Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
It's Just a Ride
Posts: 42,477
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 3, 2019 19:03:43 GMT -5
That they're called writers sounds like semantics more than anything. As has been pointed out, actual writing experience is some way down the list of criteria when hiring. It's more like an Assistant Producer gig (or least, that's what it'd be called in the UK) - a bit of writing, a bit of producing and a bit of whatever the f*** they ask for. Really, on the basis of what Kaz says it doesn't sound much different than how a lot of TV shows are made. It is drastically, enormously different from how most TV shows are made. I've worked in writers' rooms; people don't then get called out to direct certain scenes of the show. Writers often have a 'producer' credit, but that's more for money reasons than anything else. Usually writers end up getting the final say in how something works out and can help with an actor who wants something changed or who wants to ad-lib, but acting as a director? No. That’s why the Simpsons have like 12 producers per show. It’s a title and they’re really just writers. It’s a credit in lieu of other things. |
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Post by Brian Suntan on Mar 3, 2019 19:09:36 GMT -5
That they're called writers sounds like semantics more than anything. As has been pointed out, actual writing experience is some way down the list of criteria when hiring. It's more like an Assistant Producer gig (or least, that's what it'd be called in the UK) - a bit of writing, a bit of producing and a bit of whatever the f*** they ask for. Really, on the basis of what Kaz says it doesn't sound much different than how a lot of TV shows are made. It is drastically, enormously different from how most TV shows are made. I've worked in writers' rooms; people don't then get called out to direct certain scenes of the show. Writers often have a 'producer' credit, but that's more for money reasons than anything else. Usually writers end up getting the final say in how something works out and can help with an actor who wants something changed or who wants to ad-lib, but acting as a director? No. Like I said, how certain roles are defined varies across all of TV. That someone could do everything Kaz lists as being part of his job is absolutely not out of the ordinary, regardless of what you call that role. They're not traditional writers and that's why people like Kaz get hired. |
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,602
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Mar 3, 2019 19:20:57 GMT -5
When I first saw the name "Kaz", I was wondering when Frankie Kazarian got a job writing for the WWE. Honestly, I am surprised that the WWE never tried to bring Kazarian back in some capacity. |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 3, 2019 19:24:46 GMT -5
It is drastically, enormously different from how most TV shows are made. I've worked in writers' rooms; people don't then get called out to direct certain scenes of the show. Writers often have a 'producer' credit, but that's more for money reasons than anything else. Usually writers end up getting the final say in how something works out and can help with an actor who wants something changed or who wants to ad-lib, but acting as a director? No. Like I said, how certain roles are defined varies across all of TV. That someone could do everything Kaz lists as being part of his job is absolutely not out of the ordinary, regardless of what you call that role. They're not traditional writers and that's why people like Kaz get hired. I'm not criticizing it just because it's unusual; I'm criticizing it because it's a mess and because it's a system that is obviously going to result in shitty writing. |
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 31,814 
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Post by lionheart21 on Mar 3, 2019 20:20:33 GMT -5
My first thought after seeing the title:
"This is the worst job I've ever been in."
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Mar 3, 2019 21:41:26 GMT -5
Kaz is someone’s real name?
I thought this was about Kaz Hayashi or Frankie Kazarian
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 21:47:09 GMT -5
So why did he get fired?
Sounds to me like the product was better when this guy was writing for them.
Take Lio and Lashley for example. He had them entertaining, and now they’re just “generic heels with no personality”... I don’t see why they would remove small things like “WHEN YOU LOOK LIKE MONEY.... WHEN YOU SMELL LIKE MONEY”... that seems like removing something potentially catchy for the sake of it not catching on and getting over.
This explains why Lashley and Rush are so devoid of any personality now. The guy who was writing them in the beginning is gone!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 21:54:45 GMT -5
So why did he get fired? Sounds to me like the product was better when this guy was writing for them. Take Lio and Lashley for example. He had them entertaining, and now they’re just “generic heels with no personality”... I don’t see why they would remove small things like “WHEN YOU LOOK LIKE MONEY.... WHEN YOU SMELL LIKE MONEY”... that seems like removing something potentially catchy for the sake of it not catching on and getting over. This explains why Lashley and Rush are so devoid of any personality now. The guy who was writing them in the beginning is gone! House keeping. Kaz said that the WWE wants you to put 100% of yourself into the company. Kaz has a popular podcast, he's part of Dussepalooza, has 2 other jobs too so he's got other things on his table. Given that the company didn't really "need him" he was let go due to house keeping rather than him being let go for anything he did. He did say writers are the first to go. Given he was let go at the beginning of February the writers were the first in the "new wave" given we've got new people on the team and given the wrestlers were let go weeks later. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 22:07:04 GMT -5
Vince said "well goddamn he's the hypeman then."
I love this goofy old man so much lmao
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,557
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Post by Dub H on Mar 3, 2019 22:29:20 GMT -5
I honestly dont care much about the it's hard excuse. Unless the writer argues the system itself needs to be changed ,into he end the writing is still shitty.
So you either got to change everything about how things are written and made or get better writers. Personslly I think is 80% the former and 20% the later
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 4, 2019 11:33:12 GMT -5
I think there's a couple of key problems not being addressed in all of this.
First off, let's acknowledge the unique challenges WWE does face as a wrestling company and TV show: they have large scale sponsors, they're on a tightly run network (not one that'll just tell them "put on whatever you want, as long as it's cheap for us"), they have public shareholders to appease, tons of moving parts given the company's sheer size, etc. etc. Not going to doubt for a moment that WWE is a distinct situation when compared with almost every other promotion out there, so I sympathize with the difficulty involved...and that's not even acknowledging coming into work one day after writing a whole script and hearing "Vince/Paul hated it, so everything got scrapped, start again."
However, look at how certain things were being talked about in that interview. Know what was missing? Whether or not stories, characters, "moments", and angles ended up generating fan interest in the form of increased ticket sales, TV ratings, Network subscriptions, etc.
Take the Roman example; I don't doubt for a moment that Joe Anoa'i is professional as hell and takes the role of locker room leader seriously, so I imagine he's mostly a pleasure for the writers to work with. However, notice how Kaz says "We don't have to worry about Roman, because he gets noise" (draws a crowd reaction) - this does not take into account whether that crowd noise is indicative of something that is net positive or net negative for business. Let's face facts: in terms of fan interest, WWE has been on a decline for over 15 years now, with the drop becoming precipitous in recent years. Yes, the TV deals are bonkers so the company's got revenue coming out of its eyeballs, but all this stuff isn't translating into fan engagement.
Also notice the real lack of emphasis on complete storytelling or having a full arc in mind for any characters; there's a lot of emphasis on particular sketches or promo lines, but very little on engaging the audience over the long haul with a narrative that'll keep them coming back to keep watching and not just pop in now and then to cheer along with their favorite catchphrases. I bet it's a great rush when something you wrote gets a positive crowd reaction, deservedly so, but what purpose are these things serving in the grand scheme of things? Are we creating fully fleshed out characters so that the matchmakers can then combine talents into programs that'll be interesting based on the clash of personalities and styles involved, or are we living moment-to-moment based on crowd reaction without real regard for where a storyline is going, how a character might evolve, etc.? Again, it at least feels like a case of WWE's mentality of "moments" being more important than stories. He brought up Bryan's WM 30 win, and yes it was a great moment, but its build was something WWE essentially had to be forced into, because they didn't want to do the work of telling that type of long-form narrative of Bryan finally reaching the top, getting cheated out of his glory, then having to fight like hell to get it all back; they wanted the quick and easy story of "Hey, look, Batista's back and he's fighting his old stablemate!" while they were just going to pair Bryan with Sheamus again.
I get that Kaz was saying he was part of the "away team", so maybe the long term stories weren't his major responsibility, but this mentality still comes through with the on-air product, so I'm inclined to think it's a key issue. Vince McMahon still knows how to get a crowd to react the way he'd like it to in a particular moment (despite evidence at times to the contrary), particularly when he's acting as an on-air character, but I still don't think he's held onto lessons from long ago about how engaging your audience over the long haul with consistent motivations, defined characters, and angles/moments/promos that then inform the match they lead to (see: the Mega Powers Explode year-plus build, the narrative flow of Austin vs. Bret into Austin vs. McMahon, etc.).
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 4, 2019 12:12:05 GMT -5
I love that Triple H cracked up at the Steiner Math joke from Big E a few months ago. This was my favourite part of the whole thing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 12:37:44 GMT -5
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,484
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Post by salz4life on Mar 4, 2019 16:12:15 GMT -5
When I first saw the name "Kaz", I was wondering when Frankie Kazarian got a job writing for the WWE. My first thought was Kaz Hyashi (sp?)..... LOL |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 4, 2019 16:17:17 GMT -5
Also notice the real lack of emphasis on complete storytelling or having a full arc in mind for any characters; there's a lot of emphasis on particular sketches or promo lines, but very little on engaging the audience over the long haul with a narrative that'll keep them coming back to keep watching and not just pop in now and then to cheer along with their favorite catchphrases. I bet it's a great rush when something you wrote gets a positive crowd reaction, deservedly so, but what purpose are these things serving in the grand scheme of things? Are we creating fully fleshed out characters so that the matchmakers can then combine talents into programs that'll be interesting based on the clash of personalities and styles involved, or are we living moment-to-moment based on crowd reaction without real regard for where a storyline is going, how a character might evolve, etc.? Again, it at least feels like a case of WWE's mentality of "moments" being more important than stories. My interpretation is that this is a consequence of the people running the company, including Vince, being in a 'contracted employee,' territory mindset. Having long-term stories requires a well-oiled machine, and they don't WANT a well-oiled machine, because then it's hard to tell what individuals to blame when things aren't working or to credit when things go well. They're stuck in the thinking of "Who are the stars, and who 'just doesn't have it?'" and it seeps down into multiple aspects of their production. |
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,716
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Post by schma on Mar 5, 2019 1:26:16 GMT -5
Almost everyone who has worked for WWE in recent times and left says the same thing: the place isn’t evil and the IWC’s constant demands aren’t practical. It’s not indy wrestling. So, Kaz made it seem like he had a meteoric rise- I wonder why he just got randomly fired? Also, I have always liked Kaz, I enjoy his opinions on wrestling and hip hop culture. But, they hired him to be a writer because he had a lot of followers? I don’t get how that translates to being a writer. Kaz is more of just a personality, really. He’s, like, part of that New York hip hop media internet journalist/podcaster scene. Thanks for putting that together, that was enjoyable and easy to read. He got fired for refusing to cut his hair. All his hair or just the sideburns? |
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Post by sfvega on Mar 5, 2019 8:59:04 GMT -5
- He applied for another job and didn't get it but they found his social media links on his application and saw he had a lot of followers. Once they found out he's been watching since a kid they asked if he'd want to join creative so he applied for that and got the job. ......Dialogue, music queues, where the wrestlers pic up the mic, if something f***s up related to anything like that on screen the writer's going to be first person the brass get at. They're first on the chopping block. Writers are replacable.Can't imagine why Raw has been almost completely unwatchable for the last several years. Not only are you producing an ungodly amount of TV (hour-long shows produce 20-28 hours of TV a season/year, WWE main roster produces 23 a month not counting 205, and much more WM weekend), but they view writers as plastic bags from a Walgreen's. The fact that you'd hire a guy who didn't even apply for the job, on the basis of something inconsequential as social media followers, give him a good run of 9 months, and even he knew that the writers got fired (and hired, for that matter) for any ol reason? Hubris. |
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 5, 2019 13:53:47 GMT -5
When I first saw the name "Kaz", I was wondering when Frankie Kazarian got a job writing for the WWE. Honestly, I am surprised that the WWE never tried to bring Kazarian back in some capacity. He was going to be the color commentator on Smackdown, back in the day, but Johnny Ace went out and hired the wrong *az. |
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