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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 12, 2019 18:32:07 GMT -5
I actually think the guys that SHOULD be serious that try and fail to do "comedy" (Big E) are far worse and do more damage to themselves I think WWE's brand of comedy is pretty insufferably lame most of the time but singling out Big E who's part of such a hugely over team that's moved tons of merch with their schtick doesn't really track. |
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on May 12, 2019 18:57:03 GMT -5
I’d even be down for some 80s stock heels that belly laugh after every thing they say. Sure guys like Dino Bravo or the Warlord weren’t all that funny, but they at least seemed to be enjoying themselves as they tried to make the lives of others miserable. I can appreciate that.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 19:00:46 GMT -5
I actually think the guys that SHOULD be serious that try and fail to do "comedy" (Big E) are far worse and do more damage to themselves I'm amazed anyone would want to watch a serious Big E. He's too charismatic and too goofy to not express it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 19:26:53 GMT -5
Professional wrestling needs to be a variety show, and intense ultra-serious wrestlers definitely have their place.
Surprised motherf***in' Vader hasn't been mentioned.
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on May 12, 2019 22:38:25 GMT -5
CM Punk thought highly of himself; he was the serious type in all his phases.
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Post by Ganon83 on May 12, 2019 23:06:55 GMT -5
I actually think the guys that SHOULD be serious that try and fail to do "comedy" (Big E) are far worse and do more damage to themselves The moment you make Big E a serious character, he loses all interest everywhere. It depends. With the right story and under specific circumstances it could work. Sadly, WWE does not know how to properly/effectively book talent like that due to how these shows are put together. Case in point: Vince spent months going out on live national television badmouthing Kofi. And after having never gotten direct payback and being made to look like a geek, Kofi won the championship and ratings are falling. Hmm, wonder why? |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 13, 2019 3:54:51 GMT -5
Professional wrestling needs to be a variety show, and intense ultra-serious wrestlers definitely have their place. Surprised motherf***in' Vader hasn't been mentioned. I wouldn't call Vader serious. Intense, scary, but this is more about the SRS Jericho/Swagger kind of serious. Vader had a goofy mask and a smoking helmet, that's a bit far from coming out in a suit stonefaced. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 13, 2019 4:14:55 GMT -5
Case in point: Vince spent months going out on live national television badmouthing Kofi. And after having never gotten direct payback and being made to look like a geek, Kofi won the championship and ratings are falling. Hmm, wonder why? I’d like to hear your argument for how Kingston was made to look a geek despite such great runs in the Chamber, two separate gauntlet matches (one of which he’d won before Vince went “LOL No” like a bitch) and beating one of the greatest wrestlers of our time in arguably the best match of WrestleMania. What wasn’t proven there that punching an old man in the face apparently would have? |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 13, 2019 4:20:15 GMT -5
A lot of people are mentioning Jack Swagger going SRS after winning the World title.
What they should be remembering is that the segment that followed was Shad Gaspard turning on JTG, and becoming yet another super serious heel wearing a suit.
They actually made two Jeri-clones in BACK TO BACK SEGMENTS.
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Post by auph10imitated on May 13, 2019 15:51:20 GMT -5
I worked for Kurt Angle. While I preferred personally his goofy 2000-2001 character. His post head shave and serious bad ass character was just as successful Wasn't shaved head Kurt still goofy for nearly all his run? He was only serious during his last year or so with WWE and that was also his least memorable time with the company too. I’ll be honest I can’t even remember now. He was goofy at first since he wore wigs and head gear. I can’t remember when he got more serious I thought it was like 2003. But he was still goofy as GM in 2004 so it may have came later. Still worked though |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 16:04:40 GMT -5
Professional wrestling needs to be a variety show, and intense ultra-serious wrestlers definitely have their place. Surprised motherf***in' Vader hasn't been mentioned. I wouldn't call Vader serious. Intense, scary, but this is more about the SRS Jericho/Swagger kind of serious. Vader had a goofy mask and a smoking helmet, that's a bit far from coming out in a suit stonefaced. Ok. I missed those runs. Man, it's really difficult to imagine Jericho that way. |
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Post by Cvslfc123 on May 14, 2019 3:57:39 GMT -5
They tried this with The Miz too from what I remember. When he won the WWE Championship.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 16, 2019 16:45:38 GMT -5
Some wrestlers are good at being super-serious, and some aren't. It comes down to their actual personality. If they're not naturally a super serious person, then it' s not a character that should be forced on them
A lot of it depends on their in-ring style. It's better suited for methodical workers, like Arn Anderson and Randy Orton, or intense strikers like Tomohiro Ishii or Katsuyori Shibata when he was active, or Dean Malenko or Lance Storm who have cool looking but no-nonsense technical styles. When Miz tries to be a serious badass, it looks awkward because he's so brilliant at playing that underhanded, sneaky character in his matches.
Not to mention a lot of the top stars and legends have varying degrees of seriousness and humor. Rock, Foley and Cena could bounce between telling jokes, and then convincingly threaten to kick your ass. Randy Savage and Ric Flair more often than not were serious characters, but their characters were intense lunatics. They emoted, they were flamboyant and were basically crazy. Austin was quite serious, but sometimes he'd be in such an outrageous situation like beating Vince with a bedpan, you couldn't help but laugh.
There's a wide spectrum of "being serious" in something naturally absurd as wrestling.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 17, 2019 6:24:19 GMT -5
Some wrestlers are good at being super-serious, and some aren't. It comes down to their actual personality. If they're not naturally a super serious person, then it' s not a character that should be forced on them A lot of it depends on their in-ring style. It's better suited for methodical workers, like Arn Anderson and Randy Orton, or intense strikers like Tomohiro Ishii or Katsuyori Shibata when he was active, or Dean Malenko or Lance Storm who have cool looking but no-nonsense technical styles. When Miz tries to be a serious badass, it looks awkward because he's so brilliant at playing that underhanded, sneaky character in his matches. Not to mention a lot of the top stars and legends have varying degrees of seriousness and humor. Rock, Foley and Cena could bounce between telling jokes, and then convincingly threaten to kick your ass. Randy Savage and Ric Flair more often than not were serious characters, but their characters were intense lunatics. They emoted, they were flamboyant and were basically crazy. Austin was quite serious, but sometimes he'd be in such an outrageous situation like beating Vince with a bedpan, you couldn't help but laugh. There's a wide spectrum of "being serious" in something naturally absurd as wrestling. I think in this case, "serious" is shorthand for "suit-and-tie" and "droning 20-minute condescending monologues". |
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on May 17, 2019 6:35:01 GMT -5
I don't get it either because throughout history the best and most successful heels were brash arrogant charismatic guys who were ridiculous and outrageous. Imagine how less successful the likes of Ric Flair and Ted Dibiase and The Macho King would have been if they were dour serious heels? <iframe width="33.799999999999955" height="4.180000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 33.799999999999955px; height: 4.180000000000007px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_72391062" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="33.799999999999955" height="4.180000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 33.8px; height: 4.18px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1620px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_68573521" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="33.799999999999955" height="4.180000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 33.8px; height: 4.18px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 148px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_23513617" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="33.799999999999955" height="4.180000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 33.8px; height: 4.18px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1620px; top: 148px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_25530395" scrolling="no"></iframe> While I agree with your overall sentiment, I think one has to better define serious. Because Savage was as serious as a heart attack in those lead-in to Wrestlemania promos and it's partially what made them so captivating and some of his most memorable ones. " I see the lust in your eyes!" |
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on May 17, 2019 10:13:31 GMT -5
Some wrestlers are good at being super-serious, and some aren't. It comes down to their actual personality. If they're not naturally a super serious person, then it' s not a character that should be forced on them A lot of it depends on their in-ring style. It's better suited for methodical workers, like Arn Anderson and Randy Orton, or intense strikers like Tomohiro Ishii or Katsuyori Shibata when he was active, or Dean Malenko or Lance Storm who have cool looking but no-nonsense technical styles. When Miz tries to be a serious badass, it looks awkward because he's so brilliant at playing that underhanded, sneaky character in his matches. Not to mention a lot of the top stars and legends have varying degrees of seriousness and humor. Rock, Foley and Cena could bounce between telling jokes, and then convincingly threaten to kick your ass. Randy Savage and Ric Flair more often than not were serious characters, but their characters were intense lunatics. They emoted, they were flamboyant and were basically crazy. Austin was quite serious, but sometimes he'd be in such an outrageous situation like beating Vince with a bedpan, you couldn't help but laugh. There's a wide spectrum of "being serious" in something naturally absurd as wrestling. I think in this case, "serious" is shorthand for "suit-and-tie" and "droning 20-minute condescending monologues". A good counter example is Seth Rollins as a heel. He was serious, sure, but he was a slimey little weasel and a coward. His promos were less “droning” and more him bragging and cackling like a dip. |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 17, 2019 11:09:48 GMT -5
I think in this case, "serious" is shorthand for "suit-and-tie" and "droning 20-minute condescending monologues". A good counter example is Seth Rollins as a heel. He was serious, sure, but he was a slimey little weasel and a coward. His promos were less “droning” and more him bragging and cackling like a dip. And Jericho IMO made his “Anton Chigurh” persona work because he still retained many of his usual Jericho intangibles and general presence while playing that character. When Jack Swagger tried the same approach, it drained all the fun out of him. Generally, audiences will get behind a serious character or a goofier one in any era. But the face can’t be dull, and the heel can’t be dull either. Both characters have to be entertaining and engage the crowd, regardless if they’re playing “good” or “evil.” |
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Post by michael on May 17, 2019 23:35:27 GMT -5
And Jericho IMO made his “Anton Chigurh” persona work because he still retained many of his usual Jericho intangibles and general presence while playing that character. To your point, I think Jericho got it right in that he was so serious that it circled back around to a bit goofy in just how stilted he was. Later attempts by others lacked that charm, and stopped short right at seriously dull. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 0:17:18 GMT -5
The offshoot trope of the SRS Jericlone is the SRS Agressive™ black shirt wearing heel.
Alberto Del Rio, Damien Sandow, etc.
Both take previously interesting and entertaining wrestlers and turn them into boring and lifeless parodies...I think neither is worse than the other, they're both all bad.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 18, 2019 0:24:37 GMT -5
And Jericho IMO made his “Anton Chigurh” persona work because he still retained many of his usual Jericho intangibles and general presence while playing that character. To your point, I think Jericho got it right in that he was so serious that it circled back around to a bit goofy in just how stilted he was. Later attempts by others lacked that charm, and stopped short right at seriously dull. In addition, the previous Jericho was pretty much played out by the time we got to May 2008, and the change was something he needed to keep himself from going stale once the honeymoon period of his return ended. Meanwhile, Jack Swagger had only been on the roster for a couple years ago, and most of that time was spent on the ECW show with half the viewership of Raw or Smackdown. He didn't need a gimmick change, especially since he was only just beginning to hit his stride. Swagger should have gotten even more cocky and braggadocios when he won the World title, and not changed everything that got him to the dance. Also, Big Show going out and wrecking all of Jack Swagger's trophies and achievements was one of the big babyface dick moves I've ever seen. But I would have probably enjoyed that segment if Jack had been full douche in that segment. He was still trying to do make it work, but imagine if he was able to talk about how the Swaggie "tastes like freedom" in full on jock mode. |
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