured it was him just evolving the Prince gimmick, with the camp and sensuality that comes part and parcel with that. No, but then, Adrian Street never claimed to be gay, either. Most of them doing this sort of gimmick back then did not. Implied, not stated. Gimmicks like his and Velveteen's are whatever you make of them, and most of the time, we'll see them completely different based on how our views on things are.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 11, 2019 1:34:58 GMT -5
Have they stated or even implied he was gay? I figured it was him just evolving the Prince gimmick, with the camp and sensuality that comes part and parcel with that. No, but then, Adrian Street never claimed to be gay, either. Most of them doing this sort of gimmick back then did not. Implied, not stated. Gimmicks like his and Velveteen's are whatever you make of them, and most of the time, we'll see them completely different based on how our views on things are. I don’t think Adrian Street left much to the imagination lol. Cornette said that when he started he managed Adrian and Miss Linda, well they working with Terry Taylor and Adrian did a spot in which he kissed Terry to get heat. Later in the match Adrian tried to do the same spot but Terry turned things around and kissed Miss Linda, Adrian then got mad and started putting the boots to her...
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Post by arrogantmodel on Feb 11, 2019 2:19:39 GMT -5
Oh man, in high school, me and my buddies would go to the local wrestling shows. There was a tag team who wore pink and purple, had feathered boas, pranced around, and blew kisses to each other. And they were managed by a guy who looked like Rockstar Spud. God damn, did they get the business from the crowd. And we're not some backwoods hick town, but they were showered with "Faggot!" chants. And what's worse, I guess, is that they played up to it. I don't know, it's very cringey now, but that was an easy heat getter back in '99-2000. It's pretty shitty if a wrestler is like, "Hmmm, how can I get people to hate me? I know, I'll act gay." Same as the guy from Pittsburgh who wrestled down in Mexico. How did he get the crowd to boo him? He played a super Trump supporter. I saw this on the ABC World News. Dude was like, "I don't like politics, but it works." I think it's pretty careless to use real life issues. Some crazed fan may not get that it's acting. You talking about Sam Adonis? Yep. Corey Graves' younger brother.
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Feb 11, 2019 6:25:41 GMT -5
Looking back at Adorable Adrian Adonis. It's crazy in today's day and age what an offensive one dimensional stereotype it was. I guess he was supposed to be the typical fans vision of what it was to be gay at the time. Strutting around the ring effeminately. Limp wrists. Cross dressing. Makeup. He was an effective heel but I didn't get the whole presentation. Dressed like an overweight church lady. Cheap birthday present bows. One eye with giant eyeshadow. Gay? Transgender? Both? Automatically hated like foreigners were hated at the time? Who liked this character? I'm not trying to cause trouble, just asking a serious question. It's offensive when a straight man plays a homosexual character like Adonis did, but when an actual homosexual like Sonny Kiss wears makeup, walks effeminately, limp wrists, etc......... it's ok? I mean, not all homosexual males walk around looking like that. Again, not trying to piss anyone off.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 11, 2019 6:43:11 GMT -5
Looking back at Adorable Adrian Adonis. It's crazy in today's day and age what an offensive one dimensional stereotype it was. I guess he was supposed to be the typical fans vision of what it was to be gay at the time. Strutting around the ring effeminately. Limp wrists. Cross dressing. Makeup. He was an effective heel but I didn't get the whole presentation. Dressed like an overweight church lady. Cheap birthday present bows. One eye with giant eyeshadow. Gay? Transgender? Both? Automatically hated like foreigners were hated at the time? Who liked this character? I'm not trying to cause trouble, just asking a serious question. It's offensive when a straight man plays a homosexual character like Adonis did, but when an actual homosexual like Sonny Kiss wears makeup, walks effeminately, limp wrists, etc......... it's ok? I mean, not all homosexual males walk around looking like that. Again, not trying to piss anyone off. I mean, yeah, the fact that Kiss himself is actually LGBT means he can approach it from an entirely different angle with an entirely different perspective. It's not a "blackface situation" in that case, which is inherently uncomfortable when you're talking about a medium like wrestling where people are expected to live the gimmick so much and use it for simplistic crowd reactions ("cheer this guy, boo that guy"), since the person using the gimmick has direct lived experience and a personal identity to draw from. Now, does that mean it's 100% ok? Maybe not; I'll bet there are LGBT people who wish that type of character wasn't around, but I know of some who do appreciate it, especially given Sonny's real life sexual identification. But either way, it'd be a situation where I'd defer to members of the LGBT community and how they feel about it.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Feb 11, 2019 7:27:48 GMT -5
And then there's Orlando Jordan. 😕
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Feb 11, 2019 9:11:04 GMT -5
The stereotypical gay has been a common trope in wrestling for years. In recent times, we have Velveteen Dream. Have they stated or even implied he was gay? I figured it was him just evolving the Prince gimmick, with the camp and sensuality that comes part and parcel with that. IMO, is there any thing really “sexual” about Velveteen’s character? I always saw him as a good wrestler with a flamboyant style, nothing too out of the ordinary from Randy Savage or Ric Flair or Superstar Graham.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 11, 2019 9:35:28 GMT -5
Effeminate gimmicks only work if the guy is a badass worker like Adonis or Dalton Castle, anything else and it kills your career, see Damien Sandow.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Feb 11, 2019 20:00:38 GMT -5
I think it was a rehash of earlier gimmicks, the most famous of which was Gorgeous George from the 1950s.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Feb 12, 2019 8:32:42 GMT -5
The Real Question: What the hell was in Trudy?
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Feb 12, 2019 8:58:13 GMT -5
I'm gay, not the least bit stereotypical and I f***ing love Adrian Adonis.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 9:38:02 GMT -5
Like it or not, guys like Adonis actually exist in real life lol.
Me seeing Adrian Adonis isn’t gonna make me think “Every gay guy is like this!”
I don’t really believe in stereotypes. Every character is based off SOMETHING and like it or not, most of the stuff they’re based on has been a thing in real life at one point or another.
It’s only a stereotype if you make it one.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 12, 2019 15:37:06 GMT -5
Like it or not, guys like Adonis actually exist in real life lol. Me seeing Adrian Adonis isn’t gonna make me think “Every gay guy is like this!” I don’t really believe in stereotypes. Every character is based off SOMETHING and like it or not, most of the stuff they’re based on has been a thing in real life at one point or another. It’s only a stereotype if you make it one. It'd be nice if more people approached depictions that way, but sad truth is they don't, especially not during the 80s when there weren't many positive depictions of gay men in popular media.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Feb 12, 2019 15:51:03 GMT -5
I mean outside of his over the top flamboyance part of the comedy of the angle was he was this huge 400 guy prancing around in pink underwear
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 13, 2019 18:44:47 GMT -5
Oh man, in high school, me and my buddies would go to the local wrestling shows. There was a tag team who wore pink and purple, had feathered boas, pranced around, and blew kisses to each other. And they were managed by a guy who looked like Rockstar Spud. God damn, did they get the business from the crowd. And we're not some backwoods hick town, but they were showered with "Faggot!" chants. And what's worse, I guess, is that they played up to it. I don't know, it's very cringey now, but that was an easy heat getter back in '99-2000. It's pretty shitty if a wrestler is like, "Hmmm, how can I get people to hate me? I know, I'll act gay." Same as the guy from Pittsburgh who wrestled down in Mexico. How did he get the crowd to boo him? He played a super Trump supporter. I saw this on the ABC World News. Dude was like, "I don't like politics, but it works." I think it's pretty careless to use real life issues. Some crazed fan may not get that it's acting. These things don't need to reach crazy fans to be damaging, either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 9:10:57 GMT -5
Velveteen Dream is certainly flamboyant but I've never at all read it as a gay gimmick. Bisexual maybe just because there've both been times he's had women hanging off of him and you could potentially read him as being into Aleister Black during their feud if you really wanted to, although really even that I feel like is a bit of a reach. The gimmick to me comes off much more about him being the kind of flashy but creepy weirdo who's doing drugs in the back rooms of seedy inner city bars at 3 AM than having anything to do with his sexuality.
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 15, 2019 7:10:40 GMT -5
On a sort-of related note:
I know that they've joked about it occasionally themselves, but do you think the New Age Outlaws were intended to come across quite as homoerotic as they did?
On one hand, maybe it was just kind of a byproduct of the sexual humor. X-Pac's bronco buster wasn't meant to imply he was wanting his opponent to go down on him, after all.
On the other, D-X in general did sometimes play into the "degenerate" part of the name, with the infamous "bi lingual" joke, and playing that against the traditionalist Bret and stuffy Corporation. I can buy that they were leaning into it at times.
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Post by Squirrel Master on Feb 15, 2019 18:54:32 GMT -5
On a sort-of related note: I know that they've joked about it occasionally themselves, but do you think the New Age Outlaws were intended to come across quite as homoerotic as they did? On one hand, maybe it was just kind of a byproduct of the sexual humor. X-Pac's bronco buster wasn't meant to imply he was wanting his opponent to go down on him, after all. On the other, D-X in general did sometimes play into the "degenerate" part of the name, with the infamous "bi lingual" joke, and playing that against the traditionalist Bret and stuffy Corporation. I can buy that they were leaning into it at times. And was all corny.
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