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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 14:28:21 GMT -5
What are some narratives that a lot of people seem to accept as fact but didn’t quite happen exactly the way they’re often retold?
Austin’s 3:16 speech at KOTR turned him into a megastar overnight - If you look at TV over the next few months he usually gets very little reaction. He was on the pre-show of Summerslam. It wasn’t until October/November when he started to really get over.
The Hurricane beat The Rock clean - He actually won with a fluke roll-up due to a Steve Austin distraction. Another thing I’ve seen repeated a lot over the years is “The Rock put Hurricane over clean then Triple H squashed him the next week.” The following week Rock was the one who absolutely destroyed Hurricane. Triple H and Hurricane did have a match before Wrestlemania but it wasn’t a squash and Hurricane actually looked more competitive in that match than he did the Rock one. There was also a similar Hurricane/Chris Jericho match too.
JBL is poopy - This was a week or two after WWE officially went PG and was clearly a wink wink ironic response to the fans at the time who thought the new rating was going to turn Raw into a kids show. It was never supposed to be some actual hilarious/savage insult.
“But Hunter, we’re girls.” - This didn’t kill Beth’s tough girl reputation. She wasn’t scared. It was pretty obviously an act. She was just being a bitch in the hope that it would get the babyface out of power.
The 2011 summer of Punk was the hottest WWE had been in years - It actually drew significantly less than the summer stories the year prior (Nexus/Cena) and after (Lesnar/Triple H).
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 24, 2019 14:40:34 GMT -5
As someone that started watching a little before that time.It never came out that way.Ever.
And The Summer of Punk skyrocketed Merch Sales and audience reactions,more than either nexus or Lesnar/Triple H.And if I'm not mistakne it had a big spike and buzz before WWE ruined it.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jun 24, 2019 15:01:20 GMT -5
Marc Mero was over in WWE, and him winning the IC title was not a surprise. He was overshadowed by his wife but he was not at all someone the company inexplicably gave a push at the expense of fan desires.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 24, 2019 15:09:58 GMT -5
Daniel Puder had Kurt Angle in an inescapable hold and was mere milliseconds away from breaking his arm when the savvy ref counted the pin even though his shoulders weren't down! Kurt Angle was furious with him, and this moment cemented his terrible attitude!
reality: Daniel Puder had Kurt Angle in a hold and also was clearly in a pinning position. After the match, Angle stood tight up in his face and was like, "What's wrong with you? You're in a wrestling match, and you immediately go over on your back?" Daniel Puder's response was pretty much, "Yes, I understand, thank you."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 15:26:41 GMT -5
I hate Triple H. Absolutely hate him.
However, I think that thing with him saying "someone like you" to Booker T wasn't meant to be racist. He meant like a B level guy, at least that's how it seemed to me.
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Post by 111111 on Jun 24, 2019 15:38:03 GMT -5
Everyone thinks the yes chants started when Daniel Bryan lost in 18 seconds, in reality everyone was chanting yes before the show even started
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 15:44:28 GMT -5
Undertaker/Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania XXV being so good that it killed the crowd and nothing could possibly follow it.
Except Edge/Cena/Big Show went on immediately after that match and the crowd was hot for it. If Orton/Triple H had a good match the crowd wouldn’t have been dead.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jun 24, 2019 15:49:35 GMT -5
I hate Triple H. Absolutely hate him. However, I think that thing with him saying "someone like you" to Booker T wasn't meant to be racist. He meant like a B level guy, at least that's how it seemed to me. Which is why they immediately played Booker T's clearly behind him criminal past into the storyline, then?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 16:42:46 GMT -5
I hate Triple H. Absolutely hate him. However, I think that thing with him saying "someone like you" to Booker T wasn't meant to be racist. He meant like a B level guy, at least that's how it seemed to me. Which is why they immediately played Booker T's clearly behind him criminal past into the storyline, then? Why is having a criminal past a racial thing?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 17:02:44 GMT -5
I hate Triple H. Absolutely hate him. However, I think that thing with him saying "someone like you" to Booker T wasn't meant to be racist. He meant like a B level guy, at least that's how it seemed to me. Sometimes I also think this wasn’t a racist storyline. Compare it to the 2014 HHH/Bryan feud and a lot of the stuff is the same. Bringing up Booker being a criminal isn’t racist... he was a criminal. Telling him to do a dance for him isn’t racist either.... he made a career out of doing the spinaroonie. The “people like you” line, I could see how this could be considered racist HOWEVER he also said it this to Daniel Bryan when he called him a B plus player. Do I think Booker should’ve won? Yes. However I’m not sure it’s this big bad “racism” storyline everyone makes out.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jun 24, 2019 17:05:22 GMT -5
I hate Triple H. Absolutely hate him. However, I think that thing with him saying "someone like you" to Booker T wasn't meant to be racist. He meant like a B level guy, at least that's how it seemed to me. Sometimes I also think this wasn’t a racist storyline. Compare it to the 2014 HHH/Bryan feud and a lot of the stuff is the same. Bringing up Booker being a criminal isn’t racist... he was a criminal. Telling him to do a dance for him isn’t racist either.... he made a career out of doing the spinaroonie. The “people like you” line, I could see how this could be considered racist HOWEVER he also said it this to Daniel Bryan when he called him a B plus player. Do I think Booker should’ve won? Yes. However I’m not sure it’s this big bad “racism” storyline everyone makes out. He also threw a dollar at him and told Booker to get him a towel or something. I think the implication there is pretty tough to miss.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 24, 2019 17:28:00 GMT -5
I hate Triple H. Absolutely hate him. However, I think that thing with him saying "someone like you" to Booker T wasn't meant to be racist. He meant like a B level guy, at least that's how it seemed to me. Sometimes I also think this wasn’t a racist storyline. Compare it to the 2014 HHH/Bryan feud and a lot of the stuff is the same. Bringing up Booker being a criminal isn’t racist... he was a criminal. Telling him to do a dance for him isn’t racist either.... he made a career out of doing the spinaroonie. The “people like you” line, I could see how this could be considered racist HOWEVER he also said it this to Daniel Bryan when he called him a B plus player. Do I think Booker should’ve won? Yes. However I’m not sure it’s this big bad “racism” storyline everyone makes out. First of all, didn't he use the phrase 'nappy hair' in one promo? Second of all, paying a black guy to dance for you is pretty obviously directly racist. Paying a black guy to serve you in a bathroom is pretty blatantly racist. And 'people like you' is painfully obvious. The fact that you can interpret it in such minute terms as not racist is because that was the only way to get that angle on TV.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jun 24, 2019 17:36:24 GMT -5
Sometimes I also think this wasn’t a racist storyline. Compare it to the 2014 HHH/Bryan feud and a lot of the stuff is the same. Bringing up Booker being a criminal isn’t racist... he was a criminal. Telling him to do a dance for him isn’t racist either.... he made a career out of doing the spinaroonie. The “people like you” line, I could see how this could be considered racist HOWEVER he also said it this to Daniel Bryan when he called him a B plus player. Do I think Booker should’ve won? Yes. However I’m not sure it’s this big bad “racism” storyline everyone makes out. First of all, didn't he use the phrase 'nappy hair' in one promo? Second of all, paying a black guy to dance for you is pretty obviously directly racist. Paying a black guy to serve you in a bathroom is pretty blatantly racist. And 'people like you' is painfully obvious. The fact that you can interpret it in such minute terms as not racist is because that was the only way to get that angle on TV. Right. It was actively gross when Bruce Prichard said "Oh, well, it wasn't racist, it was because he was a WCW guy" on his podcast. I could smell the bullshit through my earbuds.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jun 24, 2019 18:35:55 GMT -5
What are some narratives that a lot of people seem to accept as fact but didn’t quite happen exactly the way they’re often retold? Austin’s 3:16 speech at KOTR turned him into a megastar overnight - If you look at TV over the next few months he usually gets very little reaction. He was on the pre-show of Summerslam. It wasn’t until October/November when he started to really get over. It might not have turned him into a star overnight but he came up with two of the biggest catch phrases of all time off the top of his head (Austin 3:16 and cos stone cold said so) so it was still a huge moment historically.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 24, 2019 19:10:29 GMT -5
Dunno if you'd consider it a moment, and certainly not significant, but Ricky Steamboat's 1991 run. Him ONLY being called Dragon and not having his past mentioned at all is a Wrestlecrap narrative that was taken as canon. Though the new name was the rule and not exception, they did call him Steamboat once in a while, and his past was mentioned.... I at least recall a WWF Magazine article that did so.
Here's a rather infamous example...the punchline to the Katie Vick skit actually got a pop the first time around.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 24, 2019 19:12:30 GMT -5
First of all, didn't he use the phrase 'nappy hair' in one promo? Second of all, paying a black guy to dance for you is pretty obviously directly racist. Paying a black guy to serve you in a bathroom is pretty blatantly racist. And 'people like you' is painfully obvious. The fact that you can interpret it in such minute terms as not racist is because that was the only way to get that angle on TV. Right. It was actively gross when Bruce Prichard said "Oh, well, it wasn't racist, it was because he was a WCW guy" on his podcast. I could smell the bullshit through my earbuds. He's half right. The race angle WAS there no matter how veiled they tried to claim it was. But it was also another chapter in Hunter/Vince's Order 66 on any remaining WCW guys not destroyed by the InVasion angle.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 25, 2019 7:23:22 GMT -5
Sometimes I also think this wasn’t a racist storyline. Compare it to the 2014 HHH/Bryan feud and a lot of the stuff is the same. Bringing up Booker being a criminal isn’t racist... he was a criminal. Telling him to do a dance for him isn’t racist either.... he made a career out of doing the spinaroonie. The “people like you” line, I could see how this could be considered racist HOWEVER he also said it this to Daniel Bryan when he called him a B plus player. Do I think Booker should’ve won? Yes. However I’m not sure it’s this big bad “racism” storyline everyone makes out. First of all, didn't he use the phrase 'nappy hair' in one promo? Second of all, paying a black guy to dance for you is pretty obviously directly racist. Paying a black guy to serve you in a bathroom is pretty blatantly racist. And 'people like you' is painfully obvious. The fact that you can interpret it in such minute terms as not racist is because that was the only way to get that angle on TV. Yeah, one, maybe a couple of these if you're generous and you can argue ignorance, but all together...
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jun 25, 2019 7:30:39 GMT -5
What are some narratives that a lot of people seem to accept as fact but didn’t quite happen exactly the way they’re often retold? Austin’s 3:16 speech at KOTR turned him into a megastar overnight - If you look at TV over the next few months he usually gets very little reaction. He was on the pre-show of Summerslam. It wasn’t until October/November when he started to really get over. It might not have turned him into a star overnight but he came up with two of the biggest catch phrases of all time off the top of his head (Austin 3:16 and cos stone cold said so) so it was still a huge moment historically. Had Bret not come back in 1996 or had their has been no chemistry between them I don't think it would have mattered. Vince was all about that Warrior push in June of 1996.
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ERON
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Post by ERON on Jun 25, 2019 8:04:51 GMT -5
Dunno if you'd consider it a moment, and certainly not significant, but Ricky Steamboat's 1991 run. Him ONLY being called Dragon and not having his past mentioned at all is a Wrestlecrap narrative that was taken as canon. Though the new name was the rule and not exception, they did call him Steamboat once in a while, and his past was mentioned.... I at least recall a WWF Magazine article that did so. I was a new fan at the time, and I thought the Dragon was a brand new guy. I watched every show pretty religiously at the time, and I remember them acknowledging his past only twice. I remember them distinctly because they seemed so unusual and startling to me at the time. One was during a squash match on Superstars where Vince referred to him several times as "Ricky 'the Dragon' Steamboat" and I thought "Why is he calling him that? Is Ricky Steamboat his real name? What a weird name." Another was when they showed a montage of Wrestlemania moments, one of which was Steamboat holding up the IC title at WM III. I remember thinking, "Wait, was that the Dragon? He was around back then? And he was IC Champ?!? Why is that never mentioned?" Then he showed up in WCW and they treated him like an absolute legend, and I thought, "There's definitely more to this guy's story than I thought."
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cjh
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Post by cjh on Jun 25, 2019 8:36:20 GMT -5
Dunno if you'd consider it a moment, and certainly not significant, but Ricky Steamboat's 1991 run. Him ONLY being called Dragon and not having his past mentioned at all is a Wrestlecrap narrative that was taken as canon. Though the new name was the rule and not exception, they did call him Steamboat once in a while, and his past was mentioned.... I at least recall a WWF Magazine article that did so. Here's a rather infamous example...the punchline to the Katie Vick skit actually got a pop the first time around. Steamboat's Hasbro figure also used his full name.
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