segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on Jun 26, 2019 9:43:28 GMT -5
Like, would people forgive everything else wrong with the E right now if the storyline narratives and their presentation was 'good' as in detailed, layered and presented competently?
There is so much to cover, such as is story content all that creates compelling tv? What about things like Total divas? And finally, the characters/wrestlers themselves? Not even to mention things like the Saudi deal....
I know it's easy to generalise and say a good story means everything that could possibly contribute to it is great, but....do the E even have everything else lined up except the storylines? The in ring product isn't awful or anything...
Obviously we would want them to improve whatever they could, but....
I guess what I'm saying is, how much does great storylines automatically fix or patch up the entire product/brand of World Wrestling Entertainment?
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,576
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Post by Dub H on Jun 26, 2019 9:49:53 GMT -5
It is a big issue but I dont know how much it fixes.
everything feels the same,the production is bad ,matches are repetitive,commentary is horrendous
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 9:50:29 GMT -5
No, one thing changing would not fix everything. Narrative wouldn't fix the sheer amount of content that would still have to be produced, which would ultimately damage the narrative content.
I do think that changing the content up: pushing different people, creating longer, more involved feuds, introducing new factions, changing up the Road to Wrestlemania format they use, etc. would improve the overall experience ten-fold, but there would still be a ton of issues to fix.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jun 26, 2019 9:56:57 GMT -5
Repetition is my main problem. Kofi vs Dolph. (Seems like this might FINALLY have ended at least.) Drew vs Roman. Corbz vs Rollins. Becky vs Lacey. Shane Shane Shane Shane Shane Shane Shane. I don't mind having the same match again if it's good but it's repetition of bad feuds.
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Post by eJm on Jun 26, 2019 9:59:13 GMT -5
If we're talking about just simply the product itself...absolutely.
Forget the Attitude Era for a second, look at the Rock 'N Wrestling era. That had a known authority organising matches and promoting events, rules that were firmly established (suspensions/fines if you hit an official, manager licences, pay winda etc) and from that, you then had goals for these people to hit and from THAT you can have feuds with people who want different things like Hacksaw Jim Duggan/Harley Race or Junkyard Dog/Adrian Adonis where you can make less prominent talent seem important even though they're not a Hogan, a Dibiase, a Savage etc.
If you have a strong foundation and build off of that, you can get interest and that's literally the rule in every form of fiction. The MCU has a strong foundation and built characters off of that which is one of the reasons this weekend Endgame is probably going to become the most successful movie of all time (after inflation but still). You don't even need an MCU or anything, Law and Order: SCU is STILL going because it has a pattern people "enjoy" (in air quotes because of the subject matter) but also has a foundation and characters from that people are invested in.
It's really not hard to do but right now people are asking "So is the Wildcard rule not a thing?" and nobody on the show is explaining how it works leading to the viewer coming to their own conclusions which you never want to do without a good reason for it. "Flying from the seat of your pants" is not a reason for that.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 26, 2019 10:14:32 GMT -5
Terrible stories is the absolute number one problem for me. If the stories were good, everything else could be fixed around it.
The stories remain bad.
It's like having a sandwich with rotten meat in the middle. You can give it the best bread, cheese, lettuce, etc. If the main part of the meal is rotten, the rest of it will suck too.
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Post by thegame415 on Jun 26, 2019 10:45:17 GMT -5
Lack of stories and characters is the number one problem.
Workrate only goes so far. It’s reached its point.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,326
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 26, 2019 12:01:06 GMT -5
Compelling, competent and consistent characters are the main thing. People will forgive all sorts of crap if they like the character enough.
Sadly the way WWE is booked makes that tricky. Nearly everyone will do something stupid and/or out of character that undermines their work.
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Post by Captain Patren Fenderbaum-X on Jun 26, 2019 12:01:36 GMT -5
The core of any TV show are their characters and the narrative.
Asthetic changes are trivial when the core of any show is as non exsistent as stories and characters are in McMahon Land.
Damn if it was not for anyone but I stand by that LU is the greatest character and story driven televised wrestling show ever.
They had characters from all types of backgrounds and built a world for them to exsist nothing was out of place and had stories ontop of stories that weaved into other stories whether it be the bigger overall narrative or the more personal stories between the characters , no one character was the same and no one story was the same they all had reasons for doing what they were doing.
In WWE such things are non exsistent as it is more like a rotary phone....alright whose turn is it tonight and when they finally do seem to go in a new direction everyone may as well set the time on their watch because it never lasts and will be back to the status quo.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 26, 2019 12:02:53 GMT -5
Booking is easily the worst part of WWE right now. And narrative is a significant component of booking. It wouldn't fix everything, but it's a good start.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,576
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Post by Dub H on Jun 26, 2019 12:04:13 GMT -5
The core of any TV show are their characters and the narrative. Asthetic changes are trivial when the core of any show is as non exsistent as stories and characters are in McMahon Land. Damn if it was not for anyone but I stand by that LU is the greatest character and story driven televised wrestling show ever. They had characters from all types of backgrounds and built a world for them to exsist nothing was out of place and had stories ontop of stories that weaved into other stories whether it be the bigger overall narrative or the more personal stories between the characters , no one character was the same and no one story was the same they all had reasons for doing what they were doing. In WWE such things are non exsistent as it is more like a rotary phone....alright whose turn is it tonight and when they finally do seem to go in a new direction everyone may as well set the time on their watch because it never lasts and will be back to the status quo. LU is a good example that they head crazy rules. But they were CLEAR,they followed their own rules and continuity. WWE will come out one day "This story works because of x" "This story works because opposite of x".There is no clear rule between anything.
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Post by Captain Patren Fenderbaum-X on Jun 26, 2019 12:52:21 GMT -5
The core of any TV show are their characters and the narrative. Asthetic changes are trivial when the core of any show is as non exsistent as stories and characters are in McMahon Land. Damn if it was not for anyone but I stand by that LU is the greatest character and story driven televised wrestling show ever. They had characters from all types of backgrounds and built a world for them to exsist nothing was out of place and had stories ontop of stories that weaved into other stories whether it be the bigger overall narrative or the more personal stories between the characters , no one character was the same and no one story was the same they all had reasons for doing what they were doing. In WWE such things are non exsistent as it is more like a rotary phone....alright whose turn is it tonight and when they finally do seem to go in a new direction everyone may as well set the time on their watch because it never lasts and will be back to the status quo. LU is a good example that they head crazy rules. But they were CLEAR,they followed their own rules and continuity. WWE will come out one day "This story works because of x" "This story works because opposite of x".There is no clear rule between anything. There is no structure to well anything in WWE. A guy will act one way...and then for no reason just suddenly do something that goes against who he is for no reason other than it was what was written. I always use the cops in wrestling as an example....WWE will use cops for one thing but then the same situation will happen weeks later but this time no cops again because that is how it was written with no thought in mind , hell Braun strowman has actively commited murder multiple times on national TV but no explanation as to why he can get away with it just that he can apparently. In LU you understand why there are no cops interfering because we are shown that corruption runs deep well into political offices in LUs world.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 26, 2019 13:43:46 GMT -5
When you have no consistency, structure, or purpose to most of your content, and write your stories around everyone in your company looking like morons because you snap book weird last minute changes two hours before show time every week and try to cram lots of bad, not-landing twists that bum your audience out, your shows become things people don't want to see. Nobody looks like stars when you book them to look like doofs, nobody is going to break out when segments are actively written to hold them back, you won't find your next big star when you refuse to even utilize most of your roster to give the same handful of people twice as much screen time every week. The emotional connections your audience does form will be thinner and less frequent when you rarely if ever let an emotional moment actually breathe.
Mania this year was a feel-good moments with lots of nice, satisfying match endings and some outcomes that made people happy. Almost immediately people seemed to check out in droves afterward because they didn't believe WWE would continue to deliver and there was little point in camping out and waiting. Hell, a lot of people expected they wouldn't even stick the landing with Mania. The whole company's in a pretty sad state.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 45,788
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 26, 2019 13:59:41 GMT -5
The core of any TV show are their characters and the narrative. Asthetic changes are trivial when the core of any show is as non exsistent as stories and characters are in McMahon Land. Damn if it was not for anyone but I stand by that LU is the greatest character and story driven televised wrestling show ever. They had characters from all types of backgrounds and built a world for them to exsist nothing was out of place and had stories ontop of stories that weaved into other stories whether it be the bigger overall narrative or the more personal stories between the characters , no one character was the same and no one story was the same they all had reasons for doing what they were doing. In WWE such things are non exsistent as it is more like a rotary phone....alright whose turn is it tonight and when they finally do seem to go in a new direction everyone may as well set the time on their watch because it never lasts and will be back to the status quo. WWE doesn't even have a world for these personalities (for a certain value of "personality" to exist in. There's absolutely no reason for the shows to even exist right now. WWE is a shambling corpse or a machine running on autopilot. Why does Shane give a shit about this "Best in the World" crap? Why does ANYONE give a shit about anything? There's nothing to give a shit ABOUT. Seth cares about being stuck as the captain of a sinking ship, but none of that's playing out on screen.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,417
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jun 26, 2019 13:59:50 GMT -5
Terrible stories is the absolute number one problem for me. If the stories were good, everything else could be fixed around it. The stories remain bad. It's like having a sandwich with rotten meat in the middle. You can give it the best bread, cheese, lettuce, etc. If the main part of the meal is rotten, the rest of it will suck too. Yep. Though if they simply booked endings correctly a lot of their problems go away. Case in point: Bayley/Alexa from last year. Alexa humiliates her for weeks, says Bayley can't go hardcorethen...... is proven right and beats Bayley in somewhat decisive fashion. If Bayley goes ham and wins the Extreme Rules match, her character isn't torpedoed and the story makes more sense because there's an actual payoff to all of it. Miz/Shane looks to be headed that way, unless Miz finally gets his revenge at Summerslam or something
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 26, 2019 14:18:51 GMT -5
See, I assumed they were kinda feeding Miz to Shane in order to build up Shane as a heel in order to feed him to Reigns. That's the weird problem with a ton of Reigns's booking. They build people up for him, but then he himself jobs to them. That's 100% how not to book. It's the same deal as having Lesnar end The Streak and basically kill John Cena as a top guy in order to feed him to Reigns, but then not even feed him to Reigns.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 6,999
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Post by nate5054 on Jun 26, 2019 14:24:40 GMT -5
There are so many issues with wwe now that if you argued which one was the most pressing is probably agree with all of them.
That said my big complaint with it is the absolute over production. Every episode feels the same for the past 15 years or so.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 16:03:55 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem with WWE at the moment is the structure of the show itself. It's played out, boring, and predictable, and yet the Wildcard rule and the getting around commercials thing have somehow simultaneously turned it into gibbering nonsense.
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Post by michael on Jun 26, 2019 17:51:40 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem with WWE at the moment is the structure of the show itself. It's played out, boring, and predictable, and yet the Wildcard rule and the getting around commercials thing have somehow simultaneously turned it into gibbering nonsense. It's quite a feat of incompetence to be both chaotic yet boring.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,576
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Post by Dub H on Jun 26, 2019 20:35:17 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem with WWE at the moment is the structure of the show itself. It's played out, boring, and predictable, and yet the Wildcard rule and the getting around commercials thing have somehow simultaneously turned it into gibbering nonsense. It's quite a feat of incompetence to be both chaotic yet boring. WWE has been for a long time predictable yet rushed and last minute. It is amazing in a way.
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