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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 18, 2019 14:17:05 GMT -5
I don't doubt she's sincere, but she's using imagery associated with her husband who was, as far as I'm aware, an unapologetic homophobe, among many of his grotesque traits. The meaning of symbols and images can change and evolve over time from one thing to another- from something bad to something positive. A change that would not be necessary had her husband not degraded the initially positive symbol of a colourful, larger than life, wrestling character to begin with.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 18, 2019 16:38:54 GMT -5
I can also see people arguing that the change from a negative to a positive symbol isn't fully possible without more of a conversation within the impacted community. If such a change were to occur organically over time as part of the discourse within the LGBT+ community I think people would feel more at ease about it, whereas there's the feeling here of, again, corporate cynicism, even if that's not Dana's personal intention.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,417
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Post by FinalGwen on Jun 18, 2019 16:46:14 GMT -5
Fake woke brands don't make the world work.
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Post by edgestar on Jun 18, 2019 17:07:11 GMT -5
He said these things, and (at that time, at least), had a negative attitude about life. Possibly after meeting Dana, and having a family with her, his views softened. The guy isn't alive anymore, so we'll never truly know his stance. Dana posing with the paint was her way of showing her "warrior spirit" (even if it's seen as tone deaf). She's trying to show support, for a sometimes ridiculed portion of society. I'm straight, but I certainly appreciate her support, and wouldn't be hurtful to those people.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,949
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Post by chazraps on Jun 18, 2019 17:25:21 GMT -5
He said these things, and (at that time, at least), had a negative attitude about life. Possibly after meeting Dana, and having a family with her, his views softened. The guy isn't alive anymore, so we'll never truly know his stance. Dana posing with the paint was her way of showing her "warrior spirit" (even if it's seen as tone deaf). She's trying to show support, for a sometimes ridiculed portion of society. I'm straight, but I certainly appreciate her support, and wouldn't be hurtful to those people. There's evidence to show this isn't a possibility - deadspin.com/the-ultimate-warrior-is-not-a-gay-pride-mascot-1835536799
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Tiiulicious
Bubba Ho-Tep
Not much upstairs, but what a staircase! :)
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Post by Tiiulicious on Jun 18, 2019 17:25:48 GMT -5
He said these things, and (at that time, at least), had a negative attitude about life. Possibly after meeting Dana, and having a family with her, his views softened. The guy isn't alive anymore, so we'll never truly know his stance. Dana posing with the paint was her way of showing her "warrior spirit" (even if it's seen as tone deaf). She's trying to show support, for a sometimes ridiculed portion of society. I'm straight, but I certainly appreciate her support, and wouldn't be hurtful to those people. He married Dana in 1999. The video of him telling university students that 'Queering doesn't make the world go around' was in 2005. So, there's that. Warrior's last homophobic posts came in 2008, meaning he'd already been married to Dana for almost a decade. In order to use the Warrior paint as a gesture of acceptance, she would have to acknowledge her husband's horrible comments instead of whitewashing them.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Jun 18, 2019 17:38:52 GMT -5
Another queer person here. Warrior was one of my favorites as a kid and I could probably write a full-length essay on how jarring/upsetting/disappointing it was to learn the extent of his comments as I got older, how I'm still dealing with it, something something never meet your heroes something, etc.
I'll try to articulate it the best I can today: Toxic people are certainly allowed, and welcome, to change themselves for the better. Symbols can change their meaning. Things can be reclaimed. Everything in this world is clay and can be reshaped into something else. However, that doesn't entitle anyone or anything to forgiveness, and LGBT folks are under no obligation to forgive Warrior or his iconography just because Dana said so. I'm not doubting her conviction just yet but if she thinks the community is just suddenly gonna be with it, she's mistaken. That's not how it works. If you're a queer person and see something positive in this, that's great. You're not wrong or foolish for thinking that way. But if you don't, that's entirely understandable and it's totally okay if you never do. You don't have to accept anything.
Of course, there's also the matter of brands appropriating Pride for profit, but Lorde knows I've spent the entire month so far thinking about that.
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Post by evilone on Jun 18, 2019 17:46:45 GMT -5
someone else LGBT here (not that it makes my opinion any more important) Thing is with Warrior, they are celebrating him with the Warrior award, besides the homophobic comments, he referred to Droz as the cripple, wished death on Bobby Heenan, after his cancer diagnosis (and thats ignoring comments about Hurricane Katrina victims as well as commenting on Heath Ledger's death), guy was infamously a POS for years. But It's like a lot of WWE decisions, sometimes you just have to let it go over your head, maybe roll your eyes about it or maybe take "pride" in Dana celebrating and issuing his image in something he would have hated That's wrestling, the bottom of the barrel form of entertainment. If it was comprised of honorable and enlighten people the product wouldn't be much fun at all. So looking for some logic in wrestling or being offended by some idiot that we enjoy in barbaric fights, who have said something offensive makes absolutely zero sense. Just ask yourself this: would you ever be able to pull off Warrior gimmick every single night without having some Warrior in yourself? Absolutely not. These people are not far of from what they represent in the ring and expecting from them to have sensible and rational points of view on such subjects is irrational. Wrestling is dog eats dog world and only the biggest politicking scumbags with the dirtiest tactics find their way to the top and keep that spot. Another question: Would you ever be buddies with one of them? Hell I would not and that's why I don't care what his opinion is on any subject other than wrestling industry. Actually I just like to see him beat his ass in the ring every time so I can blow off some steam and go back to my work. And I am very thankful to him and many others for that experience.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 31,943
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Post by Perd on Jun 18, 2019 18:03:07 GMT -5
Even if she’s sincere, it’s strange to try to make Warrior iconography into a symbol for progress and equality. He very well might’ve had a change of heart. But we don’t know that he did. What we do know is, that when given a public forum, he used it to say “queering don’t make the world work.”
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Post by Macho Pichu on Jun 18, 2019 18:07:20 GMT -5
Well, It's been rumored that their marriage was kinda falling apart by the end. Mostly due to financial trouble, one of the reasons why Warrior got back in good graces with the company in the first place. If that's the case, and she's doing all of these good things in his name as some form of revenge, good on her. There was always going to be a subset of people who remember Warrior only as a wrestler and were unfamiliar with his life outside the ring, and those people would likely look back on him with positivity. You may as well harness that and spread a good message with it, and promote things he didn't like as a backhanded middle finger.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 18:10:06 GMT -5
I’m a straight male, so I won’t tell others how to feel, but I echo the sentiments that say it comes off tone deaf and insincere. That’s not a knock on Dana necessarily, I don’t know what her views are, but there are two things we do know: 1) the WWE views social progress and philanthropy as a marketing tool, and 2) Warrior was so bigoted that he went to a college as a motivational speaker and spewed hate speech. Dana is right in the middle of that, so she’s in a tough spot regardless.
I don’t think a man as passionate about his views like Warrior would marry someone with the exact opposite views but I don’t know Dana so I won’t comment. Maybe she’s sincere. I don’t know.
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Post by realist on Jun 18, 2019 18:31:52 GMT -5
I’m a straight male, so I won’t tell others how to feel, but I echo the sentiments that say it comes off tone deaf and insincere. That’s not a knock on Dana necessarily, I don’t know what her views are, but there are two things we do know: 1) the WWE views social progress and philanthropy as a marketing tool, and 2) Warrior was so bigoted that he went to a college as a motivational speaker and spewed hate speech. Dana is right in the middle of that, so she’s in a tough spot regardless. I don’t think a man as passionate about his views like Warrior would marry someone with the exact opposite views but I don’t know Dana so I won’t comment. Maybe she’s sincere. I don’t know. Damn Fine Speech, damn fine speech.
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Post by avenger on Jun 18, 2019 19:15:50 GMT -5
What's the extra IA at the end? Just when I think I know all the lingo you kids use, you go and change it up on me. Intersex and Asexual, usually. Some people use it for "ally" but I've always seen that as somewhat tone-deaf. Granted, part of this can also be blurry for the straight children of gay parents who can and often do experience the same discrimination their parents do.
People who claim that the A stands for "ally", aren't allies. Erasing part of the community makes you the opposite of an ally.
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Post by eJm on Jun 18, 2019 19:27:05 GMT -5
I’m a straight male, so I won’t tell others how to feel, but I echo the sentiments that say it comes off tone deaf and insincere. That’s not a knock on Dana necessarily, I don’t know what her views are, but there are two things we do know: 1) the WWE views social progress and philanthropy as a marketing tool, and 2) Warrior was so bigoted that he went to a college as a motivational speaker and spewed hate speech. Dana is right in the middle of that, so she’s in a tough spot regardless. I don’t think a man as passionate about his views like Warrior would marry someone with the exact opposite views but I don’t know Dana so I won’t comment. Maybe she’s sincere. I don’t know. I think with me, as a straight male, that what gets to me is the fact she’s doing this stuff through a WWE promoted thing. Not just because they’ve set out to whitewash what Warrior said (which they have to do or else it’d be something brought up more on the mainstream) but also any claims of them being any way above PR caring about the LGBT+ community went out the window the moment they signed a deal with Saudi Arabia. Other stuff they’ve done on their own and can at least learn from and realize in hindsight how bad it was but...yeah, it’s hard to think of it as anything other than jumping on a bandwagon. If she did it on her own and promoted it and it had nothing to do with a WWE photo shoot, I’d have an easier time believing it. It’d still be shady as hell but still.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 18, 2019 21:19:34 GMT -5
I don't doubt she's sincere, but she's using imagery associated with her husband who was, as far as I'm aware, an unapologetic homophobe, among many of his grotesque traits. The meaning of symbols and images can change and evolve over time from one thing to another- from something bad to something positive. As far as taking symbols of homophobia and turning them into supportive symbols, I'll say hi to Godwin and leave this here:
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Post by Yacht Persona on Jun 19, 2019 0:39:45 GMT -5
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Warrior thought at the end. This is no longer about him as a man or human being. He's gone, he's done with this part of the dance. He no longer has a say in the matter. Dana - for whatever reason she is choosing (and let's be real, not ONE of us knows what's going on in her head) - has taken an image that she rightfully inherited and is saying it is no longer an image that symbolizes hate. Her husband's thoughts, desires and/or wishes are irrelevant. It's hers now. And she's doing something positive with it. I agree with this sentiment more than any of the others and couldn't have said it better myself. All I'll add is that those people who think they're being courageous or are being self-congratulatory about dog-piling onto Dana Warrior need to get a clue. It's actually more courageous what she is doing knowing backlash is incoming. Those attacking her are doing so from safe positions and should perhaps exercise more compassion.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,417
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Post by FinalGwen on Jun 19, 2019 1:21:46 GMT -5
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Warrior thought at the end. This is no longer about him as a man or human being. He's gone, he's done with this part of the dance. He no longer has a say in the matter. Dana - for whatever reason she is choosing (and let's be real, not ONE of us knows what's going on in her head) - has taken an image that she rightfully inherited and is saying it is no longer an image that symbolizes hate. Her husband's thoughts, desires and/or wishes are irrelevant. It's hers now. And she's doing something positive with it. I agree with this sentiment more than any of the others and couldn't have said it better myself. All I'll add is that those people who think they're being courageous or are being self-congratulatory about dog-piling onto Dana Warrior need to get a clue. It's actually more courageous what she is doing knowing backlash is incoming. Those attacking her are doing so from safe positions and should perhaps exercise more compassion. Yes, LGBT people who famously have a very safe time on the internet and never receive backlash or criticism for anything. ( )
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jun 19, 2019 1:59:02 GMT -5
Straight guy here who remembers seeing his political diatribes and homophonic rants and being like “What the f*** yo”.
It’s..an odd choice. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt the woman meant good, but it’s also true some things are better thought over and done differently or not done whatsoever at all.
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Post by Yacht Persona on Jun 19, 2019 5:08:29 GMT -5
I agree with this sentiment more than any of the others and couldn't have said it better myself. All I'll add is that those people who think they're being courageous or are being self-congratulatory about dog-piling onto Dana Warrior need to get a clue. It's actually more courageous what she is doing knowing backlash is incoming. Those attacking her are doing so from safe positions and should perhaps exercise more compassion. Yes, LGBT people who famously have a very safe time on the internet and never receive backlash or criticism for anything. ( ) Not what I'm saying. She was dog-piled onto by media outlets and their supporters in what could be considered a public shaming. It's safe because most media outlets are on the right side of history with LGBTQ issues. A public shaming in this fashion is not the same as anonymous internet trolls harrassing people on social media. Not that public shamings aren't necessary from to time, but this seems excessive to me.
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4TheGlory
Vegeta
The Fun One At Parties
Posts: 9,745
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Post by 4TheGlory on Jun 19, 2019 6:47:34 GMT -5
Got to learn to forgive people.
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