Foley: I didn't realise how constrained Mox felt in WWE

[héad.casé]

"I saw Jon Moxley recently at an event, and I didn't realize how constrained he felt by the format over there. This isn't an exercise in the whipping of WWE here, but I said to him, and I mentioned this before and it bears repeating: people look at the Attitude Era and they love it for a number of reasons. But very few people realize that we were allowed to try things and there wasn't any punishment for failing. Every great Austin 3:16 promo there's going to be 5 or 6 things that don't work.

"If you recall, The Rock never went to the 'Shut Up Juice', the 'Shut Up Juice' wasn't connecting, SmackDown Hotel was, and so guys were allowed to go out there and try things. I remember a couple of promos that failed miserably but I never got the feeling that just because they tanked that I wouldn't be able to get another shot at it."

"You know, this is something that I said during last year's 20 Years in Hell show: that if you're going to fail, fail spectacularly. Really, that match and a good part of my career were based on failures, and so I think that men and the women don't have that same freedom to fail. So guys are going out there playing not to lose instead of playing to win with their characters. I think you can specifically blame the 'This Is Your Life' segment, with me and The Rock, that went 14 minutes over for tighter structuring. I think that the ratings hurt in a sense."

"Imagine trying to be a heel in today's environment where you can't be offensive. Obviously we had a little more freedom to use language. I think in a lot of ways the PG rating makes you more creative, which is a good thing. But when you are catering to families, you can actually see someone complaining if a heel was scary. So there's no blood, which is probably a good thing in most cases. But it is hard being a menacing figure when you are so constrained, so, the answer is that everyone has to have great moves. I probably couldn't have made it in today's WWE environment because I didn't have enough cool moves."

"Here's the one thing that I see missing: when they have these babyfaces, people have an emotional stake in these good guys, and then the monster heel would come in and you're like, 'Okay, they're not trying to win a match, they are fighting for their lives'. That is how money was drawn with these great feuds, where the goal wasn't about winning a match, so I don't know if I would have lasted in an environment where you have to cover guys after every move."

www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/06/mick-foley-talks-running-into-jon-moxley-recently-655644/

[Mozenrath]

Guy who generally gets on well with Vince, likes WWE, and still doesn't dismiss Jon, while acknowledging that there are things that make the jobs of current wrestlers in some ways more difficult than in the past.

Take notes, Seth.

[Allie Kitsune]

Jun 26, 2019 5:35:24 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Guy who generally gets on well with Vince, likes WWE, and still doesn't dismiss Jon, while acknowledging that there are things that make the jobs of current wrestlers in some ways more difficult than in the past.

Take notes, Seth.

However, that "You can't be offensive" line isn't exactly going to endear him to the current fanbase.

Also :

"Thanks, Mick." (Just wanted to be the first to get that out there.)

[Macho Pichu]

He's 100% correct on every point. I especially like the observation that the PG era requires more creativity. I've always seen limitation as something to be embraced. Its something that gives you a framework to think around and in some ways, it can actually make things easier. There's so many things you can't do, which means now you can just take all the ideas that fit that criteria and put it in a bucket and just filter all the other ones outside of it until you hit on something that works. That means trying things that don't until you hit on it.


In terms of the idea that wrestlers need cool moves and constant covers, I think this is the whole wrestling scene right now. It isn't something that's contained in WWE right now.

[Zone Was Wrong]

Yeah, I don't think I can disagree with much here. There is a very thin rope a lot of these guys have to skirt around on and if they make one misstep they're regulated to Main Event or 205 Live. EC3, reportedly, couldn't get a reaction from the crowd when facing Mox. Of course it was going to be an up hill battle, but dude was set up to fail. Maybe had there been a bit more leeway and an actual story to their matches he could have gotten the fans on his side. Dude is a talented mic worker and the fact I can't remember him saying more than a couple sentences astounds me. That's just the first example I can think of for a guy who wasn't given much of a chance to succeed before getting the boot to obscurity.

And honestly I don't think obscene language or non pc language is needed to become a bastard to the crowd. MJF is number one on that list nowadays. Even as great as his stuff is, I don't think I could stomach cheering him like we might for any other kind of heel we might nowadays. That goes to show just how hated he naturally is. Without using any kind of offensive words he's become one of the most hated characters by channeling the most hated qualities in an every day person. He's that office dude who tells you good morning with a smile while slandering your work to anyone who will listen.

[jivesoulbrah]

What Mick said is 100% spot on. These days everyone is practically reading from a Teleprompter and there’s no room to improvise which is how people got over in the past.

It’s nice to see an attitude era guy not use the old “well back in my day this is how we did it, you millenials are too lazy to do so” which is not even remotely the case all. Most wrestlers these days have more talent but are handicapped with the terrible writing and booking.

[Tenshigure]

Jun 26, 2019 8:29:14 GMT -5 Zone Was Wrong said:

EC3, reportedly, couldn't get a reaction from the crowd when facing Mox. Of course it was going to be an up hill battle, but dude was set up to fail. Maybe had there been a bit more leeway and an actual story to their matches he could have gotten the fans on his side. Dude is a talented mic worker and the fact I can't remember him saying more than a couple sentences astounds me. That's just the first example I can think of for a guy who wasn't given much of a chance to succeed before getting the boot to obscurity. 

Vince needs to get over himself and let EC3 and Drake team up again. Simply even having EC3 be the ref for Drake's 24/7 pursuits at least gives him something to do with arguably his best team-up option on the roster, plus he can turn that right around and have Maverick be his manager for mid-card programs further down the line (he'd be a decent first feud with Ricochet for example).

But no...fail when the deck is stacked against you, you're relegated to backstage segments near catering the for the remainder of your career. WWE failed him twice in the last decade, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if he refuses to renew after this fact.

[salz4life]

I agree with the entire statement Mick made.

[mrbananagrabber]

I’d honestly put Tomasso Ciampa as the poster boy for being a heel in this generation. No profanity, no blood, but an audience of mostly “smart” fans who loved despising the shit out of him. That’s how you do it.

[Dub H]

Jun 26, 2019 12:17:02 GMT -5 mrbananagrabber said:

I’d honestly put Tomasso Ciampa as the poster boy for being a heel in this generation. No profanity, no blood, but an audience of mostly “smart” fans who loved despising the shit out of him. That’s how you do it.

I would say Bryan is still the best heel today,which is crazy since he was the best face yesterday.

But Tomasso Ciampa is also a fantastic heel.

[Bub (BLM)]

This is the most I've agreed with Mick Foley in a very long time.

[Kyle Butler]

At least Bray and Truth get to improvise and try things. And GASP, they’re entertaining!

[King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler]

The only thing I really disagree with is Foley saying he wouldn't be over in today's environment.

As himself? probably wouldn't get over, yeah.

I also think Cactus Jack would be a hard sell due to not being able to be as destructive with his body in today's WWE, but I think the Mankind character would get over no matter what generation you put him in. Mick was born to play that character, and no one could have brought it to life like he did.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Jun 27, 2019 8:39:00 GMT -5 King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler said:

The only thing I really disagree with is Foley saying he wouldn't be over in today's environment.

As himself? probably wouldn't get over, yeah.

I also think Cactus Jack would be a hard sell due to not being able to be as destructive with his body in today's WWE, but I think the Mankind character would get over no matter what generation you put him in. Mick was born to play that character, and no one could have brought it to life like he did.

Dude Love would be huge in NXT and pre show on the main roster.

[Deleted]

Dude Love would basically be Adam Rose.

[RedSmile]

Pretty level headed and mature response from Mick, but Mick has also been so frustrated by WWE that he smashed his television with a baseball bat.

BANG-BANG!!!!

[Hypnosis]

Jun 27, 2019 9:36:13 GMT -5 @kn said:

Dude Love would basically be Adam Rose.

"Adam....Rose!"

[schma]

A measured and reasonable response from an Attitude Era star that doesn't blame talent while ignoring that the challenges and opportunities of 20 years ago were completely different from today? Colour me surprised.