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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 10, 2019 11:47:55 GMT -5
So this f***s up Futaba story then ?
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Post by Duke Cameron on May 10, 2019 12:03:36 GMT -5
All of this is probably some fantasy some villain created to trap the Phantom Thieves in some kind of palace where everything they’ve wanted (Morgana being human, Futaba s mom being alive, etc.) to get them out of the way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 12:07:25 GMT -5
It is going to suck spending months dodging spoilers for this.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 10, 2019 12:09:22 GMT -5
All of this is probably some fantasy some villain created to trap the Phantom Thieves in some kind of palace where everything they’ve wanted (Morgana being human, Futaba s mom being alive, etc.) to get them out of the way. I mean that could be true too It's going be weird
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 10, 2019 12:11:25 GMT -5
It is going to suck spending months dodging spoilers for this. Dodging those spoilers like I did Endgame, tho that eventually got f**ed up too
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 12:34:10 GMT -5
Been replaying the vanilla game lately and man, I really hope they heavily overhaul... like, everything about the fifth arc. Like, the whole thing. The Hawaii trip is pointless padding (it really doesn't even work for fanservice since it comes directly after the beach part), everyone's acting like a bunch of conceited idiots, Morgana whines about nothing, there's the Okumura mess, Haru should really be brought in much earlier... So many aspects of it don't work.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 13, 2019 13:08:54 GMT -5
Been replaying the vanilla game lately and man, I really hope they heavily overhaul... like, everything about the fifth arc. Like, the whole thing. The Hawaii trip is pointless padding (it really doesn't even work for fanservice since it comes directly after the beach part), everyone's acting like a bunch of conceited idiots, Morgana whines about nothing, there's the Okumura mess, Haru should really be brought in much earlier... So many aspects of it don't work. Yea, as much as I love the game the last 15 hours or so could be a lot better Morgana being bitchy was just very annoying
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Posts: 47,575
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Post by Dub H on May 13, 2019 14:03:27 GMT -5
Been replaying the vanilla game lately and man, I really hope they heavily overhaul... like, everything about the fifth arc. Like, the whole thing. The Hawaii trip is pointless padding (it really doesn't even work for fanservice since it comes directly after the beach part), everyone's acting like a bunch of conceited idiots, Morgana whines about nothing, there's the Okumura mess, Haru should really be brought in much earlier... So many aspects of it don't work. Yea, as much as I love the game the last 15 hours or so could be a lot better Morgana being bitchy was just very annoying morgana might have been what i disliked the most about the game.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 13, 2019 14:28:00 GMT -5
Yea, as much as I love the game the last 15 hours or so could be a lot better Morgana being bitchy was just very annoying morgana might have been what i disliked the most about the game. He/It comes across as very whiney Him being uncertain of what he is drives him and I get that but it also comes across like you are using us too. You get mad when you feel like you are under appreciated but that wasn't really the case he just wanted more credit In a sense he was Tidus and we was Yuna. We are the driving force of the game but you play an important role as well. However, your whining could come across very bad. At least with Tidus tho once he figured out his purpose he never wavered at the end When they make him a human in Royal I wonder if that will change much of anything. If anything I expect his arrogance to increase
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on May 14, 2019 2:53:24 GMT -5
The worst part is what sparks the whole "Morgana feeling useless" part was a throwaway comment from Ryuji. The same Ryuji Morgana had been ragging on since the moment they met. And then everyone acts like Ryuji should be a mindreader and have consideration for Morgana's issues that he never opened up to the other Phantom Thieves about.
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Post by Raskovnik on May 14, 2019 5:12:39 GMT -5
Persona games have had pretty weak anime-style writing since the third game IMO, so I wouldn't count on them doing much to fix any existing issues with The Royal outside of QOL issues. I am in fact counting on them making it a bit worse. Persona 3 did it with FES and The Answer, though they also released Portable which had the female MC which was a nice bonus. Persona 4 did it with The Golden and the introduction of Marie, though I don't like Persona 4 at all in the first place so I recognize I'm not the target audience there.
That being said, I seriously wish they'd reconfigure things to make Haru not be a complete non-entity like she currently is. It's the #2 thing on my list. I'm quite partial to her design and what her character could POTENTIALLY be if they didn't cram her in there at the very last minute, do nothing to develop her, and even have your pep talk with her at the end of the game feel like that time your teacher made you compliment a random person in class except you've never so much as spoken to them before so you wind up saying the most generic things and it sucks for them too because they have to be like "Y-yeah thanks." A lot of people simply don't care about Haru and it's hard to blame them when her introduction is dopey as hell, she comes in like 641 hours into the game, and then she fades into nothingness the moment her storyline is over. I almost feel like I'm a fan of hers despite the game.
As a bisexual dude the #1 thing on my wish list is letting me romance Yusuke but I already know these dorks won't let me do it. These teasers they're showing of human Morgana in bed with Joker reek of current-Atlus's homophobic attitudes towards that kind of thing. It's being played as a joke like "eewww, boys sleeping together! imagine Joker's surprise when he wakes up! haha", just like there isn't any real positive representation of it during the vanilla Persona 5. It's one of the big reasons I have a bone to pick with Persona 4. People pat the game on the back all the time for Kanji's social link and how it handled him being gay, except he isn't even gay and to label him as such is actually kind of malicious, because his social link goes to great pains to explain that he ISN'T gay and how it's okay for straight guys to enjoy doing things others consider "unmanly", it doesn't make you gay. I know his dungeon and Shadow are very campy and read as gay to some people, but if that was ever their intent they clearly backed out of it somewhere along the line in development and it sucks anyways. Persona 5 has some of the same writers on the team from 4 so I'm not surprised that it's not handled much better there.
It's just a huge bummer considering how well bisexuality and same-sex romance was handled in Persona 2 20 years ago, by which I mean all romance options were treated respectfully, with returning Jun's affections is even being treated as the canon choice by the supplementary material and a lot of the staff. Yusuke is a great character and I know tons of people would love to have him be a valid option. The games themselves, particularly 5, are still a ton of fun to play but they've seriously regressed in a lot of ways, none more disappointing to me than this one. I'm open to being pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath.
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Powerline
ALF
I'm a pale imitator of a boy in the sky, with a cap on his head and a knot in his tie
Posts: 1,040
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Post by Powerline on May 14, 2019 6:32:52 GMT -5
Persona games have had pretty weak anime-style writing since the third game IMO, so I wouldn't count on them doing much to fix any existing issues with The Royal outside of QOL issues. I am in fact counting on them making it a bit worse. Persona 3 did it with FES and The Answer, though they also released Portable which had the female MC which was a nice bonus. Persona 4 did it with The Golden and the introduction of Marie, though I don't like Persona 4 at all in the first place so I recognize I'm not the target audience there. That being said, I seriously wish they'd reconfigure things to make Haru not be a complete non-entity like she currently is. It's the #2 thing on my list. I'm quite partial to her design and what her character could POTENTIALLY be if they didn't cram her in there at the very last minute, do nothing to develop her, and even have your pep talk with her at the end of the game feel like that time your teacher made you compliment a random person in class except you've never so much as spoken to them before so you wind up saying the most generic things and it sucks for them too because they have to be like "Y-yeah thanks." A lot of people simply don't care about Haru and it's hard to blame them when her introduction is dopey as hell, she comes in like 641 hours into the game, and then she fades into nothingness the moment her storyline is over. I almost feel like I'm a fan of hers despite the game. As a bisexual dude the #1 thing on my wish list is letting me romance Yusuke but I already know these dorks won't let me do it. These teasers they're showing of human Morgana in bed with Joker reek of current-Atlus's homophobic attitudes towards that kind of thing. It's being played as a joke like "eewww, boys sleeping together! imagine Joker's surprise when he wakes up! haha", just like there isn't any real positive representation of it during the vanilla Persona 5. It's one of the big reasons I have a bone to pick with Persona 4. People pat the game on the back all the time for Kanji's social link and how it handled him being gay, except he isn't even gay and to label him as such is actually kind of malicious, because his social link goes to great pains to explain that he ISN'T gay and how it's okay for straight guys to enjoy doing things others consider "unmanly", it doesn't make you gay. I know his dungeon and Shadow are very campy and read as gay to some people, but if that was ever their intent they clearly backed out of it somewhere along the line in development and it sucks anyways. Persona 5 has some of the same writers on the team from 4 so I'm not surprised that it's not handled much better there. It's just a huge bummer considering how well bisexuality and same-sex romance was handled in Persona 2 20 years ago, by which I mean all romance options were treated respectfully, with returning Jun's affections is even being treated as the canon choice by the supplementary material and a lot of the staff. Yusuke is a great character and I know tons of people would love to have him be a valid option. The games themselves, particularly 5, are still a ton of fun to play but they've seriously regressed in a lot of ways, none more disappointing to me than this one. I'm open to being pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath. I don't know much about 2, I'm one of those people that hopped on when 4 was "in".
The impression I always got in 4 was they wanted to go that far with Kanji's story but was told they couldn't (for one reason or another), and had to run it back until it was at a certain level. Though I will admit, the fact that Yosuke constantly pokes at him about it (especially in the anime) and never answered for it or learned better (I could get just being ignorant or uncomfortable, but it crossed the line into "OK, he is choosing not to get it") bothered the hell out of me. But a ton of people liked Yosuke so what the hell do I know?
I thought with time passing and whatnot they'd try to take a real shot at it in 5, and was kinda disappointed when they didn't. I know it's easy to typecast Yusuke as such, but again it all came off as "....well, maybe? ??". I don't need a character to be obnoxious, flamboyant, and constantly hitting me over the head in regards of their sexuality, but either shit or get off the pot. Don't just sit there.
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Post by Duke Cameron on May 14, 2019 6:36:23 GMT -5
I feel like I’m one of the few who actually like Marie.
Persona 5: Dancing in Starlight pretty much confirmed that Yusuke’s into girls when him, Joker and Ryuji discuss the topic multiple times.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,575
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Post by Dub H on May 14, 2019 6:46:14 GMT -5
Persona games have had pretty weak anime-style writing since the third game IMO, so I wouldn't count on them doing much to fix any existing issues with The Royal outside of QOL issues. I am in fact counting on them making it a bit worse. Persona 3 did it with FES and The Answer, though they also released Portable which had the female MC which was a nice bonus. Persona 4 did it with The Golden and the introduction of Marie, though I don't like Persona 4 at all in the first place so I recognize I'm not the target audience there. That being said, I seriously wish they'd reconfigure things to make Haru not be a complete non-entity like she currently is. It's the #2 thing on my list. I'm quite partial to her design and what her character could POTENTIALLY be if they didn't cram her in there at the very last minute, do nothing to develop her, and even have your pep talk with her at the end of the game feel like that time your teacher made you compliment a random person in class except you've never so much as spoken to them before so you wind up saying the most generic things and it sucks for them too because they have to be like "Y-yeah thanks." A lot of people simply don't care about Haru and it's hard to blame them when her introduction is dopey as hell, she comes in like 641 hours into the game, and then she fades into nothingness the moment her storyline is over. I almost feel like I'm a fan of hers despite the game. As a bisexual dude the #1 thing on my wish list is letting me romance Yusuke but I already know these dorks won't let me do it. These teasers they're showing of human Morgana in bed with Joker reek of current-Atlus's homophobic attitudes towards that kind of thing. It's being played as a joke like "eewww, boys sleeping together! imagine Joker's surprise when he wakes up! haha", just like there isn't any real positive representation of it during the vanilla Persona 5. It's one of the big reasons I have a bone to pick with Persona 4. People pat the game on the back all the time for Kanji's social link and how it handled him being gay, except he isn't even gay and to label him as such is actually kind of malicious, because his social link goes to great pains to explain that he ISN'T gay and how it's okay for straight guys to enjoy doing things others consider "unmanly", it doesn't make you gay. I know his dungeon and Shadow are very campy and read as gay to some people, but if that was ever their intent they clearly backed out of it somewhere along the line in development and it sucks anyways. Persona 5 has some of the same writers on the team from 4 so I'm not surprised that it's not handled much better there. It's just a huge bummer considering how well bisexuality and same-sex romance was handled in Persona 2 20 years ago, by which I mean all romance options were treated respectfully, with returning Jun's affections is even being treated as the canon choice by the supplementary material and a lot of the staff. Yusuke is a great character and I know tons of people would love to have him be a valid option. The games themselves, particularly 5, are still a ton of fun to play but they've seriously regressed in a lot of ways, none more disappointing to me than this one. I'm open to being pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath. I don't know much about 2, I'm one of those people that hopped on when 4 was "in".
The impression I always got in 4 was they wanted to go that far with Kanji's story but was told they couldn't (for one reason or another), and had to run it back until it was at a certain level. Though I will admit, the fact that Yosuke constantly pokes at him about it (especially in the anime) and never answered for it or learned better (I could get just being ignorant or uncomfortable, but it crossed the line into "OK, he is choosing not to get it") bothered the hell out of me. But a ton of people liked Yosuke so what the hell do I know? I thought with time passing and whatnot they'd try to take a real shot at it in 5, and was kinda disappointed when they didn't. I know it's easy to typecast Yusuke as such, but again it all came off as "....well, maybe? ??". I don't need a character to be obnoxious, flamboyant, and constantly hitting me over the head in regards of their sexuality, but either shit or get off the pot. Don't just sit there. I think Kanji was exactly what they wanted ,he couldnt be what he wanted to be because peiple kept making assumptions about him and even himself doubted. Funny enough there is lines for a Yosuke romantic option that went unused
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Post by Raskovnik on May 14, 2019 7:06:40 GMT -5
Persona games have had pretty weak anime-style writing since the third game IMO, so I wouldn't count on them doing much to fix any existing issues with The Royal outside of QOL issues. I am in fact counting on them making it a bit worse. Persona 3 did it with FES and The Answer, though they also released Portable which had the female MC which was a nice bonus. Persona 4 did it with The Golden and the introduction of Marie, though I don't like Persona 4 at all in the first place so I recognize I'm not the target audience there. That being said, I seriously wish they'd reconfigure things to make Haru not be a complete non-entity like she currently is. It's the #2 thing on my list. I'm quite partial to her design and what her character could POTENTIALLY be if they didn't cram her in there at the very last minute, do nothing to develop her, and even have your pep talk with her at the end of the game feel like that time your teacher made you compliment a random person in class except you've never so much as spoken to them before so you wind up saying the most generic things and it sucks for them too because they have to be like "Y-yeah thanks." A lot of people simply don't care about Haru and it's hard to blame them when her introduction is dopey as hell, she comes in like 641 hours into the game, and then she fades into nothingness the moment her storyline is over. I almost feel like I'm a fan of hers despite the game. As a bisexual dude the #1 thing on my wish list is letting me romance Yusuke but I already know these dorks won't let me do it. These teasers they're showing of human Morgana in bed with Joker reek of current-Atlus's homophobic attitudes towards that kind of thing. It's being played as a joke like "eewww, boys sleeping together! imagine Joker's surprise when he wakes up! haha", just like there isn't any real positive representation of it during the vanilla Persona 5. It's one of the big reasons I have a bone to pick with Persona 4. People pat the game on the back all the time for Kanji's social link and how it handled him being gay, except he isn't even gay and to label him as such is actually kind of malicious, because his social link goes to great pains to explain that he ISN'T gay and how it's okay for straight guys to enjoy doing things others consider "unmanly", it doesn't make you gay. I know his dungeon and Shadow are very campy and read as gay to some people, but if that was ever their intent they clearly backed out of it somewhere along the line in development and it sucks anyways. Persona 5 has some of the same writers on the team from 4 so I'm not surprised that it's not handled much better there. It's just a huge bummer considering how well bisexuality and same-sex romance was handled in Persona 2 20 years ago, by which I mean all romance options were treated respectfully, with returning Jun's affections is even being treated as the canon choice by the supplementary material and a lot of the staff. Yusuke is a great character and I know tons of people would love to have him be a valid option. The games themselves, particularly 5, are still a ton of fun to play but they've seriously regressed in a lot of ways, none more disappointing to me than this one. I'm open to being pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath. I don't know much about 2, I'm one of those people that hopped on when 4 was "in".
The impression I always got in 4 was they wanted to go that far with Kanji's story but was told they couldn't (for one reason or another), and had to run it back until it was at a certain level. Though I will admit, the fact that Yosuke constantly pokes at him about it (especially in the anime) and never answered for it or learned better (I could get just being ignorant or uncomfortable, but it crossed the line into "OK, he is choosing not to get it") bothered the hell out of me. But a ton of people liked Yosuke so what the hell do I know?
I thought with time passing and whatnot they'd try to take a real shot at it in 5, and was kinda disappointed when they didn't. I know it's easy to typecast Yusuke as such, but again it all came off as "....well, maybe? ??". I don't need a character to be obnoxious, flamboyant, and constantly hitting me over the head in regards of their sexuality, but either shit or get off the pot. Don't just sit there. 2 is really tough to recommend, because as much as I adore the characters, story, and atmosphere of the game, the actual gameplay is simply not good. The random battle encounter rate is off the charts (we're talking 10 minutes to walk down a hallway) and the battles themselves are very slow paced. There are tons of fun character interactions and stuff during the battles proper, but certainly not enough that I'd say give it a shot, and I'm a diehard fan of the game. Definitely worth checking out an LP or something of that variety though. Yosuke's homophobia was another thing that put me off about Persona 4. He doesn't really let up on Kanji until it's confirmed that Kanji is into girls, and never really gets any grief for it nor is it treated as something that bad. That combined with how Kanji was handled spoke volumes to me. When it comes to Yusuke, he comes across as bisexual or even pansexual to me. There's definitely enough subtext there to make an argument, but a ton of Japanese media LOVES to queer bait rather than taking a more firm, visible stance on the matter. Persona is no different, though it used to be.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Posts: 47,575
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Post by Dub H on May 14, 2019 7:09:14 GMT -5
I don't know much about 2, I'm one of those people that hopped on when 4 was "in".
The impression I always got in 4 was they wanted to go that far with Kanji's story but was told they couldn't (for one reason or another), and had to run it back until it was at a certain level. Though I will admit, the fact that Yosuke constantly pokes at him about it (especially in the anime) and never answered for it or learned better (I could get just being ignorant or uncomfortable, but it crossed the line into "OK, he is choosing not to get it") bothered the hell out of me. But a ton of people liked Yosuke so what the hell do I know? I thought with time passing and whatnot they'd try to take a real shot at it in 5, and was kinda disappointed when they didn't. I know it's easy to typecast Yusuke as such, but again it all came off as "....well, maybe? ??". I don't need a character to be obnoxious, flamboyant, and constantly hitting me over the head in regards of their sexuality, but either shit or get off the pot. Don't just sit there. 2 is really tough to recommend, because as much as I adore the characters, story, and atmosphere of the game, the actual gameplay is simply not good. The random battle encounter rate is off the charts (we're talking 10 minutes to walk down a hallway) and the battles themselves are very slow paced. There are tons of fun character interactions and stuff during the battles proper, but certainly not enough that I'd say give it a shot, and I'm a diehard fan of the game. Definitely worth checking out an LP or something of that variety though. Yosuke's homophobia was another thing that put me off about Persona 4. He doesn't really let up on Kanji until it's confirmed that Kanji is into girls, and never really gets any grief for it nor is it treated as something that bad. That combined with how Kanji was handled spoke volumes to me. When it comes to Yusuke, he comes across as bisexual or even pansexual to me. There's definitely enough subtext there to make an argument, but a ton of Japanese media LOVES to queer bait rather than taking a more firm, visible stance on the matter. Persona is no different, though it used to be. I was actually put off a little to by Yosuke's reaction,even though its a reflection of the times. Part of me,with the fact that Yosuke is the one with the romantic option dialogue, makes me think they were going to subvert expecations and be the one in the closet.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 14, 2019 9:50:39 GMT -5
I feel like I’m one of the few who actually like Marie. Persona 5: Dancing in Starlight pretty much confirmed that Yusuke’s into girls when him, Joker and Ryuji discuss the topic multiple times. Plus the whole wanting to get Ann naked for art bit. He’s flustered and they play it off as him being weird but at the very least you could said he’s bi if anything
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 9:55:33 GMT -5
I'm inclined to think Yusuke is bi. Don't forget he also is a-okay with the idea of Joker stripping for him in the middle of a church.
Of course he also in one scene is attracted to a pair of lobsters so maybe he just goes for anything.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 14, 2019 12:09:50 GMT -5
The worst part is what sparks the whole "Morgana feeling useless" part was a throwaway comment from Ryuji. The same Ryuji Morgana had been ragging on since the moment they met. And then everyone acts like Ryuji should be a mindreader and have consideration for Morgana's issues that he never opened up to the other Phantom Thieves about. Yea, the crew doesn't know about Morgana issues and it isn't like Ryuji isn't acting like his usual clueless self Another issue of them wanting you to feel sorry for someone without it being earned. I don't really feel sorry for Morgana because he whines and shit. He's upset because he feels useless thanks to Futaba being the new navigator but that's on him He wanted to be a big part of the team instead of just looking at it as a team
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 12:22:07 GMT -5
The worst part is what sparks the whole "Morgana feeling useless" part was a throwaway comment from Ryuji. The same Ryuji Morgana had been ragging on since the moment they met. And then everyone acts like Ryuji should be a mindreader and have consideration for Morgana's issues that he never opened up to the other Phantom Thieves about. Yea, the crew doesn't know about Morgana issues and it isn't like Ryuji isn't acting like his usual clueless self Another issue of them wanting you to feel sorry for someone without it being earned. I don't really feel sorry for Morgana because he whines and shit. He's upset because he feels useless thanks to Futaba being the new navigator but that's on him He wanted to be a big part of the team instead of just looking at it as a team It doesn't really help that more than likely you're going to be getting a lot of use out of Morgana in battle anyway because he's the best healer.
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