Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,258
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 21, 2019 19:22:23 GMT -5
Re: Taylor Wilde : 2008 - works a crappy part-time job at Sunglasses Hut. May 2008 - gets hired by TNA. June 2008 - wrestles her first match, then, later on, becomes the new champ. July/August 2008 - Works half a dozen tv matches (including a couple of 10/20 seconds wins over Velvet), two PPV matches, and ten house show matches or so. Decides it's enough work for her to drop her part time job. Sept 2008 - Gives the infamous interview where she explained that, "I stopped working crappy day jobs a month ago". Sept 2010 - Someone unearthes the interview, and Cagesideseats uses the quote as a proof of TNA's appalling treatment of its talent. Basically, Taylor kept her side-job for a couple of months after getting hired, and somehow, this got turned into overblown LOLTNA fodder still used 10 years later as a proof TNA was incompetent and too cheap to pay their athletes properly. *shrug* Cagesideseats getting something wrong.... I am not surprised. Shocked anyone believes anything from that site. It was created by a cabal of IWC trolls to troll the dumber members of the IWC.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 21, 2019 20:00:40 GMT -5
How dare people work a job to pay their bills. El oh el at them. At least personally, it's not that. It's that these people were employed by the number 2 promotion in North America, maybe the world at points, owned by a rich oil company. And they couldn't be bothered paying them enough that they could live off of it. Nothing against the people, making the most of their situation, but reflects disgracefully on the company. If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with?. Wealthy investors doesn't mean there is a lot of profit.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 21, 2019 20:07:12 GMT -5
Not TNA and I really don’t know the era, but George “The Animal” Steele was a teacher. Once in a while a kid would ask if he the Animal and he would reply “You don’t think I’m that ugly, do you?” Bit of a different situation. Steele was a teacher first and foremost. During the VJM years, he only worked for WWWF during the summers. When Vinnie Mac tried to make him take on a full-time schedule, he played with it for about three years then said "nah, I'm good." Re: Taylor Wilde : 2008 - works a crappy part-time job at Sunglasses Hut. May 2008 - gets hired by TNA. June 2008 - wrestles her first match, then, later on, becomes the new champ. July/August 2008 - Works half a dozen tv matches (including a couple of 10/20 seconds wins over Velvet), two PPV matches, and ten house show matches or so. Decides it's enough work for her to drop her part time job. Sept 2008 - Gives the infamous interview where she explained that, "I stopped working crappy day jobs a month ago". Sept 2010 - Someone unearthes the interview, and Cagesideseats uses the quote as a proof of TNA's appalling treatment of its talent. Basically, Taylor kept her side-job for a couple of months after getting hired, and somehow, this got turned into overblown LOLTNA fodder still used 10 years later as a proof TNA was incompetent and too cheap to pay their athletes properly. *shrug* Cagesideseats getting something wrong.... I am not surprised. Shocked anyone believes anything from that site. It was created by a cabal of IWC trolls to troll the dumber members of the IWC. Well...except she wasn't the only one. And let's put that in perspective as well. She gave the "I stopped working crappy day jobs a month ago" interview in September, which would make August or so when she quit the Hut. She was TNA Knockouts Champion two months before that. Won it in her fourth match with the company (third after she officially signed). So the TNA Knockouts Champion had to keep her day job for two months after that glorious win. The champion of the "Number 2" promotion of the time. And again, she wasn't the only one.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 21, 2019 20:07:59 GMT -5
At least personally, it's not that. It's that these people were employed by the number 2 promotion in North America, maybe the world at points, owned by a rich oil company. And they couldn't be bothered paying them enough that they could live off of it. Nothing against the people, making the most of their situation, but reflects disgracefully on the company. If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with?. Wealthy investors doesn't mean there is a lot of profit. ....are you serious? Really?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 21, 2019 20:13:25 GMT -5
At least personally, it's not that. It's that these people were employed by the number 2 promotion in North America, maybe the world at points, owned by a rich oil company. And they couldn't be bothered paying them enough that they could live off of it. Nothing against the people, making the most of their situation, but reflects disgracefully on the company. If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with?. Wealthy investors doesn't mean there is a lot of profit. They never made a dime but still certain people like Sting, Nash and Angle got taken care off while others starved.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 21, 2019 20:18:49 GMT -5
If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with?. Wealthy investors doesn't mean there is a lot of profit. They never made a dime but still certain people like Sting, Nash and Angle got taken care off while others starved. You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 21, 2019 20:58:06 GMT -5
They never made a dime but still certain people like Sting, Nash and Angle got taken care off while others starved. You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income. So what you're saying between this post and your last one, is that if a company isn't making money, they shouldn't pay their workers. So if Target went into the red this year, every cashier, stocker and greeter will be expected to show up and work for free because, oh well, we're not making a profit so you get to eat it. I don't know what kind of job you have, and I don't want to know. But understand that whatever f'ed up system you have going on, that's not how most businesses work.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 21, 2019 21:01:18 GMT -5
They never made a dime but still certain people like Sting, Nash and Angle got taken care off while others starved. You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income. I’m not saying pay everyone the same but if you’re working for the second biggest company in the world you shouldn’t need food stamps or having to work at a deli.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 21, 2019 22:22:08 GMT -5
You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income. I’m not saying pay everyone the same but if you’re working for the second biggest company in the world you shouldn’t need food stamps or having to work at a deli. No I'm saying get paid to your worth. Second by a company that ran a deficit by all accounts. Now checks should never bounce and what is owed should be paid.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 21, 2019 22:25:28 GMT -5
You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income. So what you're saying between this post and your last one, is that if a company isn't making money, they shouldn't pay their workers. So if Target went into the red this year, every cashier, stocker and greeter will be expected to show up and work for free because, oh well, we're not making a profit so you get to eat it. I don't know what kind of job you have, and I don't want to know. But understand that whatever f'ed up system you have going on, that's not how most businesses work. You and I have different opinions which is great, helps see another side, as a moderator I figured You'd be more open to dialog maybe I could learn something or you could, but apparently not. No big deal. And yes the people that produce do make more money's that's how a business does work. That's my opinion, you are welcome to yours.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Grimlock
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 14,951
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 22, 2019 0:59:20 GMT -5
They never made a dime but still certain people like Sting, Nash and Angle got taken care off while others starved. You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income. However, I assume you've earned your way to making that money. But what if the company said "ok we're bringing someone in from elsewhere earning 10 times what you are" then when business didn't go up enough to pay everyone, they tell you there's not enough money for you, but they've gotten paid? Angle was one thing, he did bring their biggest buyrate... Alongside Joe who by comparison they dicked around for years. It didn't matter if someone was earning it or not, big name, big contract. They do nothing? Too bad they're taking the money. Clearly it was a shitty system, because even taking away, you know, compassion and thinking that people should be able to live off their job... They failed. Hard. They ended up a cautionary tail and went from number 2 to an indy with TV after, well we all remember them ending up in a random warehouse, being chased for taxes, taping somewhere that didn't even have bathrooms, having to be saved at the 11th hour multiple times, going from Spike to wherever the hell they are now, poisoning an international market that could have kept them afloat. But hey, Booker T got a vacation, his own belt so it's all good.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 22, 2019 6:35:54 GMT -5
It happens all the time in business, bring in a top sales person, someone with a feast track record., Because they've proven themselves.. My work tried it, didn't work out well, they lost money and let him go. Yes I earned my way. 20 years on the industry. I jumped on a opportunity, was and am the lowest paid by percentage in tbd position, yet make the most money. I don't begrudge people that make more, have a better pay plan. Get it while you can. I'll just out perform you and make more on what I'm given.
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Post by dangerousdanpotato on Jun 22, 2019 7:00:43 GMT -5
Spare a thought for poor Bray Wyatt right now in WWE, having to host a preschool kids TV show to make ends meet. How demeaning.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 22, 2019 9:26:34 GMT -5
So what you're saying between this post and your last one, is that if a company isn't making money, they shouldn't pay their workers. So if Target went into the red this year, every cashier, stocker and greeter will be expected to show up and work for free because, oh well, we're not making a profit so you get to eat it. I don't know what kind of job you have, and I don't want to know. But understand that whatever f'ed up system you have going on, that's not how most businesses work. You and I have different opinions which is great, helps see another side, as a moderator I figured You'd be more open to dialog maybe I could learn something or you could, but apparently not. No big deal. And yes the people that produce do make more money's that's how a business does work. That's my opinion, you are welcome to yours. Nah, let's go back to this: If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with? Sony has experienced losses six of the last seven years. Sprint loses between a billion and two each year. Amazon, valued at $138 billion at the time of the writing I'm taking this from, isn't turning a profit. Your statement point blank says that since those companies aren't turning a profit, they shouldn't be paying the thousands of workers they have. And no, the people that produce do make more money thing is absolute BS. I have people in my corporate chain who make way way way more than any in the stores make and they do literally NOTHING. The people who actually do all the work and keep the company going make peanuts in comparison.
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Post by sfvega on Jun 22, 2019 10:05:05 GMT -5
You and I have different opinions which is great, helps see another side, as a moderator I figured You'd be more open to dialog maybe I could learn something or you could, but apparently not. No big deal. And yes the people that produce do make more money's that's how a business does work. That's my opinion, you are welcome to yours. Nah, let's go back to this: If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with? Sony has experienced losses six of the last seven years. Sprint loses between a billion and two each year. Amazon, valued at $138 billion at the time of the writing I'm taking this from, isn't turning a profit. Your statement point blank says that since those companies aren't turning a profit, they shouldn't be paying the thousands of workers they have. And no, the people that produce do make more money thing is absolute BS. I have people in my corporate chain who make way way way more than any in the stores make and they do literally NOTHING. The people who actually do all the work and keep the company going make peanuts in comparison. Amazon itself is turning a huge profit, they are just funneling their money into buying everything under the sun as subsidiaries, so that is a bit misleading. I don't think he means they shouldn't pay people, that's illegal. I think he means that it's hard to pay people enough for it to be a standalone living wage when the business is operating at a loss. Which is fine for huge businesses, like the ones you're mentioning because they can just borrow against their previous value. Like KMart at the end or Sears was bleeding money, and could still make their payroll but ECW couldn't. Very different situations financially, despite the fact that Sears is/will be unequivocally in worse shape when it died. I think it sucks that TNA mismanaged what they got to the point that someone like literally any WWE reject or the Nasty Boys can pay their bills but people that bust their butts can't. But that's America. Businesses always squeeze the little guy to make slightly more profit even for businesses that are very far into the black. I'm making double working at Amazon what I was working at Applebee's, where I had to work another 30 hour-a-week job to make ends meet. You'd think that working for such a big wrestling company would preclude them from being from working day jobs, but clearly it didn't. Makes me glad that they failed so spectacularly.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,258
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 22, 2019 10:40:33 GMT -5
You're right they invested in proven people to try and generate interest and income. Angle popped the biggest buy rate with Joe. That one worked, others didn't. Spike helped with some of those contracts to try and build the brand. You're only worth what'd you bring in. In my work there are six people that do my job. Two of us make good money the others don't. Why? We contribute 55% of the revenue for the company. So should the guy who makes 5% of the revenue make as much?. Wrestling is a business, it's there to make money, not provide for the ones who don't generate income. I’m not saying pay everyone the same but if you’re working for the second biggest company in the world you shouldn’t need food stamps or having to work at a deli. TNA was never the second biggest company in the world. CMLL and NJPW were always bigger. TNA wasn't even the second biggest company in NA. Since CMLL exists.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Jun 22, 2019 13:15:15 GMT -5
Also important to keep in mind, TNA once had the Young Bucks, who flat out said that they had to miss shows and tapings while they were the TNA Tag Team Champions because TNA wasn't paying them enough for them to fly between California and Florida without losing money.
The Young Bucks.
The most in-demand tag team in the US indy scene for the last decade or so.
Two of the guys behind the most anticipated debuting wrestling promotion since the fall of WCW.
They weren't getting paid enough to fly out to Orlando or house shows while they were tag champs for TNA.
That's how badly talent was being paid.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 15:36:01 GMT -5
At least personally, it's not that. It's that these people were employed by the number 2 promotion in North America, maybe the world at points, owned by a rich oil company. And they couldn't be bothered paying them enough that they could live off of it. Nothing against the people, making the most of their situation, but reflects disgracefully on the company. If the company isn't making profit what are they supposed to pay people with?. Wealthy investors doesn't mean there is a lot of profit. Agreed. Considering TNA in the Carter years lost millions, the last thing they needed to do was pay people more. The reason the Carters lost millions was because of overpaying. Yes, the wrong people, while underpaying the others. But they absolutely shouldn't have been SPENDING MORE.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 22, 2019 16:16:18 GMT -5
I’m not saying pay everyone the same but if you’re working for the second biggest company in the world you shouldn’t need food stamps or having to work at a deli. TNA was never the second biggest company in the world. CMLL and NJPW were always bigger. TNA wasn't even the second biggest company in NA. Since CMLL exists. I don’t know about cmll but New Japan almost croaked in the early to mid 2000s. TNA was definitely bigger than them at one point.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 16:20:10 GMT -5
TNA was never the second biggest company in the world. CMLL and NJPW were always bigger. TNA wasn't even the second biggest company in NA. Since CMLL exists. I don’t know about cmll but New Japan almost croaked in the early to mid 2000s. TNA was definitely bigger than them at one point. Definitely not in terms of turning a profit. The "successful" TNA years were the ones where they only lost a couple million. But they had a TV deal, so therefore they were "#2" even if other companies in the same time frame were profitable. I contend that if PWG paid all of the talent, and all of their other bills, while running in front of a few hundred people, that was a more successful business than TNA overspending their owners into debt. But that's me. Having TV isn't everything. Honestly, TNA is one of the least successful wrestling companies of the past 20 years. Mom and pop indies that turned a profit should be ranked higher.
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