Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 3:40:25 GMT -5
Man, 205 Live suckssss. When you think of Cruiserweights, you think of Mysterio... Eddie... Psicosis... Liger... Ultimo Dragon... not Tony f***ing Nese. The show had so much potential at the beginning. You had Aries, Neville, KENTA, TJP, Swann, Enzo... now? We have guys like Nese, Buddy Murphy and Mike Kanellis. I’m gonna go out on a whim here and say nobody considers those guys Cruiserweights or at least traditional Cruiserweights. This show is dead fam. I dont even watch the show but I know for a fact Buddy Murphy is hugely popular with the people who watch it. And the guys you're talking about became stars in that cruiserweight period. The WCW division wasn't built on main event sensations. It's not dead due to the talent. The CW division has been treated like shit since they brought it back. It’s also dead due to the lack of talent in my eyes. Nese vs Murphy isn’t gonna gain anybody’s interest. Aries vs Neville on the other hand was red hot until they decided it had to be on the pre show. Enzo also had the Cruiserweight segments closing Raw’s. There’s no star quality on the show anymore cause they’ve released them all and failed to replace them. Guys like Kota Ibushi, Low-Ki, Zack Sabre Jr etc would have made up for the losses of Aries, Neville and KENTA. |
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Post by Modern Day Maharaja on Mar 20, 2019 4:13:35 GMT -5
Unfortunately I won't be watching Tony Nese's match. I'll be busy with literally anything else.
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Post by BoomPeriod on Mar 20, 2019 4:14:35 GMT -5
But did he point to the sign?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 20, 2019 4:36:36 GMT -5
I dont even watch the show but I know for a fact Buddy Murphy is hugely popular with the people who watch it. And the guys you're talking about became stars in that cruiserweight period. The WCW division wasn't built on main event sensations. It's not dead due to the talent. The CW division has been treated like shit since they brought it back. It’s also dead due to the lack of talent in my eyes. Nese vs Murphy isn’t gonna gain anybody’s interest. Aries vs Neville on the other hand was red hot until they decided it had to be on the pre show. Enzo also had the Cruiserweight segments closing Raw’s. There’s no star quality on the show anymore cause they’ve released them all and failed to replace them. Guys like Kota Ibushi, Low-Ki, Zack Sabre Jr etc would have made up for the losses of Aries, Neville and KENTA. You mean the Buddy Murphy who has been having really hot PPV title matches that even in front of a tepid pre-show crowd not familiar wit them got really good reactions? You mean the Tony Nese who just a month ago had that banger against Noam Dar and who tonight had a pretty solid showing too? There is so much talent in that division, so many people who've really come into something special and found their footing. I don't see any way that this won't be a really hot way to kick off the eleven hours of Wrestlemania we're about to have. The guys you're naming as good replacements are dudes who turned WWE down or who dont' want to be there. Enzo didn't have cruiserweight segments in big positions on Raw because he was a real star, it was because Vince was building up 205 Live around Enzo and passionate about it, and once Enzo went boom, Vince lost interest in everything about it and handed the show over to Triple H entirely. The match will happen, it will get some good reactions, WWE won't do anything to consider the idea of doing more with the division, nothing will change. Doesn't mean there's no talent on there, these guys are killing it, they're just killing it on a show WWE never presented well. |
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
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Post by schma on Mar 20, 2019 4:47:56 GMT -5
I dont even watch the show but I know for a fact Buddy Murphy is hugely popular with the people who watch it. And the guys you're talking about became stars in that cruiserweight period. The WCW division wasn't built on main event sensations. It's not dead due to the talent. The CW division has been treated like shit since they brought it back. It’s also dead due to the lack of talent in my eyes. Nese vs Murphy isn’t gonna gain anybody’s interest. Aries vs Neville on the other hand was red hot until they decided it had to be on the pre show. Enzo also had the Cruiserweight segments closing Raw’s. There’s no star quality on the show anymore cause they’ve released them all and failed to replace them. Guys like Kota Ibushi, Low-Ki, Zack Sabre Jr etc would have made up for the losses of Aries, Neville and KENTA. A lot of the all time great Cruiserweights were part of the WCW cruiserweight division when it was one of the hottest things in one of the hottest periods in wrestling. They were fully integrated with their roster and many of them rose up the ranks. From the start with 205 live and this crew they have been cordoned off. Yes Neville was doing amazing character work, yes Enzo was getting segments but for the most part 205's contribution to raw were six man tag team spotfests that were only given a few minutes. Few of them were given any chance to display any kind of character to the main audience, that was for 205 live. Neville left because he'd realized he had hit a glass ceiling since at the time WWE refused to integrate the rosters.
The Smackdown I went to, the crowd started pretty mild for the 205 section of the show and Buddy Murphy woke that place up. By the end of the 205 live, people were really into it even though most of them had probably never seen the show.
It's similar to the Divas a few years back when they couldn't get match time to save their lives. Even those who had some talent in the ring couldn't really get over with 3 minute matches because there's no time to do anything.
These cruiserweights have a lot of potential stars but WWE needs to stop cordoning them off so that they can make an impact like Eddie, Mysterio, Psicosis and all the others you mentioned. If those guys had been relegated to WCW Saturday Night and not allowed to interact with the main roster, many of them would be footnotes at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 4:53:17 GMT -5
It’s also dead due to the lack of talent in my eyes. Nese vs Murphy isn’t gonna gain anybody’s interest. Aries vs Neville on the other hand was red hot until they decided it had to be on the pre show. Enzo also had the Cruiserweight segments closing Raw’s. There’s no star quality on the show anymore cause they’ve released them all and failed to replace them. Guys like Kota Ibushi, Low-Ki, Zack Sabre Jr etc would have made up for the losses of Aries, Neville and KENTA. You mean the Buddy Murphy who has been having really hot PPV title matches that even in front of a tepid pre-show crowd not familiar wit them got really good reactions? You mean the Tony Nese who just a month ago had that banger against Noam Dar and who tonight had a pretty solid showing too? There is so much talent in that division, so many people who've really come into something special and found their footing. I don't see any way that this won't be a really hot way to kick off the eleven hours of Wrestlemania we're about to have. The guys you're naming as good replacements are dudes who turned WWE down or who dont' want to be there. Enzo didn't have cruiserweight segments in big positions on Raw because he was a real star, it was because Vince was building up 205 Live around Enzo and passionate about it, and once Enzo went boom, Vince lost interest in everything about it and handed the show over to Triple H entirely. The match will happen, it will get some good reactions, WWE won't do anything to consider the idea of doing more with the division, nothing will change. Doesn't mean there's no talent on there, these guys are killing it, they're just killing it on a show WWE never presented well. There’s more to wrestling than just good matches. None of these guys are marketable and that’s why WWE aren’t arsed about 205 Live. Enzo was marketable. Neville was marketable. All of these guys have nothing distinguishable about them. They’re just “solid wrestlers”... the Cruiserweight Division should be about high flying and stuff like that. If not then what separates it from NXT or NXT UK? There’s guys there having decent matches too. People were hyped about a Cruiserweight Division cause they hoped it would be like WCW’s or TNA’s X Division. Instead it’s just... there. No amount of good matches is gonna get fan’s interest going. Cause none of them have any actual characters. That’s what WWE want. Marketability and money. Buddy Murphy isn’t gonna be making them any money. Tony Nese isn’t gonna be making them any money. Not unless they find their niche. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 20, 2019 5:00:27 GMT -5
You mean the Buddy Murphy who has been having really hot PPV title matches that even in front of a tepid pre-show crowd not familiar wit them got really good reactions? You mean the Tony Nese who just a month ago had that banger against Noam Dar and who tonight had a pretty solid showing too? There is so much talent in that division, so many people who've really come into something special and found their footing. I don't see any way that this won't be a really hot way to kick off the eleven hours of Wrestlemania we're about to have. The guys you're naming as good replacements are dudes who turned WWE down or who dont' want to be there. Enzo didn't have cruiserweight segments in big positions on Raw because he was a real star, it was because Vince was building up 205 Live around Enzo and passionate about it, and once Enzo went boom, Vince lost interest in everything about it and handed the show over to Triple H entirely. The match will happen, it will get some good reactions, WWE won't do anything to consider the idea of doing more with the division, nothing will change. Doesn't mean there's no talent on there, these guys are killing it, they're just killing it on a show WWE never presented well. There’s more to wrestling than just good matches. None of these guys are marketable and that’s why WWE aren’t arsed about 205 Live. Enzo was marketable. Neville was marketable. All of these guys have nothing distinguishable about them. They’re just “solid wrestlers”... the Cruiserweight Division should be about high flying and stuff like that. If not then what separates it from NXT or NXT UK? There’s guys there having decent matches too. People were hyped about a Cruiserweight Division cause they hoped it would be like WCW’s or TNA’s X Division. Instead it’s just... there. No amount of good matches is gonna get fan’s interest going. Cause none of them have any actual characters. That’s what WWE want. Marketability and money. Buddy Murphy isn’t gonna be making them any money. Tony Nese isn’t gonna be making them any money. Not unless they find their niche. Dude, the names you mentioned earlier weren’t going to make money on 205 Live because WWE didn’t give a crap about 205 Live. Even when Enzo was champ, he barely interacted with anyone else except that one Miz segment and the Nia Jax love feud they stopped because Enzo was a goddamn tool, to put it lightly. Nobody else interacted with anyone else on the main roster, the ropes were changed to make them even more ghettoized and the crowds weren’t caring because they had zero reason to care. You can talk lyrical about guys like Swann, TJP, Neville whoever but nobody gave a shit about them at the time because they were treated that way even when Vince was in charge. 205 Live, until they get their act together and make it mean something, is a way to stop indies from having those talents. Nothing more and nothing less. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 20, 2019 5:10:32 GMT -5
You mean the Buddy Murphy who has been having really hot PPV title matches that even in front of a tepid pre-show crowd not familiar wit them got really good reactions? You mean the Tony Nese who just a month ago had that banger against Noam Dar and who tonight had a pretty solid showing too? There is so much talent in that division, so many people who've really come into something special and found their footing. I don't see any way that this won't be a really hot way to kick off the eleven hours of Wrestlemania we're about to have. The guys you're naming as good replacements are dudes who turned WWE down or who dont' want to be there. Enzo didn't have cruiserweight segments in big positions on Raw because he was a real star, it was because Vince was building up 205 Live around Enzo and passionate about it, and once Enzo went boom, Vince lost interest in everything about it and handed the show over to Triple H entirely. The match will happen, it will get some good reactions, WWE won't do anything to consider the idea of doing more with the division, nothing will change. Doesn't mean there's no talent on there, these guys are killing it, they're just killing it on a show WWE never presented well. There’s more to wrestling than just good matches. None of these guys are marketable and that’s why WWE aren’t arsed about 205 Live. Enzo was marketable. Neville was marketable. All of these guys have nothing distinguishable about them. They’re just “solid wrestlers”... the Cruiserweight Division should be about high flying and stuff like that. If not then what separates it from NXT or NXT UK? There’s guys there having decent matches too. People were hyped about a Cruiserweight Division cause they hoped it would be like WCW’s or TNA’s X Division. Instead it’s just... there. No amount of good matches is gonna get fan’s interest going. Cause none of them have any actual characters. That’s what WWE want. Marketability and money. Buddy Murphy isn’t gonna be making them any money. Tony Nese isn’t gonna be making them any money. Not unless they find their niche. Which is why these guys get praise from fans who enjoy their matches and watch shows they're on right?? If you can make an audience react to you and turn them around on your match, you've done your job as a performer and succeeded at entertaining people, "marketability" or "star power" is an intangible, near-meaningless concept; watch an arena of people who just watched the Elimination Chamber gauntlet come alive for Tony Nese vs. Noam Dar and tell me there isn't something worthwhile there that's good enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 5:15:01 GMT -5
Do we know why they moved 205 back to after Smackdown? That's been a major problem since the beginning; the opening act shouldn't go on after the headliner. They always have to try and reel in an exhausted, disinterested crowd. Major credit to those guys though, cause they usually do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 5:23:23 GMT -5
There’s more to wrestling than just good matches. None of these guys are marketable and that’s why WWE aren’t arsed about 205 Live. Enzo was marketable. Neville was marketable. All of these guys have nothing distinguishable about them. They’re just “solid wrestlers”... the Cruiserweight Division should be about high flying and stuff like that. If not then what separates it from NXT or NXT UK? There’s guys there having decent matches too. People were hyped about a Cruiserweight Division cause they hoped it would be like WCW’s or TNA’s X Division. Instead it’s just... there. No amount of good matches is gonna get fan’s interest going. Cause none of them have any actual characters. That’s what WWE want. Marketability and money. Buddy Murphy isn’t gonna be making them any money. Tony Nese isn’t gonna be making them any money. Not unless they find their niche. Which is why these guys get praise from fans who enjoy their matches and watch shows they're on right?? If you can make an audience react to you and turn them around on your match, you've done your job as a performer and succeeded at entertaining people, "marketability" or "star power" is an intangible, near-meaningless concept; watch an arena of people who just watched the Elimination Chamber gauntlet come alive for Tony Nese vs. Noam Dar and tell me there isn't something worthwhile there that's good enough. And how many of those people will remember that match in 2 months time? Not many. Cause they see matches like that all the time. WWE have hours upon hours of shows per week. The fact is, matches rarely have any long term effect unless it’s on a grand stage like a PPV. Long ago I could remember the classic matches like 123 Kid/Bret on Raw, Flair/Perfect on Raw and Venis/Rikishi in the cage on Raw. But we’ve gotten so many “back and forth” high paced matches on TV in recent years, it’s become hard to distinguish them. They almost mean nothing. Look how many times Ziggler has faced Rollins for example. All good matches which would have probably gone down in history and been remembered by fans for YEARS if they happened 20 years ago... Now I challenge you to remember anything that happened in those matches without getting confused. “No wait.. Rollins did that in his other great match against Kevin Owens on Raw!.... or wait, was that against McIntyre?” To narrow my point down... people forget about good matches. They only truly remember the spectacles of the match. What’s on the line, what it means and how important the match is. They remember the STORY. The problem with this 205 Live roster (and it especially goes onto the NXT UK roster and even most of the main roster). There’s no creativity. Ask any wrestling fan in 20 years and I bet they’ll be able to remember Max Moon or Doink The Clown. Ask them who Mason Ryan or in this case, Tony Nese was and I bet they wouldn’t have a clue. These wrestlers don’t do anything to stand out anymore and I don’t think it’s the company restricting them as much as fans like to believe. Too many wrestlers are happy busting their ass having good matches, they’re forgetting the part that actually makes wrestlers “superstars” |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 20, 2019 5:35:38 GMT -5
Which is why these guys get praise from fans who enjoy their matches and watch shows they're on right?? If you can make an audience react to you and turn them around on your match, you've done your job as a performer and succeeded at entertaining people, "marketability" or "star power" is an intangible, near-meaningless concept; watch an arena of people who just watched the Elimination Chamber gauntlet come alive for Tony Nese vs. Noam Dar and tell me there isn't something worthwhile there that's good enough. And how many of those people will remember that match in 2 months time? Not many. Cause they see matches like that all the time. WWE have hours upon hours of shows per week. The fact is, matches rarely have any long term effect unless it’s on a grand stage like a PPV. Long ago I could remember the classic matches like 123 Kid/Bret on Raw, Flair/Perfect on Raw and Venis/Rikishi in the cage on Raw. But we’ve gotten so many “back and forth” high paced matches on TV in recent years, it’s become hard to distinguish them. They almost mean nothing. Look how many times Ziggler has faced Rollins for example. All good matches which would have probably gone down in history and been remembered by fans for YEARS if they happened 20 years ago... Now I challenge you to remember anything that happened in those matches without getting confused. “No wait.. Rollins did that in his other great match against Kevin Owens on Raw!.... or wait, was that against McIntyre?” To narrow my point down... people forget about good matches. They only truly remember the spectacles of the match. What’s on the line, what it means and how important the match is. They remember the STORY. The problem with this 205 Live roster (and it especially goes onto the NXT UK roster and even most of the main roster). There’s no creativity. Ask any wrestling fan in 20 years and I bet they’ll be able to remember Max Moon or Doink The Clown. Ask them who Mason Ryan or in this case, Tony Nese was and I bet they wouldn’t have a clue. These wrestlers don’t do anything to stand out anymore and I don’t think it’s the company restricting them as much as fans like to believe. Too many wrestlers are happy busting their ass having good matches, they’re forgetting the part that actually makes wrestlers “superstars” Okay but the story isn't the fault of the wrestlers. Nobody on 205 Live is just unable to tell a good story. They're being failed by the presentation and the writing. They have to stay within lines drawn for them and the only input they do get seems to be putting on good matches. The writing fails the stakes and that's not an issue on 205 Live that's a problem in WWE. The writing doesn't understand what it's doing anymore, but WWE has the most talented roster in the world and if they had a competent end result it could be amazing; that's not on Tony Nese or Buddy Murphy for failing to be "stars". Neville was great, he didn't move the needle for 205 Live. Enzo was a loud character whose run on top of 205 Live didn't do much for the show at all. At this point I can't even dream up some kind of hypothetical "if WWE had A, B, and C they would f*** them up" because that's basically what WWE has, and they f*** it up. This is such an insane dream roster of top talent and also Baron Corbin, and it's failed completely by a creative team scripting bad promos for people and having no idea how to tell stories. The idea wrestlers just don't bother telling stories and go "Hey look at these cool flips" is insane, at some point the people writing the show would say "Here tell this story, do this, do something, anything, please". Sure, yeah, good matches happen a lot now. That's not a bad thing, that's a shift in wrestling. Of course every match isn't going to be remembered all the time, it doesn't have to be. Not every match from those days were remembered. Iconic matches will always rise up over the field, the idea good matches mean nothing is a bad point when they lead into a show being good. There were a ton of random New Generation warm bodies amid Max Moon who don't last, you're real deep in confirmation bias there. Using the historical perspective of "I remember these things, I don't see any equivalents right now" is flawed and missing a lot of how that works. A good match is directly entertaining right there in that moment to the audience, that's all it necessarily needs to be. There's no room for everything to be a timeless spectacle and a class, it's just not how anything works, that doesn't mean matches can't be big and interesting. All the guys you listed didn't move the needle or bring about anything spectacular and lasting either. Of the guys you listed who WWE could have hired, there's no f***ing way Zack Sabre Jr., a man who is only just now developing a personality hanging out with Minoru Suzuki beyond 'the spindly grabs man', would just magically be a star where Buddy Murphy isn't. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 5:42:32 GMT -5
Yo, I marked for 'spindly grabs man'. It's like Slenderman's non-union equivalent.
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Post by HisRoyalGreeness on Mar 20, 2019 6:35:26 GMT -5
Nese is gonna need a name for his ever growing fan base. Might I suggest we call ourselves the Flock of Nese?
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Post by Instant Classic on Mar 20, 2019 8:13:33 GMT -5
The only way I’d care about the cruiserweights is of Gulak was the main guy, so I don’t care.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 12:21:43 GMT -5
Nese is gonna need a name for his ever growing fan base. Might I suggest we call ourselves the Flock of Nese? Tony's Nieces. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 20, 2019 12:36:05 GMT -5
Nese is gonna need a name for his ever growing fan base. Might I suggest we call ourselves the Flock of Nese? Tony's Nieces. Nese’s Pieces. |
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ayumidah
Patti Mayonnaise
DOOM TIME!!!!!
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Post by ayumidah on Mar 20, 2019 13:28:10 GMT -5
Why are they putting Murphy in a 6-on-1 handicap match against Tony Nese's abs? Seems weird to stack the deck against a heel like that. 8 on 1? But did he point to the sign? Nah he was too busy getting attacked by Buddy immediately afterwards |
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Mar 20, 2019 13:38:01 GMT -5
I don’t watch 205 Live but the idea that this is their Wrestlemania match makes me laugh. Has the storyline been good? Does Nese deserve this shot?
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rrg251
Don Corleone
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Post by rrg251 on Mar 20, 2019 14:20:47 GMT -5
I’m thrilled. Less than six years ago I saw him main event an Evolve show in the filthiest, worst hole-in-the-wall venue I’ve ever seen. And now he’s getting a shot at a WWE championship at Wrestlemania. Journeys like these are the stuff you live for as a fan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 14:54:55 GMT -5
Really recommend watching Nese vs. Cedric last night as well as that awesome No DQ match between Nese and Dar last month. I joke around about Nese, but guy is underrated. The crowd went from being dead as hell last night to giving both guys a ton of respect for their match.
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