Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 24, 2019 14:52:51 GMT -5
Sure things technically looks good but they use it for everything, no variety no hard work is applied for the camera production.
So is it more of a crutch for good production or is it a legit time-saving great idea?
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Venti
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Post by Venti on Jun 24, 2019 14:57:00 GMT -5
I never minded it. It's the constant movement of the other cameras on Raw that gives me a headache. Like, why is it so much easier to watch a match from 1996 than it is to watch something in 2019? Like the shaky cams gotta stop.
My only beef with the hard camera is when guys reposition themselves awkwardly to face it. Looks so bad.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Jun 24, 2019 14:57:07 GMT -5
In my opinion... I kinda like it because it shows the whole ring BUT it creates WAY too many "oh shit I gotta adjust this for the camera" moments. Really takes me out of the action when I pay attention to it.
I wish they would use the hard camera as just another option rather than the "main default option".
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 24, 2019 15:02:09 GMT -5
The hard camera angle has been in use since the 1950s and is almost essential to the presentation of pro wrestling on TV. It is also universal; no matter which promotion or time period, there has always been a hard camera positioned to one side of the ring which is usually intended to show the entire ring's width from that side.
The complaints about the camera work, when they come, are almost exclusively with the handheld cameras and how they're used (or misused.)
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jun 24, 2019 15:04:50 GMT -5
Like if you don't make it stupid play to it. Slide a foot over. Do your taunt to it. People's Elbow to it always. But if you do the Big Show Double chokeslam shift over... at that point you ruined it.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 24, 2019 15:05:43 GMT -5
The hard camera angle has been in use since the 1950s and is almost essential to the presentation of pro wrestling on TV. It is also universal; no matter which promotion or time period, there has always been a hard camera positioned to one side of the ring which is usually intended to show the entire ring's width from that side. The complaints about the camera work, when they come, are almost exclusively with the handheld cameras and how they're used (or misused.) I guess I should have specified more about how WWE uses it,as the show revolves all around it only.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 15:21:25 GMT -5
The hard camera itself is fine. It’s the rotating and directing EVERYTHING at the hard camera that’s the problem.
Why they can’t capture the moves on the dozens of cameras outside is beyond me.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 24, 2019 15:28:47 GMT -5
Incredibly lazy when it's the focal point. Having a firm camera in place and focused on the optimal place to capture the action as a default position is fine, but the way they're told to play to the camera absolutely has an effect on the way the product comes across. Nobody is ever able to command the camera because rather than the production changing to suit their demands and their actions, they have to adjust what they do expressly for the hard camera. Nobody ever interacts with the camera like it's an actual presence, but they are beholden entirely to its demands.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jun 24, 2019 15:34:38 GMT -5
I don't recall it being so big a problem, even just a few years ago, but yeah the camera itself isn't the issue, more just directing everything around it. Promos, taunts, entrances? Sure, but the majority of the match? It's just another way of them breaking the illusion and saying "yeah, it's just a show".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 15:41:00 GMT -5
bring on the drones
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 15:44:40 GMT -5
In WWE it is incredibly lazy because EVERYTHING is for the hard cam.
Promos...have to face the hard cam
signature moves ...do it towards the hard cam
pinning an opponent...(pulls a Nia Jax) goes for pin...stops makes sure to face hard cam and then commence the pin
They aren't putting on a show for the audience...it is a show for the hard cam.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jun 24, 2019 15:47:41 GMT -5
In my opinion... I kinda like it because it shows the whole ring BUT it creates WAY too many "oh shit I gotta adjust this for the camera" moments. Really takes me out of the action when I pay attention to it. I wish they would use the hard camera as just another option rather than the "main default option". Yeah that's all what I was gonna post too. It's a perfectly good camera angle, but "working to it" is awkward. "Just another option" is a good point too. I would prefer wrestlers working the crowd and the cameras get in position to capture it. I wouldn't mind if production was slightly clunkier and less sleek, but that's another rant.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 24, 2019 17:31:51 GMT -5
In WWE it is incredibly lazy because EVERYTHING is for the hard cam. Promos...have to face the hard cam signature moves ...do it towards the hard cam pinning an opponent...(pulls a Nia Jax) goes for pin...stops makes sure to face hard cam and then commence the pin They aren't putting on a show for the audience...it is a show for the hard cam. Even as an spector I feel like it is less immersive. We all know wrestling is scripted but we like to pretend it is a real "world", the hard play to the hardcore camera make it seems so fake.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Jun 24, 2019 17:35:15 GMT -5
it shouldn't have to be on the wrestlers to play to the hard camera when doing there moves. It should be on the cameramen/those in production in the back to get the best shots they can
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 18:36:31 GMT -5
In WWE it is incredibly lazy because EVERYTHING is for the hard cam. Promos...have to face the hard cam signature moves ...do it towards the hard cam pinning an opponent...(pulls a Nia Jax) goes for pin...stops makes sure to face hard cam and then commence the pin They aren't putting on a show for the audience...it is a show for the hard cam. Even as an spector I feel like it is less immersive. We all know wrestling is scripted but we like to pretend it is a real "world", the hard play to the hardcore camera make it seems so fake. This is why I always use LU's production as the measuring point so to speak as far as how to modernize how wrestling should be filmed. simple sequence but shows that it just flows better when wrestlers are allowed to wrestle and not worrie about if they are in the right place for the hardcam.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 24, 2019 19:03:26 GMT -5
The hard camera angle has been in use since the 1950s and is almost essential to the presentation of pro wrestling on TV. It is also universal; no matter which promotion or time period, there has always been a hard camera positioned to one side of the ring which is usually intended to show the entire ring's width from that side. The complaints about the camera work, when they come, are almost exclusively with the handheld cameras and how they're used (or misused.) I guess I should have specified more about how WWE uses it,as the show revolves all around it only.[/qu Given the context, I suppose I should have been addressed the current usage more specifically. It is distracting to see everything played to the camera side and, especially, when the live crowd is ignored entirely in its favour. It kills the live crowd's energy and gives the TV audience little incentive to care about what goes on in the ring.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 24, 2019 19:05:42 GMT -5
It's fine... having a decent shot that gets the entire ring is good... especially on taped shows and
Relying entirely on it and playing to it is the lazy part.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 19:06:15 GMT -5
The hard camera itself is fine. It’s the rotating and directing EVERYTHING at the hard camera that’s the problem. Why they can’t capture the moves on the dozens of cameras outside is beyond me. That’s my take on this as well. Hard camera is fine, but the talent having to do everything in front of it, even at the expense of making it look real, is ridiculous. If someone makes a pin and we can’t see their face, it’s really not a big deal.
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Post by michael on Jun 24, 2019 19:43:05 GMT -5
I checked out last week's 205 Live to see the new camera work I'd heard they were testing, and found the fact that the handheld cameras kept moving within the one shot to follow the action around the ring (and tighter)... produced the same uncomfortable and hard-to-watch feeling as the infamous shaky cam during RAW beatdowns. I'm really surprised others commenting on that 205 weren't getting the same sensation, since the constant movement of the shaky cam is so commonly hated.
I'm all for using a different hard camera angle in general (and even more for not rigidly playing to that hard camera), but for the love of God, please just pick one and hold still for five seconds. I feel like I have no stable frame of reference to discern the movements in the ring because my view is also moving. It's like I'm watching it from inside a gyroscope.
Do I just have some sort of medical problem in feeling overwhelmed by movements within a moving frame?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 24, 2019 19:44:23 GMT -5
I checked out last week's 205 Live to see the new camera work I'd heard they were testing, and found the fact that the handheld cameras kept moving within the one shot to follow the action around the ring (and tighter)... produced the same uncomfortable and hard-to-watch feeling as the infamous shaky cam during RAW beatdowns. I'm really surprised others commenting on that 205 weren't getting the same sensation, since the constant movement of the shaky cam is so commonly hated. I'm all for using a different hard camera angle in general (and even more for not rigidly playing to that hard camera), but for the love of God, please just pick one and hold still for five seconds. I feel like I have no stable frame of reference to discern the movements in the ring because my view is also moving. It's like I'm watching it from inside a gyroscope. Do I just have some sort of medical problem in feeling overwhelmed by movements within a moving frame? I dont know medical terms but some people feel sick or dizzy when watching games/movies/tv that include fast moving/unstable camera work.
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