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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 17, 2019 19:22:55 GMT -5
I have a hard time just seeing this as more of the continuing effort of Dana and WWE to whitewash the legacy of an awful person because the Warrior is a good brand for them. i understand I may be cynical and do understand that others see things differently.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Jun 17, 2019 20:53:25 GMT -5
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jun 17, 2019 23:42:40 GMT -5
A picture speaks a thousand words Warrior's last full day alive and it was about love and reconciliation.
Also, his last match was against a known LGBQT+ wrestler, which wasn't too long after the college speech (a couple of years I think)
I'm convinced that the college speech was more a work to get a reaction than his true feelings. He's a carny wrestler, who knows how to stir shit up, whether he did that well or not is debatable. Here's a video documentary of Warrior putting out his thoughts just before that infamous speech.
I don't get the argument that he never apologized for his views. Perhaps he wanted to get Hall of Fame out of the way and was signed on to do the work Dana Warrior is currently doing.
Dying suddenly stopped all that.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 17, 2019 23:52:09 GMT -5
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Warrior thought at the end. This is no longer about him as a man or human being. He's gone, he's done with this part of the dance. He no longer has a say in the matter.
Dana - for whatever reason she is choosing (and let's be real, not ONE of us knows what's going on in her head) - has taken an image that she rightfully inherited and is saying it is no longer an image that symbolizes hate. Her husband's thoughts, desires and/or wishes are irrelevant. It's hers now. And she's doing something positive with it.
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Paul
Vegeta
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Post by Paul on Jun 18, 2019 0:31:35 GMT -5
Mostly I just feel really bad for Dana (for a lot of reasons) and I'm going to assume she's just trying to do good things and thinks that she can do that in this way.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 18, 2019 1:25:06 GMT -5
Well this is a complicated one, isn't it? As a straight/cis guy I can't speak from the point of view of the potentially impacted community, so I can only go by my admittedly narrow viewpoint.
I don't think Dana Warrior has any negative intentions here, and her trying to use a brand she inherited to send a positive message is a good thing. However, Warrior's actual history makes the wielding of that brand more than a little complicated. Did he change before he died? Maybe he did, but we don't know. The last we know of his public stances on issues like this was a whole lot of really, really bad stuff, and while I understand the idea of taking something that could've been a negative symbol and reclaiming it into a positive, there's another side of this that makes it tough, at least from my perspective.
Namely, the issue is turning the Warrior logo into a Pride-friendly brand without ever having addressed what he said and did publicly in life on LGBT+ matters, among other issues. However positive the cause, it's hard to avoid that this is at heart about creating a product to sell for profit, and entering that into the market without addressing the enormously problematic issues behind it just feels really off to me. If Dana were to address it (I get why she doesn't, but still) and if the Warrior logo was then deployed in only a charitable manner, I think I'd feel less strange about it, but this is a logo that WWE will also slap onto any and all products they produce, from regular t-shirts to designer socks, and associating the logo with Pride feels like it's misleading consumers who aren't aware of the very real issues people have with that kind of utilization.
Basically, it's like that Stephanie McMahon retweet about philanthropy being the future of PR and all that; it's nice to get the positives out of something like this, and obviously I'm in no position to tell anyone in the LGBT+ community who sees positives here to not do that, but I very much get the position that this is cynical on some level, even if Dana herself means well.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Jun 18, 2019 2:19:44 GMT -5
I don't mind Dana expressing this, she doesn't have to echo the shitty opinions of her husband, but using his iconography comes across poorly to me.
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Post by Prince Petty on Jun 18, 2019 2:51:43 GMT -5
I think it’s a fantastic tweet. Good on her EDIT: also thank god I avoid Twitter. It’s the worst place in the world. Nobody can say anything without getting crap for it. It’s a nice gesture during Pride Month and people are unacceptable of it unless she at the same time condemns the dead father of her children. I friggen loathe twitter The sense of entitlement and self-righteousness that comes with having that instant access to anyone is absolutely toxic. For all the good things that Twitter and other social media can offer, it seems like there are a dozen negative things. I didn't like Warrior, and have significant issues with the lionization of him that inevitably came from him burying his differences with the WWE, but that's my business, and not something I'd feel like e-shouting at the man's widow (shouting it at you lot on this forum is different, of course). Ultimately, wrestling is a business of opportunistic carnies who will always try to figure out how they can make the most money and gain the most attention. Dana Warrior using this iconography to appeal to identify with LGBTQ people is fine by me, and I have no problem believing she's sincere in her views. But, like all things with the WWE, it was probably a business decision, rather than a moral stance.
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Post by government mule on Jun 18, 2019 2:59:41 GMT -5
This isn't necessarily for us who know of Warrior and his views, there is going to be whole generations of people and new fans who are going to see images like Dana's and recognise the acceptance it is trying to portray and not know the disregard Warrior had.
The further we move away from Warrior and his views, the better and this goes some way to remove/reduce the negativity, which can only be a good thing, surely.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 18, 2019 4:28:20 GMT -5
She's not her husband, she's not responsible for his beliefs and if she's genuine about supporting LGBTQ, more power to her.
Warrior was a bigot, in much the same way AJ, Lars and Brock are, but there is no evidence that Dana or their daughter have similar beliefs so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to use hus trademarks as they see fit. Better to use them like this than let them become a symbol of hate.
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Paul
Vegeta
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Post by Paul on Jun 18, 2019 9:06:25 GMT -5
This isn't necessarily for us who know of Warrior and his views, there is going to be whole generations of people and new fans who are going to see images like Dana's and recognise the acceptance it is trying to portray and not know the disregard Warrior had. The further we move away from Warrior and his views, the better and this goes some way to remove/reduce the negativity, which can only be a good thing, surely. Well said!
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Post by Cyno on Jun 18, 2019 9:48:56 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with them trying to use Warrior symbols for positive purposes. My problem has always been with them completely whitewashing and lionizing his legacy. There's moving on from the past and there's pretending it never happened and WWE always does the latter with Warrior. This is a company that gave an award named after Warrior to a kid with terminal cancer when in life, Warrior mocked and ridiculed people with terminal cancer and stood up a Make-a-Wish kid at a WWF show who only wanted to meet his hero. Or that he worked as a speaker for an organization that was known to associate with Neo-Nazis and other antisemites (and as a Jewish person, that's about something that's near impossible for me to forgive). Yes, Dana said he changed near the end of his life, but we can only take her word for it since he died before he ever tried to make amends with the millions of people he has directly or indirectly insulted or dehumanized. And the cynic in me is skeptical that she's only saying that to protect the brand.
It's the same fakeness that WWE shows when trying to show themselves off with how progressive they are with women's wrestling breaking the glass ceiling when they installed that glass ceiling to begin with and continue to do propaganda shows for a country where women have little rights.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 18, 2019 9:56:57 GMT -5
She's not her husband, she's not responsible for his beliefs and if she's genuine about supporting LGBTQ, more power to her. Warrior was a bigot, in much the same way AJ, Lars and Brock are, but there is no evidence that Dana or their daughter have similar beliefs so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to use hus trademarks as they see fit. Better to use them like this than let them become a symbol of hate. Pretty much my view on this
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jun 18, 2019 10:45:18 GMT -5
I see both sides to the argument. I believe she meant well though.
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PKO
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Post by PKO on Jun 18, 2019 10:47:23 GMT -5
Interesting to read people’s opinions on this. As another member of the LGBT+ community, I have mixed feelings on the whole situation.
As we gain more acceptance in the world, how companies and organisations treat Pride has become a hot topic in the gay media. Particularly this year, I’ve seen a lot of conversations about looking behind the rainbow flag banner or positive tweets that companies send out. How have they treated the LGBT community in the past? Is their message more about the optics or a genuine celebration?
My immediate reaction to seeing the image was an eye roll. It comes off incredibly tone deaf. The time when Warrior was saying all his horrific things about gay people lined up with when I was first struggling with my sexuality as a young teen. And I did struggle. Despite growing up in a time when it was becoming more and more accepted, it was still the negative that stood out to me the most. Wrestling was often an escape from the negative going on in my life, so it made the words sting that bit more.
Using the iconography of the Warrior branding for good, changing and evolving its meaning (like others here have said)...I can see the idea behind that. But whenever I see the Warrior face paint I am still reminded of his words of hate, and I can’t go from that to having it used to celebrate Pride. A big reason why; because the whole “changing and evolving its meaning” idea is a positive assumption. For me, the issue has not been addressed adequately enough by Dana. When the Vice Sports article came out about Warriors hateful comments, there was a short statement about how she wouldn’t speak ill of him and how he had evolved before his death. For me personally, that isn’t enough.
Seeing the Warrior face paint used to celebrate Pride doesn’t feel like a celebration, it feels cheap. It feels like branding. It feels corporate.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 18, 2019 13:13:02 GMT -5
I don't doubt she's sincere, but she's using imagery associated with her husband who was, as far as I'm aware, an unapologetic homophobe, among many of his grotesque traits.
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Post by xCompackx on Jun 18, 2019 13:32:41 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with them trying to use Warrior symbols for positive purposes. My problem has always been with them completely whitewashing and lionizing his legacy. There's moving on from the past and there's pretending it never happened and WWE always does the latter with Warrior. This is a company that gave an award named after Warrior to a kid with terminal cancer when in life, Warrior mocked and ridiculed people with terminal cancer and stood up a Make-a-Wish kid at a WWF show who only wanted to meet his hero. Or that he worked as a speaker for an organization that was known to associate with Neo-Nazis and other antisemites (and as a Jewish person, that's about something that's near impossible for me to forgive). Yes, Dana said he changed near the end of his life, but we can only take her word for it since he died before he ever tried to make amends with the millions of people he has directly or indirectly insulted or dehumanized. And the cynic in me is skeptical that she's only saying that to protect the brand. It's the same fakeness that WWE shows when trying to show themselves off with how progressive they are with women's wrestling breaking the glass ceiling when they installed that glass ceiling to begin with and continue to do propaganda shows for a country where women have little rights. Everything surrounding the Warrior Award will probably always leave a bad taste in my mouth, not only because it's not even what the dude wanted it to be, but because of how clearly terrible a person Warrior was as a person. Did he change later in life? Maybe, and I hope he did. But I just wish they named it after someone who didn't spread such hatred. As for the topic, I give Dana credit for trying to make something positive out of the character, especially after Warrior's all-too-public homophobia, but it's very difficult to take it as genuine knowing everything that's out there about Warrior's views.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jun 18, 2019 13:38:37 GMT -5
Warrior is dead. What's the point in still hating the guy for his viewpoints at this point? It doesn't matter anymore and he's not here to defend himself or explain or apologize or learn how to be a better, more thoughtful person. The past is in the past and Dana is trying to focus on the here and the now and make the future better, so I think we should give her a fair chance and not let her husband's past get in the way of what her current focus is.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jun 18, 2019 13:39:57 GMT -5
I don't doubt she's sincere, but she's using imagery associated with her husband who was, as far as I'm aware, an unapologetic homophobe, among many of his grotesque traits. The meaning of symbols and images can change and evolve over time from one thing to another- from something bad to something positive.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 18, 2019 13:48:11 GMT -5
Warrior is dead. What's the point in still hating the guy for his viewpoints at this point? It doesn't matter anymore and he's not here to defend himself or explain or apologize or learn how to be a better, more thoughtful person. The past is in the past and Dana is trying to focus on the here and the now and make the future better, so I think we should give her a fair chance and not let her husband's past get in the way of what her current focus is. I don't waste time hating him, but I also don't forget the disgusting things he stood for. And that's what WWE and his widow seemingly want us to do by whitewashing his legacy.
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