Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,890
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 24, 2019 15:09:27 GMT -5
The contract bit is more the issue for me since, like Cornette's said about it in the past, "you'll be gone, what does it matter?" They did give him creative control, though, and were in the wrong to reneg on it. I do wonder, though, about who all he offered. I don't think it was literally just anyone he'd drop the belt to, but I do remember Austin, Mankind, Undertaker, and I think Vader and Shamrock, he was willing to lose it to. I feel like I remember Bret saying he’d even job to Steve Lombardi for it if need be, but that obviously might’ve just been exaggeration to make his point. Naw, Brawler actually won a #1 contender match for the next MSG Show. Bret was gonna to drop it to him there. HBK wound up doing the match shortly after Montreal.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 24, 2019 21:29:44 GMT -5
That Brody show. Man. That was tough.
|
|
|
Post by madness50 on Apr 25, 2019 0:38:27 GMT -5
Watched the Bruiser Brody episode tonight. One of the most vile incidents ever in wrestling history. It was unreal the level of corruption in that Puerto Rico territory. That whole “trial” business was a farce too. That piece of scum will get his one day.
|
|
|
Post by MC Blowfish on Apr 25, 2019 7:51:19 GMT -5
The Brody episode was hard to watch. I just can't believe the levels that they went to, to cover that murder up.
|
|
|
Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Apr 25, 2019 8:22:41 GMT -5
I certainly don't think Montreal was a work, but damn, how lucky did the 'Wrestling With Shadows' people get?
They had some boring Bret Hart doc turn into something historic.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 25, 2019 17:52:06 GMT -5
Watching Brusier Brody was one thing. Seeing Frank Goodish with his son was another. Just heatbreaking.
|
|
|
Post by Muskrat on Apr 26, 2019 19:14:46 GMT -5
I heard Meltzer tweet the Von Erich one is good, but I just spent the last 6 months listening to breakdown of that story by The Lapsed Fan, so I feel like I might feel the same. Plus, have seen Heroes of World Class and the WWE doc, as well as read Muchnick’s article. I haven’t seen it, but apparently what sets it apart from the other World Class docs is the interview with Kevin. It’s supposedly the most honest, and frank interview he’s ever done.
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Apr 27, 2019 1:05:46 GMT -5
for the record, Cornette is claiming he came up with the Sharpshooter spot specifically, told Vince and he basically dismissed it as crazy. Then when Cornette saw the spot happening the next night he realized they were doing it and that's when he ran out of the arena because he thought he'd get his ass kicked. Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet. Patterson was not smartened up, he was too much of a fan of Bret's so they never told him, Brisco was heavily involved though. As far as why the sharpshooter spot, I believe Shawn's story. According to him, they decided they were going to screw him over, but had to figure out how. Shawn told the layout of the match to Vince, HHH and I believe Brisco, the sharpshooter spot was planned before they even decided to do the screwjob. They all agreed the sharpshooter was the perfect and only real opportunity to do it. As far as Cornette, I could see him suggesting the screwjob, but I do wonder if he is lying about the sharpshooter part. Although I have heard him tell the story before, and him running out of the arena would have been a hilarious thing to see.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,038
|
Post by Mozenrath on Apr 27, 2019 1:16:37 GMT -5
Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet. Patterson was not smartened up, he was too much of a fan of Bret's so they never told him, Brisco was heavily involved though. As far as why the sharpshooter spot, I believe Shawn's story. According to him, they decided they were going to screw him over, but had to figure out how. Shawn told the layout of the match to Vince, HHH and I believe Brisco, the sharpshooter spot was planned before they even decided to do the screwjob. They all agreed the sharpshooter was the perfect and only real opportunity to do it. As far as Cornette, I could see him suggesting the screwjob, but I do wonder if he is lying about the sharpshooter part. Although I have heard him tell the story before, and him running out of the arena would have been a hilarious thing to see. Actually, yeah, I remember Foley, I think, cursing at Patterson because he thought he knew about it and was disgusted, though was told later that Pat was innocent, so you'd be right.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 8:55:19 GMT -5
That Brody show. Man. That was tough. Yeah, tough to even describe what I saw. Good lord. His son said right off the bat that he'd apparently repressed a lot of memories of his dad, so everything he knew about him was from other people.... just from that one moment you knew this story was going to be terrifying. BTW, I guess the WWF really knew its core fanbase (especially those in the Northeast) had ZERO idea who Bruiser Brody was, because John Nord's Berserker was THE EXACT SAME THING EXCEPT A VIKING.
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,572
|
Post by cjh on Apr 29, 2019 8:59:49 GMT -5
Patterson was not smartened up, he was too much of a fan of Bret's so they never told him, Brisco was heavily involved though. As far as why the sharpshooter spot, I believe Shawn's story. According to him, they decided they were going to screw him over, but had to figure out how. Shawn told the layout of the match to Vince, HHH and I believe Brisco, the sharpshooter spot was planned before they even decided to do the screwjob. They all agreed the sharpshooter was the perfect and only real opportunity to do it. As far as Cornette, I could see him suggesting the screwjob, but I do wonder if he is lying about the sharpshooter part. Although I have heard him tell the story before, and him running out of the arena would have been a hilarious thing to see. Actually, yeah, I remember Foley, I think, cursing at Patterson because he thought he knew about it and was disgusted, though was told later that Pat was innocent, so you'd be right. Foley said in Have a Nice Day that it was Vince Russo who he confronted only to find out Russo didn't know about it. He said something to Russo along the lines of "You should be ashamed of yourself."
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Apr 29, 2019 9:57:47 GMT -5
Actually, yeah, I remember Foley, I think, cursing at Patterson because he thought he knew about it and was disgusted, though was told later that Pat was innocent, so you'd be right. Foley said in Have a Nice Day that it was Vince Russo who he confronted only to find out Russo didn't know about it. He said something to Russo along the lines of "You should be ashamed of yourself." I could see why Foley would think that was Russo, granted that would be giving Russo way too much credit. It's pretty clear Russo doesn't respect the business.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,038
|
Post by Mozenrath on Apr 29, 2019 9:58:25 GMT -5
Actually, yeah, I remember Foley, I think, cursing at Patterson because he thought he knew about it and was disgusted, though was told later that Pat was innocent, so you'd be right. Foley said in Have a Nice Day that it was Vince Russo who he confronted only to find out Russo didn't know about it. He said something to Russo along the lines of "You should be ashamed of yourself." Ah, my mistake. ...though, I mean, he wasn't wrong, just not for the reason he thought.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 29, 2019 10:00:25 GMT -5
Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet. Patterson was not smartened up, he was too much of a fan of Bret's so they never told him, Brisco was heavily involved though. As far as why the sharpshooter spot, I believe Shawn's story. According to him, they decided they were going to screw him over, but had to figure out how. Shawn told the layout of the match to Vince, HHH and I believe Brisco, the sharpshooter spot was planned before they even decided to do the screwjob. They all agreed the sharpshooter was the perfect and only real opportunity to do it. As far as Cornette, I could see him suggesting the screwjob, but I do wonder if he is lying about the sharpshooter part. Although I have heard him tell the story before, and him running out of the arena would have been a hilarious thing to see. Cornette specificly came up with the sharpshooter spot because he knew Bret would beat the crap out of Shawn in a fight. The spot was pitched as the babyface reversal spot that was gong to lead to the run in finish. You can see Bret getting into postion to put the hold on when he realizes the match is over.
|
|
Hulkshi Tanahashi
Crow T. Robot
Give me back my Doritos!
Posts: 46,920
Member is Online
|
Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Apr 29, 2019 20:28:58 GMT -5
Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet. Patterson was not smartened up, he was too much of a fan of Bret's so they never told him, Brisco was heavily involved though. As far as why the sharpshooter spot, I believe Shawn's story. According to him, they decided they were going to screw him over, but had to figure out how. Shawn told the layout of the match to Vince, HHH and I believe Brisco, the sharpshooter spot was planned before they even decided to do the screwjob. They all agreed the sharpshooter was the perfect and only real opportunity to do it. As far as Cornette, I could see him suggesting the screwjob, but I do wonder if he is lying about the sharpshooter part. Although I have heard him tell the story before, and him running out of the arena would have been a hilarious thing to see. I've always heard that Pat Patterson and JR weren't told about the Screwjob because they were afraid that one or both of them to would tell Bret and because Vince needed them to not know so that the other wrestlers had someone in management to trust; and they could have legitimately claimed to have not know by being left out.
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Apr 29, 2019 20:59:05 GMT -5
Patterson was not smartened up, he was too much of a fan of Bret's so they never told him, Brisco was heavily involved though. As far as why the sharpshooter spot, I believe Shawn's story. According to him, they decided they were going to screw him over, but had to figure out how. Shawn told the layout of the match to Vince, HHH and I believe Brisco, the sharpshooter spot was planned before they even decided to do the screwjob. They all agreed the sharpshooter was the perfect and only real opportunity to do it. As far as Cornette, I could see him suggesting the screwjob, but I do wonder if he is lying about the sharpshooter part. Although I have heard him tell the story before, and him running out of the arena would have been a hilarious thing to see. I've always heard that Pat Patterson and JR weren't told about the Screwjob because they were afraid that one or both of them to would tell Bret and because Vince needed them to not know so that the other wrestlers had someone in management to trust; and they could have legitimately claimed to have not know by being left out. It's odd, because the screwjob makes me actually think Vince is a better person than I would otherwise believe. I think both probably would have been professional and not told Bret, but Patterson especially(as he's a big fan of Bret's work) would have felt incredibly guilty much like Hebner. Vince also told Pritchard that he didn't want him to know, because he wanted the guilt to lie on his shoulders and not others. It seems like Pritchard didn't even seem to have a problem with it, he was more upset about being left in the dark since he had to run gorilla solo. Shawn and HHH both had a very poor relationship with Bret, so they wouldn't have felt as guilty(although Michaels definitely felt the weight of it) and Brisco pretty much inserted himself into the situation with absolutely no problem.
|
|
|
Post by The 1Watcher Experience on May 1, 2019 16:09:38 GMT -5
I’ve been seeing some clips from the Von Erichs one tonight. It looks absolutely amazing.
|
|
|
Post by OldDirtyBernie on May 1, 2019 21:43:11 GMT -5
Holy shit, that was hard to watch.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 1, 2019 21:44:22 GMT -5
Lapsed did it better.
|
|
|
Post by The 1Watcher Experience on May 1, 2019 22:21:45 GMT -5
The nostalgia is fun but the tragic stuff is hard to watch.
|
|