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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 15:56:32 GMT -5
Personally I've always been firmly against Bret in the situation. Yeah, contractually he really didn't have to lose the belt to Michaels in Canada if he didn't want to, but outside of just being petty it's not like doing so would actually have affected anything for him in going to WCW.
Granted the blame's more on Vince for allowing the situation to reach that point, but by the time it did I feel like him losing the belt to Shawn was what should have happened.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 22, 2019 16:01:33 GMT -5
All jokes aside, Montreal was completely avoidable, Vince is just a stubborn jackass and he had weeks to take the belt off Bret. Oh wait, I'm sorry, Vince McMahon is a genius who's never done anything wrong. Jokes not aside, they should've just had Taker sit outside Bret's locker room taping his fists. Someone mentioned losing to Triple H just as a non Shawn suggestion but Triple H was far from ready for the world title scene. Losing to H would have probably killed any momentum WWF had been building for the last six months to a year. There would probably be no Mr. McMahon for sure. I've never really bought into the Undertaker WrestleMania fist taping. I don't fully believe in the whole "locker room" leader thing with him first but I won't hijack this thread by bashing Undertaker. I will say that I think Undertaker knew that Shawn was Vince's golden child even up to 1998 and that if Undertaker had even remotely tried to intimidate Shawn that Shawn still had enough pull to send Undertaker back to WCW and since Shawn's kliq was running WCW, Undertaker would have been "Mean Mark" again. That's how much pull Shawn had, he ruled the wrestling world of WWF and WCW, even though he wasn't under contract with them. I'm sure Undertaker enjoys fans or anti-Shawn fans thinking he's this bad ass who scared Shawn Michaels into dropping the title to Austin when it probably didn't even happen or didn't happen the way folk lore makes it seem.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 22, 2019 16:02:41 GMT -5
Screwing him was the best solution. It provided Austin with his arch enemy.
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Post by nickcave on Jun 22, 2019 16:06:38 GMT -5
I don't know why Bret couldn't have lost it to Shamrock or Taker and had Shawn beat either one of them at the next pay-per-view. In the grand scheme of things it would have made no difference at all. But without the screwjob, who knows what direction they would have went in. HBK very well could have not had the debilitating back injury that put him out and Austin's rise could have been delayed or ended.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 22, 2019 16:09:09 GMT -5
Screwing him was the best solution. Hey lady, this is a PG show.
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Post by Starshine on Jun 22, 2019 16:23:31 GMT -5
I like Bret a lot, but if we're going to shit on Hogan for refusing to drop the title to Bret and instead only agreeing to do it for Yokozuna, back when Hogan thought he was coming back, anyway, then what lets Bret off the hook when he was knowingly leaving the company, probably forever? It’s not the same thing. With Hogan him getting the belt was always with the promise he’d lose to Bret at SummerSlam, but then he went back on the deal in typical lying Hogan fashion. Bret was very transparent in how he didn’t want to go out.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 22, 2019 16:29:22 GMT -5
I like Bret a lot, but if we're going to shit on Hogan for refusing to drop the title to Bret and instead only agreeing to do it for Yokozuna, back when Hogan thought he was coming back, anyway, then what lets Bret off the hook when he was knowingly leaving the company, probably forever? It’s not the same thing. With Hogan him getting the belt was always with the promise he’d lose to Bret at SummerSlam, but then he went back on the deal in typical lying Hogan fashion. Bret was very transparent in how he didn’t want to go out. You do bring up a good point, he wouldn't have even won it if he had been transparent about his disinterest in facing Bret.
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The Yes Man
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Post by The Yes Man on Jun 22, 2019 16:42:25 GMT -5
They should’ve just done exactly what they did but let Bret in on it.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 22, 2019 16:42:30 GMT -5
The problem with trying to solve Montreal is that it seeks to apply a rational solution to an irrational problem. None of the actors in this story were going to ever act rationally and no solution that could have resolved the issue was going to mean much, in no small part because the looming presence of Bischoff being a bad faith actor ensured Vince was not going to have a clear head going into this clash between two insane egos both vying for control of the situation. A lot of solutions went out the window because of that, and any chance to make people happy died a death in that moment. Montreal was a doomed prospect nothing was going to solve, and I do understand the fascination and wanting to relitigate it, but I also think the shitty way it went down came about so well that appeasing a few fragile egos would have been a net loss for wrestling on the whole.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 18:05:03 GMT -5
They were all f***ing marks in the situation.
They should’ve just let Bret win and then said he left the company and they “vacated” the title.
Bret Hart would’ve never dumped the title on Nitro.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Jun 22, 2019 18:08:54 GMT -5
I still say the whole damn was a work and Bret was in on it the whole time
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Post by avenger on Jun 22, 2019 18:35:52 GMT -5
Cornette sucks, but I will say I agree with him about this whole mess to an extent. Namely: Shawn was a major piece of shit at the time, but A. Bret's out the door, anyway, what does it matter to him who gets the belt? Why is it his business any longer? and B. he didn't run to the papers when they gave him the WWF title all those other times, but he does so when things don't go his way, which is pretty prima donna of him, too. Three colossal egos, and while Bret is the most sympathetic party and the most likable of the three, he had his share of douche moments, too. I don't think you can become a main eventer, and stay a main eventer, for years without getting a big head. Bret, Foley, Daniel Bryan, some of the most humble main eventers ever, but still, they can get *real* smug, too. I think you kinda have to be. I like Bret a lot, but if we're going to shit on Hogan for refusing to drop the title to Bret and instead only agreeing to do it for Yokozuna, back when Hogan thought he was coming back, anyway, then what lets Bret off the hook when he was knowingly leaving the company, probably forever? This. Shawn was a colossal prick, and Bret's always been a huge mark for himself. But ultimately, the both worked for Vince, and there's a reason it's called doing the job. Bret had "reasonable creative control" for the last 30 days of his contract. Vetoing who the face of the company is going to be, isn't reasonable creative control, especially if you're leaving for the direct competition. Vince should have told Bret that he was doing the job, or being fired and sued for breach of contract, and bury him by having Shawn call him out, and suggest that babyface Bret is scared of losing the title in the ring, so he'd rather lose by forfeit instead (that's a burial, not losing a few matches on the trot). Have an impromptu match for the now vacant belt, Shawn and the other best wrestler on the card.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 18:48:38 GMT -5
I still say the whole damn was a work and Bret was in on it the whole time Imagine if it was a work and it never came out. Best work ever?
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Jun 22, 2019 19:00:02 GMT -5
They should've just Eiffel Towered Sunny together and gotten all that tension out of their systems.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 19:33:27 GMT -5
Delay the Kane debut by a month, have Taker go over at bad blood.
Bret v Undertaker in Montreal with UT winning then Kane comes out and wrecks UT, Vince decides to make an immediate title match and “sexy boy” starts to play.
Both the Kane and Mr McMahon characters debut in the hottest angle, lots of heat on Shawn, if feeling vindictive Vince could keep post match plans from Bret and Bret doesn’t have any way to moan as it wasn’t him that dropped the title.
With this alternative the screwjob makes less sense as it means Bret wouldn’t debut in WCW as red hot as he did (sheer luck that WCW ballsed that up from Vince’s pov).
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Post by Jiren on Jun 22, 2019 20:07:20 GMT -5
In one sense I'm glad it happened since it gave us Mr Mcmahon but I think Taker would've been a good replacement for Shawn.
He holds it till Rumble and we still get the Kane betrayal but it's got extra bit to it now since he also cost Taker the title.
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Post by Push R Truth on Jun 22, 2019 21:53:56 GMT -5
The obvious solution was to drop the title to Shawn. It's not like Bret was being told to jump off a cliff or eat at Arby's. All he had to do was take an L but he whined.
But real talk now, Vince shouldn't have let it get this close. He created the problem. Bret contributed to the problem. Shawn is an asshole but he didn't book it nor whine like Bret about it.
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Post by fw91 on Jun 22, 2019 22:56:45 GMT -5
I still say the whole damn was a work and Bret was in on it the whole time i could believe that, especially since the fallout kind of benefited WWE in the long-run, plus the whole Wrestling with Shadows documentary being conveniently filmed during all of it. However, I feel like if it was a work, Bret would have been back a lot sooner than 12 years later.
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 23, 2019 0:40:23 GMT -5
All jokes aside, Montreal was completely avoidable, Vince is just a stubborn jackass and he had weeks to take the belt off Bret. Oh wait, I'm sorry, Vince McMahon is a genius who's never done anything wrong. Jokes not aside, they should've just had Taker sit outside Bret's locker room taping his fists. Someone mentioned losing to Triple H just as a non Shawn suggestion but Triple H was far from ready for the world title scene. Losing to H would have probably killed any momentum WWF had been building for the last six months to a year. There would probably be no Mr. McMahon for sure. I've never really bought into the Undertaker WrestleMania fist taping. I don't fully believe in the whole "locker room" leader thing with him first but I won't hijack this thread by bashing Undertaker. I will say that I think Undertaker knew that Shawn was Vince's golden child even up to 1998 and that if Undertaker had even remotely tried to intimidate Shawn that Shawn still had enough pull to send Undertaker back to WCW and since Shawn's kliq was running WCW, Undertaker would have been "Mean Mark" again. That's how much pull Shawn had, he ruled the wrestling world of WWF and WCW, even though he wasn't under contract with them. I'm sure Undertaker enjoys fans or anti-Shawn fans thinking he's this bad ass who scared Shawn Michaels into dropping the title to Austin when it probably didn't even happen or didn't happen the way folk lore makes it seem. Taker said he made it clear Shawn would do the right thing. He’s never confirmed the story, but that’s the answer he gave on OTR years ago.
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Post by JCBaggee on Jun 23, 2019 0:45:00 GMT -5
Bret said he would even put over the Brookly Brawler Anyone but Shawn Imagine the bizarro wrestling world we'd be living in now after the surprise top heel run of the Brooklyn Brawler, kicking off with pinning Bret Hart in Canada.
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