Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 1, 2019 19:39:19 GMT -5
Honestly I don’t think I’ve seen a first time champ that’s a really solid win/win situation like Page/Jericho is. If Jericho wins, you have Kenny gunning for him, potential first time matches with guys like Havoc and an underdog feud with Jungle Boy they’ve been teasing that only benefits everyone. If Page wins, MJF is right there from the start, Cody could work with him, Moxley and others. Like there’s no established heel and face dynamic but there’s enough there you can make work. I know Jericho’s probably going to win and it makes more sense but the groundwork is there for a surprise. I think the only way this can be a loss is if the match sucks. If the match is good, I am glad with whoever wins.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jul 1, 2019 19:47:25 GMT -5
Outside of BTE (which is my only familiarity) saying "this is the guy" basically, I don't see why I should believe that. Cody, Jericho, Mox, Omega, the Bucks, MJF, hell even guys like Allin and Jungle Boy... hella guys stand out for one reason or another. They make me go "wow THIS is AEW and I like that flavor". Page doesn't do that to me yet. I want him to prove me wrong. Just to me so far he's just some dude.
I think the PAC match not happening is a part of the problem. He'll get a coming out party I'm hoping. I want to be wrong here.
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
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Post by Derk! on Jul 1, 2019 20:24:14 GMT -5
Dude lucked out being affiliated with Bullet Club/Elite. I don't see him as being a next top guy or anything, but he is young, hungry and surrounded by top notch in ring talents as well as some of the best backstage guys with decades of knowledge. He will do fine in the long run.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 1, 2019 20:42:31 GMT -5
It should have been Omega vs Moxley.
I know Moxley was last minute. Or at least Omega vs MJF.
As people says Page is a good talent but there is better talent than him.
And yes Scurll should be a future AEW champion.I dont even care if it would loook like the elite booking their friends on top,Scurll is great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 2:35:57 GMT -5
Every time I see “Adam Page” just picture Adam Pearce, another kind of bland dude that kept getting pushes where ever he went. Also when I see “Page” my head has to remember you guys aren’t talking about DDP.
They really should have let one of the “unsigned” guys like Luchasaurus win the Battleroyal. Then annoyed the next day that due to that they were signed to a contract.
Page should have had a short but hard hitting match against MJF or Havok on DoN. Then figured out his “championship match” reason on one of these next two shows. Maybe because he won the fatal fourway...I dunno this is why I’m not a booker.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 2, 2019 4:17:47 GMT -5
Outside of BTE (which is my only familiarity) saying "this is the guy" basically, I don't see why I should believe that. Cody, Jericho, Mox, Omega, the Bucks, MJF, hell even guys like Allin and Jungle Boy... hella guys stand out for one reason or another. They make me go "wow THIS is AEW and I like that flavor". Page doesn't do that to me yet. I want him to prove me wrong. Just to me so far he's just some dude. I think the PAC match not happening is a part of the problem. He'll get a coming out party I'm hoping. I want to be wrong here. I hadn't considered the PAC thing, but there's truth to that. That had to f*** with the order of how things were going to play out with the booking.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jul 2, 2019 5:57:18 GMT -5
Jericho is the big name they have who should hold the title especially as he is a heel. Page isn't ready yet, Moxley is a tweener and Omega should be chasing if you want casuals to care about him. I think the problem with Page right now is that their plans involving PAC blew up in AEW's face. I have to assume the plan was for Page to beat PAC thus beating a top champion to prove he was world champion material. The fact he got this title match by winning a pre-show battle royal against a bunch of low card, and comedy guys, doesn't really make it feel like he's earned it. This was also the same match involving Billy Gunn, Michael Nakazwa, Orange Cassidy, and Glacier; and with all due respect to each one, they're not world title material. It just looks even worse when you consider Jericho earned his place by beating AEW's ace. Honestly some of their booking feels overthought. Like the Fyter Fest pre-show tag three way for a shot at a potential bye in the tournament. But what that really means is that if the winning team earns that bye, they've actually wrestled one more match to win the tournament than anyone else. It doesn't really feel like a benefit. You take that back about Glacier not being world title material! Outrageous!
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 2, 2019 6:15:12 GMT -5
I think the problem with Page right now is that their plans involving PAC blew up in AEW's face. I have to assume the plan was for Page to beat PAC thus beating a top champion to prove he was world champion material. The fact he got this title match by winning a pre-show battle royal against a bunch of low card, and comedy guys, doesn't really make it feel like he's earned it. This was also the same match involving Billy Gunn, Michael Nakazwa, Orange Cassidy, and Glacier; and with all due respect to each one, they're not world title material. It just looks even worse when you consider Jericho earned his place by beating AEW's ace. Honestly some of their booking feels overthought. Like the Fyter Fest pre-show tag three way for a shot at a potential bye in the tournament. But what that really means is that if the winning team earns that bye, they've actually wrestled one more match to win the tournament than anyone else. It doesn't really feel like a benefit. I think the bye thing ultimately makes sense. The tournament hasn't started yet, so the Best Friends have way more time to heal up than anyone else in the second round is going to have had by the time they have to try to advance, so given how tournaments can be an endurance game, it's a good benefit, especially if some of the first round matches get hotly contested.
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Post by Jokaine on Jul 2, 2019 6:32:46 GMT -5
I don't see any particular thing about Adam Page that makes me think you should launch a company with him being the face of it, but he's a better option for the premiere episode of AEW Dynamite.
If they put the belt on Jericho, they're sending the message out of the gate that AEW is a dumping ground for ex-WWE guys who are either washed up or couldn't make it there. Chris Jericho, by episode 1, will be further removed from his first world title win than Ric Flair was from his at the first Nitro and Hulk Hogan was from his at the last Nitro.
Strapping Jericho up for the launch of the company that is supposed to be an edgy, new and fresh alternative to the WWE doesn't seem like a good move.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 2, 2019 7:15:08 GMT -5
How would they Pac match have helped him? He was going to lose there. I'm just wrapping my head around the notion of Neville being in someone's world title scene when the last time U.S. fans saw him he was jobbing to Enzo Amore. The reality is that AEW doesn't have anyone decent to throw at Page to keep him hot until the title match. They don't want to beat MJF at the moment and otherwise he went against a death match jobber like Jimmy Havok, Luke Perry's 150 lb. son, and Kip Sabien (who?). They don't have anybody.
I hate to say this but I tend to think Page/Jericho will be a bleh match. Jericho needs to be in there with "best in the world" level guys to have a great match at this point and even then it's not a surefire thing (Okada at Dominion).
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Post by BorneAgain on Jul 2, 2019 7:46:56 GMT -5
I guess when it comes to supporting his push and spotlight, no one's on the same Page.
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Post by Instant Classic on Jul 2, 2019 8:01:51 GMT -5
For someone who’s never seen him he comes off as a dollar store country Seth Rollins to me.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 2, 2019 8:12:01 GMT -5
For someone who’s never seen him he comes off as a dollar store country Seth Rollins to me. How so to Seth Rollins?
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 2, 2019 8:14:52 GMT -5
I think even if he ends up getting murderized by Moxley and loses the belt, Page is smarter for the first champ. I think leading with Jericho creates a situation that just looks kinda f***y. If the inaugural champion is someone new and unproven, it's a confirmation that AEW will be different and take chances. I've been describing the way they present people in their Youtube shows and even on their actual shows so far as "These aren't tomorrow's stars today, these people are already stars and if you tune in you'll see why". I think it's their biggest strength. If they've got to call an audible and kill off the push then so be it, but if the history books say that the first AEW champion was an attempt to make a new star, even if it fails, it saves them from being TNA 2: The Legend of Dixie's Gold.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2019 8:22:42 GMT -5
How would they Pac match have helped him? He was going to lose there. I'm just wrapping my head around the notion of Neville being in someone's world title scene when the last time U.S. fans saw him he was jobbing to Enzo Amore. The reality is that AEW doesn't have anyone decent to throw at Page to keep him hot until the title match. They don't want to beat MJF at the moment and otherwise he went against a death match jobber like Jimmy Havok, Luke Perry's 150 lb. son, and Kip Sabien (who?). They don't have anybody. I hate to say this but I tend to think Page/Jericho will be a bleh match. Jericho needs to be in there with "best in the world" level guys to have a great match at this point and even then it's not a surefire thing (Okada at Dominion). PAC losing to Enzo nearly 2 years ago literally has no bearing whatsoever right now. He’s been hot since left WWE and the people going to the first AEW shows knows what he is about
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Post by Instant Classic on Jul 2, 2019 10:38:59 GMT -5
For someone who’s never seen him he comes off as a dollar store country Seth Rollins to me. How so to Seth Rollins? Looks really, not personality or anything.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 2, 2019 10:43:15 GMT -5
How would they Pac match have helped him? He was going to lose there. I'm just wrapping my head around the notion of Neville being in someone's world title scene when the last time U.S. fans saw him he was jobbing to Enzo Amore. The reality is that AEW doesn't have anyone decent to throw at Page to keep him hot until the title match. They don't want to beat MJF at the moment and otherwise he went against a death match jobber like Jimmy Havok, Luke Perry's 150 lb. son, and Kip Sabien (who?). They don't have anybody. I hate to say this but I tend to think Page/Jericho will be a bleh match. Jericho needs to be in there with "best in the world" level guys to have a great match at this point and even then it's not a surefire thing (Okada at Dominion). PAC losing to Enzo nearly 2 years ago literally has no bearing whatsoever right now. He’s been hot since left WWE and the people going to the first AEW shows knows what he is about Plus,Enzo was also on a hot streak and cheated to win. Neville/PAC was ready to wreck main roster,move on to better things.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jul 2, 2019 11:03:48 GMT -5
Even as someone who isn't a fan of AEW, I love Adam Page and have since ROH.
With that said, they've made a few mistakes with their choice of world title match, part of which involves Page.
First, he's a way better heel than as a face unless he's suddenly improved on that front because when he had his short face run in ROH, it was so badly forced. None of it felt natural at all and it was a relief when he got added to the 600 members of Bullet Club. Even my mom, who is more a casual fan than anything else, thought he came across wrong as a face.
Second, if you're building someone to be one of, if not THE top face of your fledgling brand, you can't just have him as a transitional guy. That damages him in the eyes of fans, even if the damage seemingly isn't that bad. You have to give him the boost.
Third, and this is the big one for me and isn't a Page thing, JERICHO SHOULD NOT BE IN A WORLD TITLE MATCH IN 2019! I don't care if he's supposed to be a top heel or has name value. He's washed up and has nothing to offer BUT name value anymore. This is the kind of thing WWE gets (rightfully) bashed for on a regular basis, so how is it fine here? If AEW is being hailed as better than WWE yet does the exact same bad thing WWE is doing, they've already put themselves at risk of losing some of that massive amount of goodwill they have.
The sad thing is, Jericho is going to win because "WE GOTTA HAVE THAT NAME VALUE FOR WHEN WE HAVE OUR SHOW ON TNT!" And that's the wrong thing to do. If I'm Cody/Omega/the Bucks/the rest of the booking crew, I'm trying to use NEW stars to get people excited and MAYBE a couple of the other pickups like Moxley and (if whatever mess there is gets figured out) PAC, and that's not including Cody and Omega themselves. I'm not going with someone from the 90s. That's what WWE is doing and AEW is supposed to be DIFFERENT and BETTER. HOW IS PAST-PRIME JERICHO BETTER?!
I get they have a bind in terms of what they can logically do for a title match right away. I get that dropping Moxley in there would be a painfully TNA move. I get that Cody and Omega likely don't want to be in the first match since, considering they're running the show or doing some of the running, it makes for a very bad look. But do they have nobody else to put against Page, heel or face? Hell, why not do a one-night tourney? f***ing BUILD somebody if you haven't already, for crying out loud! There is no way of taking something WWE is doing wrong and doing it right because there is no right way to do it other than NOT DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
….Sorry about the rant, I saw the match advertised on the next PPV thread (using Tapatalk to go through the board on my phone has a tendency to show almost anything) and it's bothered the hell out of me for the last couple weeks or so now. And as I said at the start, I've been a Page fan for a while so it's ramped up the bothering.
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Post by eJm on Jul 2, 2019 11:18:46 GMT -5
How would they Pac match have helped him? He was going to lose there. I'm just wrapping my head around the notion of Neville being in someone's world title scene when the last time U.S. fans saw him he was jobbing to Enzo Amore. That’s literally not how anything works. By that logic, the last time US fans saw AJ Styles before WWE was him losing to Magnus for the TNA World title and losing his job. And just like you and PAC’s loss to Enzo, I’m ignoring all the context for that loss. Still waiting for that list of people who you think look like wrestlers and don’t suck. Because, again, people you’ve mentioned so far are over as hell.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 2, 2019 12:02:17 GMT -5
Guys that look like actual wrestlers in AEW: Moxley, Omega, Cody, Dustin, Jericho, Page, and we can debate the Bucks (about like the RNR Express). SCU, although Daniels looks a bit paunchy of late.
Guys that do not resemble actual wrestlers on a serious national TV promotion: Most of the goofs in that battle royale, the Librarians, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Joey Janela, Darby Allin, Nakazawa, Evans, etc.
Being over for a cult audience is one thing. TNT is going to expect some kind of ratings, and given some of the stuff AEW has shown us thus far I'm not positive on their chances.
As far as Pac goes, it is how it works for me. A guy that was last seen on the competitions's jobber cruiserweight show should not be in your world title scene if you want to be taken seriously. That is in fact how things work if you want to actually draw a mainstream audience.
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