Spider2024
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Post by Spider2024 on Jun 25, 2019 12:45:27 GMT -5
As history goes, Vince McMahon Sr., once owner of the wrestling territory WWWF, knew he couldn't live forever, so he eventually took his son's offer to buy the company from him in 1982. Two years later, after Vince McMahon Sr. passed away I might add, Vince Jr. officially kickstarted his quest for world wrestling domination. Vince Jr. has said in multiple interviews that his dad would never have sold the company to him if he knew he would go global with the federation, because Vince Sr. fully wanted wrestling to stay territorial.
I'm tempted to say that, at the very least, Vince Sr. knew that someone somewhere would try to expand pro wrestling the way that Vince Jr. did. I feel like maybe Ted Turner and/or Verne Gagne had that goal in mind long term, even before Vince Sr. sold the WWWF. So he knew that someone would do it, so it might as well be his own son (to do right by his own flesh and blood) if it was going to be anyone at all. That's my theory at least. (For the record, I don't know in theory what would've happened if hypothetically Vince Sr. had died in 1981 or otherwise before he ever sold it outright and who would own & run WWWF then.)
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jun 25, 2019 13:28:18 GMT -5
He knew, and warned everyone.
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Venti
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Post by Venti on Jun 25, 2019 13:38:19 GMT -5
Totally a guess, but I'd imagine. I mean, it's his son, after years of working together he probably knew him and his personality well enough to figure that he'd go ahead and go national. The best Sr. could really do is ask him not to. But really who knows what conversations go on behind closed doors. I feel like if Vince didn't do what he did, someone somewhere would eventually attempt it.
This made me think of quite possibly the biggest "what if" in wrestling. What if Vince never met his father?(I believe he met him at age 12)
Side note: if I ever start a promotion, I'm totally using "world wrestling domination"
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Post by realist on Jun 25, 2019 13:42:21 GMT -5
I remember hearing somewhere, I think on the Lapsed Fan, that Vince McMahon called Dusty Rhodes and kept saying, "You have the power to stop him," right before he died. It was believed that he was talking about Vince Jr. taking over the wrestling world. I always believed this to be one of Dusty Rhodes' "Hulk Hogan exaggerations." But, it was still interesting to me.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 25, 2019 14:09:27 GMT -5
Didn't he tell Vince Junior that someone in the business would probably murder him?
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jun 25, 2019 14:37:35 GMT -5
I've always heard that yeah, Vince Sr. probably knew what his son was gonna be about, but didn't think he could pull it off. Of course, cable was coming on like a beast, and it was gonna be SOMEONE, and of course it was the guy who was situated with some of the best major television markets as his base.
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Post by Stone Coke Miami Watson đ„ on Jun 25, 2019 15:04:16 GMT -5
If it wasnât Vince, it wouldâve been Turner with all his stations at the time...someone was bound to go national, and Vince Jr. just happened to be the first in line.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 25, 2019 15:18:22 GMT -5
He absolutely knew. Too many people were warned by him that "Junior" had big plans that were going to piss everybody off.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 25, 2019 15:27:54 GMT -5
I'd always understood the whole "my dad never would have sold it if he knew what I was doing" as sort of a twofold factor. One was to puff himself up as being crafty and subtle in the idea that he came out of nowhere with this big ambitions and drive to do what nobody else could, because it's the company mythology. The other was to try and soften the blow for his father and make it seem like he was removed from everything that happened and it's not his fault.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 16:25:10 GMT -5
Sr had DC, NY, Boston and Philly so it was de facto national already by being in such large markets
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 25, 2019 17:37:32 GMT -5
Sr had DC, NY, Boston and Philly so it was de facto national already by being in such large markets And through Tunney, he had Toronto.
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Post by Cranjis McBasketballâđ» on Jun 25, 2019 17:50:32 GMT -5
Depends on who tells the story.
Sometimes you hear that he knew, but never thought heâd be able to do it and thatâs why he put the stipulation in that if Junior missed one payment Gorilla, Skaaland and the other guy Iâm forgetting would get the company back.
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Post by timelimitdraw on Jun 25, 2019 18:21:51 GMT -5
I don't think he knew when he and his partners first made the deal with Vince Jr., but he probably realized it shortly thereafter, which is when he started giving a few friends a heads up. By that point so long as Vince Jr. made his payments on time, even if he regretted what his son would do, his hands were tied.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jun 25, 2019 18:22:53 GMT -5
Depends on who tells the story. Sometimes you hear that he knew, but never thought heâd be able to do it and thatâs why he put the stipulation in that if Junior missed one payment Gorilla, Skaaland and the other guy Iâm forgetting would get the company back. Phil Zacko.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 25, 2019 18:28:29 GMT -5
He knew, and it was just as well, given it isn't like there wasn't already cracks showing this would happen eventually, anyway. Vince had the infrastructure that made him probably the most well-equipped guy for the job, but NWA guys were already eyeing each other with suspicion probably, anyway, and someone was going to set that Mexican standoff off.
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jun 25, 2019 20:46:06 GMT -5
Sr had DC, NY, Boston and Philly so it was de facto national already by being in such large markets And through Tunney, he had Toronto. They really didn't get a foothold into Toronto until 84, and Vince K was firmly in charge by then.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 25, 2019 21:13:42 GMT -5
He warned people that Jr had plans definitely. Allegedly he asked Dusty to stop his son from killing the business.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 25, 2019 21:21:28 GMT -5
And through Tunney, he had Toronto. They really didn't get a foothold into Toronto until 84, and Vince K was firmly in charge by then. Yeah, that was a master stroke on his part, admittedly.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 25, 2019 22:45:13 GMT -5
but NWA guys were already eyeing each other with suspicion probably, anyway, and someone was going to set that Mexican standoff off. Prior to Vince getting Hogan back and starting up the expansion proper, Ole had already tried taking Georgia national (and failed), World Class and Mid South were constantly having territory border issues, Southwestern had gone national with the USA timeslot and had struck away from the NWA. Memphis was constantly hedging their bets by aligning with the AWA or NWA, whichever furthered their own narrative, Stampede had also pulled out of the NWA, and Amarillo, New Mexico, Detroit, Gulas, San Francisco and LA had all already fallen in the year or two prior. Not to mention Crockett and Dusty bonding hard in '83, leading to Dusty torching the Florida territory.
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J. Hova
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Post by J. Hova on Jun 25, 2019 22:57:52 GMT -5
Cable TV was exploding, so yeah, someone somewhere would have tried it. Whether they would have been successful is up to debate. I cannot imagine anyone being as successful as quickly and as profitably as VKM. You can't really compare the ones that tried afterwards as they were playing catch up, but I just cannot see JCP or the AWA being as successful as the WWF was. I'm not saying they wouldn't be successful on their own, just not as successful.
Personally, I think Sr. knew his son's intentions. It isn't as if suddenly mid-30s VKM suddenly got aspirations or motivated to do big things, he probably laid out plans to his dad thinking his dad would run with it. I have no idea when Sr. was diagnosed, but he did die of cancer, so he might have really just done it as a deathbed type of deal. I think it is well documented he called promoters he considered friends and warned them of VKM's intentions.
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