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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 23, 2019 19:08:42 GMT -5
I thought the Spike episodes of Ren & Stimpy were bad, but that was one of the most revolting pieces of animation I've ever seen. I never understood this guy's appeal, even before the statutory rape allegations. Because, LOL he's so counter culture and has screwed by the network points we'll allow him to spend forever!! Used to be mad too, but I now totally get why Nickelodeon did what they did.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,774
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Post by hassanchop on Jun 24, 2019 1:39:27 GMT -5
Probably statutes of limitations. That and as you may have noticed, we aren't very good with actually convicting people of sexual assaults here. The worst part is how John "apologized" about it. He still comes across as a creeper and concludes his "apology" with "Outside of Spongebob and its talented team, I'm one of the few producers left who's willing to break creative boundaries, try new things and allow artists to show off their own unique styles and skills." Hmmm, where in his latest work has he done anything to break creative boundaries at all?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 1:52:45 GMT -5
I think the thing with John K. is that he does genuinely have talent and did a lot of importance for the industry... but he desperately needs to be kept on a leash and even then I still don't actually like anything of his I've ever seen.
Though either way the guy's a horrible human being.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 24, 2019 2:22:58 GMT -5
I think the original Ren and Stimpy is fantastic, and its importance to American animation can't be overstated.
But. If it wasn't him, I kiiiiiiinda think it would have been someone else. He basically just took underground comix humor and put it on TV.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jun 24, 2019 4:14:21 GMT -5
Dammit, It's not there anymore!
Been a Fan of his work Since the Mighty Mouse show, although outside of Animation he seems pretty damned wretched
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 4:31:31 GMT -5
How anyone can still support this POS, is beyond me.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jun 24, 2019 6:11:56 GMT -5
I thought the Spike episodes of Ren & Stimpy were bad, but that was one of the most revolting pieces of animation I've ever seen. I never understood this guy's appeal, even before the statutory rape allegations. The Spike episodes were pretty bad, there was only ONE episode that felt like a "real" Ren and Stumpy cartoon (the one about Ren's childhood) They just felt like they were trying too hard to do shock/gross out humor
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 24, 2019 8:20:43 GMT -5
Probably statutes of limitations. That and as you may have noticed, we aren't very good with actually convicting people of sexual assaults here. The worst part is how John "apologized" about it. He still comes across as a creeper and concludes his "apology" with "Outside of Spongebob and its talented team, I'm one of the few producers left who's willing to break creative boundaries, try new things and allow artists to show off their own unique styles and skills." Hmmm, where in his latest work has he done anything to break creative boundaries at all? ....bro.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jun 24, 2019 12:52:50 GMT -5
I thought the Spike episodes of Ren & Stimpy were bad, but that was one of the most revolting pieces of animation I've ever seen. I never understood this guy's appeal, even before the statutory rape allegations. The Spike episodes were pretty bad, there was only ONE episode that felt like a "real" Ren and Stumpy cartoon (the one about Ren's childhood) They just felt like they were trying too hard to do shock/gross out humor If I understand correctly, the original plan was just for the show to be like the older cartoons, but Spike really wanted it to be more adult ala South Park, so we got the mess it was.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jun 24, 2019 13:58:57 GMT -5
The Spike episodes were pretty bad, there was only ONE episode that felt like a "real" Ren and Stumpy cartoon (the one about Ren's childhood) They just felt like they were trying too hard to do shock/gross out humor If I understand correctly, the original plan was just for the show to be like the older cartoons, but Spike really wanted it to be more adult ala South Park, so we got the mess it was. Oh, I kinda assumed that that was the kind of "edgy" stuff K wanted to do but the people at Nick stopped him from doing it. That's good to hear, makes him regain some credibility Or at least it would if not for all that OTHER stuff that's more troubling than sub Par cartoons
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 24, 2019 16:25:58 GMT -5
I remember a period before the scandals broke where John K was considered a sacred saint of the animation community, mostly for his love of squash-n-stretch art directions and focus on storyboarding.
He was this symbol of sticking it to the quick and cheap productions prominent at the time, and he had a massive ego about the whole thing. I always tried to tune out whenever he’d rant about hating most modern cartoons (basically anything that wasn’t Clampett or Hanna Barbera, he usually trashed), because there wasn’t much constructive criticism and he always came off bitter.
This is all aside from him being a walking sack of trash as a person, BTW.
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Post by wildojinx on Jun 24, 2019 16:30:45 GMT -5
The Spike episodes were pretty bad, there was only ONE episode that felt like a "real" Ren and Stumpy cartoon (the one about Ren's childhood) They just felt like they were trying too hard to do shock/gross out humor If I understand correctly, the original plan was just for the show to be like the older cartoons, but Spike really wanted it to be more adult ala South Park, so we got the mess it was. However, I've also read that John made the cartoons based off suggestions from his fans , ie "make a cartoon with just gross stuff!""make a cartoon with naked girls",etc, so he was just "giving them what they wanted".
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jun 24, 2019 16:38:30 GMT -5
I remember a period before the scandals broke where John K was considered a sacred saint of the animation community, mostly for his love of squash-n-stretch art directions and focus on storyboarding. He was this symbol of sticking it to the quick and cheap productions prominent at the time, and he had a massive ego about the whole thing. I always tried to tune out whenever he’d rant about hating most modern cartoons (basically anything that wasn’t Clampett or Hanna Barbera, he usually trashed), because there wasn’t much constructive criticism and he always came off bitter. This is all aside from him being a walking sack of trash as a person, BTW. John K was the Jim Cornette of animation. Now he wishes he'd be remembered as the Jim Cornette of animation.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 24, 2019 16:42:39 GMT -5
I remember a period before the scandals broke where John K was considered a sacred saint of the animation community, mostly for his love of squash-n-stretch art directions and focus on storyboarding. He was this symbol of sticking it to the quick and cheap productions prominent at the time, and he had a massive ego about the whole thing. I always tried to tune out whenever he’d rant about hating most modern cartoons (basically anything that wasn’t Clampett or Hanna Barbera, he usually trashed), because there wasn’t much constructive criticism and he always came off bitter. This is all aside from him being a walking sack of trash as a person, BTW. John K was the Jim Cornette of animation. Now he wishes he'd be remembered as the Jim Cornette of animation. Better the Cornette than the Rock n Roll Buck.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,894
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Post by Sephiroth on Jun 24, 2019 16:43:57 GMT -5
I think the original Ren and Stimpy is fantastic, and its importance to American animation can't be overstated. But. If it wasn't him, I kiiiiiiinda think it would have been someone else. He basically just took underground comix humor and put it on TV. The Simpsons was already going strong by the time Ren and Stimpy came around. South Park and Family Guy were right around the corner. And there were experiments like Capitol Critters and Fish City going on. Yeah, it would have happened with or without him.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jun 24, 2019 17:48:21 GMT -5
I think the original Ren and Stimpy is fantastic, and its importance to American animation can't be overstated. But. If it wasn't him, I kiiiiiiinda think it would have been someone else. He basically just took underground comix humor and put it on TV. The Simpsons was already going strong by the time Ren and Stimpy came around. South Park and Family Guy were right around the corner. And there were experiments like Capitol Critters and Fish City going on. Yeah, it would have happened with or without him. Ren & Stimpy was different though because it was actually aimed at Kids and aired on a Network known as promoting kid friendly programming. That's kinda the subversive genius of it. There was a lot of really dark, psychological humor/drama on this show and at times the artwork was cartoonishly grotesque Even as a little Kid I realized there was something slightly sinister about this show that I probably shouldn't have been watching.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 24, 2019 21:16:23 GMT -5
I think the original Ren and Stimpy is fantastic, and its importance to American animation can't be overstated. But. If it wasn't him, I kiiiiiiinda think it would have been someone else. He basically just took underground comix humor and put it on TV. The Simpsons was already going strong by the time Ren and Stimpy came around. South Park and Family Guy were right around the corner. And there were experiments like Capitol Critters and Fish City going on. Yeah, it would have happened with or without him. Simpsons very definitely came from the same pipeline, though it was trying to be a sit-com which meant it had to be removed from Groening's roots. So did TMNT, though that was obviously unrecognizable as a TV show. We had The Maxx / Liquid Television leading to Beavis and Butthead, of course. The Tick, Space Ghost Coast to Coast, and Invader Zim came out of that, but they were later. A lot of the stuff that came out later, like Rocko's Modern Life or Eek the Cat or 2 Stupid Dogs, might not have been picked up without Ren and Stimpy. I think someone woulda broken through, but it's a weird world where 2 Stupid Dogs changed the game. Ren and Stimpy's ART STYLE was definitely distinct and influential, and there's a straight line from R Crumb to John K and I just realized that's why he goes by a letter and shivered in disgust. South Park and Family Guy come from a different tradition, I think.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 27, 2019 12:31:51 GMT -5
Bump, but I watched this- and I wish I hadn't.
Here's the thing about squash and stretch cartoons: it's a useful fundamental for any animator/artist, but you can't overdo it. Otherwise your characters will look too much like rubber, because there's no structure. George Liquor doesn't have a "classic cartoon" feel if that's what John's going for. He looks more like silly putty, except with Ed Roth's "Rat Fink" faces.
That's the problem with John K's work in Adult Party Cartoon and that Simpsons couch gag, the models are being stretched and pulled so much to where the designs don't ever feel consistent. He's not letting the viewer visually "catch their breath", which is what Disney animators, anime artists and other cartoonists know how to do.
On top of that, the story is lame. George is so cheap he's gonna have his nephews eat expired food. Okay, that could be funny. The cat rejecting it in that down-to-earth manner was fine. But the face ripping, George's ass and the Mickey/Donald thing are just weak.
This took seven years, how?
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