Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 8:08:53 GMT -5
Commentators that actively struggle with not treating non-white wrestlers like novelty acts shouldn't be anywhere near the booth in 2019. Not just commentators. I've seen fans say shit like "Why do we need Del Rio back? We have Andrade!" or "Why do we need Tanahashi? We already have Nakamura." It baffles me that they think "Oh, we have ONE of these Mexicans and Asians. We don't need another." Like imagine thinking that.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Dec 4, 2019 9:04:33 GMT -5
Lawler is another one that is stuck in the past. He hasn't brought anything to the commentary table in years, and with the comments he's made recently I have no idea while he still has a job.
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.
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Post by . on Dec 4, 2019 9:21:12 GMT -5
So for full context; The Kabuki Warriors cut a promo mostly in Japanese only saying the phrases 'We beat you' and 'Easy Peasy' before facing off against Charolette on Raw.
Jerry Lawler said "I think I understood that last part, "We beat choo" in a sort of semi Asianish accent.
Was it stupid, yes. However, it wasn't a full-blown Mr. Yunioshi act.
Both Lawler and Cornette are simply products of a looser time in commentating when you didn't have to worry if your joke would get a hashtag the next day. There is a big debate that could be had about sensitivity vs woke culture but It isn't happening here.
As for my take, I'd be more irked about having the two Asian, bombshell, Women's tag team champions in question struggle for 15 minutes in a two on 1 handicap match against Nepotism Flair.
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Post by lemonyellowson on Dec 4, 2019 9:40:14 GMT -5
Legit question - If I speak in a faux English accent, not being English - or a faux American accent, not being american, am I racist? Depends if you are playing on a stereotypical way of speaking like "Oh i'm a american,so i'm gonna speak like a texan/redneck" But that is a legit type of American accent - why is it racist and a Boston or New York or Florida one not? My point is basically - who decides what is offensively stereotypical? and just because something is a stereotype doesn't make it bad or "problematic" - Take the Irish - We get our accents made fun of all the time - we get labelled alcoholics - but that is because we talk funny and drink a lot.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 4, 2019 9:44:56 GMT -5
Depends if you are playing on a stereotypical way of speaking like "Oh i'm a american,so i'm gonna speak like a texan/redneck" But that is a legit type of American accent - why is it racist and a Boston or New York or Florida one not? My point is basically - who decides what is offensively stereotypical? and just because something is a stereotype doesn't make it bad or "problematic" - Take the Irish - We get our accents made fun of all the time - we get labelled alcoholics - but that is because we talk funny and drink a lot. Because that is what people outside see as bottom joke about americans. The go to offense of "X are backyards and speak funny"
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Post by lemonyellowson on Dec 4, 2019 9:58:33 GMT -5
But that is a legit type of American accent - why is it racist and a Boston or New York or Florida one not? My point is basically - who decides what is offensively stereotypical? and just because something is a stereotype doesn't make it bad or "problematic" - Take the Irish - We get our accents made fun of all the time - we get labelled alcoholics - but that is because we talk funny and drink a lot. Because that is what people outside see as bottom joke about americans. The go to offense of "X are backyards and speak funny" I would say that there is an argument that the people that most promote the idea that this is the bottom joke about america is americans themselves - are they being racist? Anyway, I've said what I've had to say on the matter, I appreciate your responses and keeping it cordial - i just feel that this could get way off topic and the mods have enough of this carry on going on at the minute without me throwing an oar in. Peace.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 4, 2019 10:02:22 GMT -5
Because that is what people outside see as bottom joke about americans. The go to offense of "X are backyards and speak funny" I would say that there is an argument that the people that most promote the idea that this is the bottom joke about america is americans themselves - are they being racist? Anyway, I've said what I've had to say on the matter, I appreciate your responses and keeping it cordial - i just feel that this could get way off topic and the mods have enough of this carry on going on at the minute without me throwing an oar in. Peace. Just to add some more: Other countries dont have a big history of mocking American wat of speakin/ accents like the US has with other cultures. But if you search Japanese medias you ,can find some you can find close examples of offensive american stereotypes Context matters in these cases too. But yeh ,good talk! I will also drop it now. Anything else feel free to DM
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 4, 2019 10:11:26 GMT -5
He’s said some problematic things in the past. Not sure Lawler saying word for word what Asuka just said a minute before is something to be outraged by.
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Sam Punk
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Post by Sam Punk on Dec 4, 2019 10:24:26 GMT -5
Do we have to?
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Post by ogreknee on Dec 4, 2019 10:27:16 GMT -5
Commentators that actively struggle with not treating non-white wrestlers like novelty acts shouldn't be anywhere near the booth in 2019. Not just commentators. I've seen fans say shit like "Why do we need Del Rio back? We have Andrade!" or "Why do we need Tanahashi? We already have Nakamura." It baffles me that they think "Oh, we have ONE of these Mexicans and Asians. We don't need another." Like imagine thinking that. It makes me so angry reading bs like that. Why does it have to be one. Wwe is so diverse nowadays. We can have multiple minorities on tv
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Dec 4, 2019 10:46:12 GMT -5
Not just commentators. I've seen fans say shit like "Why do we need Del Rio back? We have Andrade!" or "Why do we need Tanahashi? We already have Nakamura." It baffles me that they think "Oh, we have ONE of these Mexicans and Asians. We don't need another." Like imagine thinking that. It makes me so angry reading bs like that. Why does it have to be one. Wwe is so diverse nowadays. We can have multiple minorities on tv "There can be only one!"
Ok, joke's over.
I completely agree with you.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 4, 2019 10:59:07 GMT -5
Ultimately there's about two to three instances a week of someone in wrestling saying things ranging from the somewhat problematic to the outright terrible. There's really not a lot of discussion to be had.
Should he have said it? No. Was it egregious enough to result in any consequences for anyone? No.
Jerry is a legend, but there's a reason you don't see a lot of 70+ year old sports pundits. Let alone ones given three hours of live TV and a brief to make jokes. It's an accident waiting to happen and I have a certain amount of sympathy for him if/when it does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 11:23:01 GMT -5
He’s said some problematic things in the past. Not sure Lawler saying word for word what Asuka just said a minute before is something to be outraged by. Yeah, I mean, Lawler isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt because of his history, but this? Nah, not unless we're going down the route of impersonating anyone who doesn't look like you = racist. And that's crap.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Dec 4, 2019 11:33:18 GMT -5
So for full context; The Kabuki Warriors cut a promo mostly in Japanese only saying the phrases 'We beat you' and 'Easy Peasy' before facing off against Charolette on Raw. Jerry Lawler said "I think I understood that last part, "We beat choo" in a sort of semi Asianish accent. Was it stupid, yes. However, it wasn't a full-blown Mr. Yunioshi act. Both Lawler and Cornette are simply products of a looser time in commentating when you didn't have to worry if your joke would get a hashtag the next day. There is a big debate that could be had about sensitivity vs woke culture but It isn't happening here. As for my take, I'd be more irked about having the two Asian, bombshell, Women's tag team champions in question struggle for 15 minutes in a two on 1 handicap match against Nepotism Flair. This person gets it. Lawler is from the old days, more than most still left in a high-profile-position in the WWE today since he literally built up the Memphis territory brick-by-brick with his bare hands. He's a wrestling pioneer in many ways, and literally the only person who's had a stroke on live WWE tv while doing commentary so it's a given he's gonna be allowed to say whatever he wants as long as it isn't clearly offensive. Now, we can say the 'WE BEAT CHOO' line was borderline offensive but let's also acknowledge that heels talking in fluent Japanese to confuse live fans in Nashville, TN (I was there live since I live in Nashville btw) is something you boo as a US citizen who speaks English. Yeah, I like Japanese wrestlers, but if they shout at me in obscenities in Japanese, a language I don't speak, they're getting boo'd. Given. Lawler saying what he said was something a kid in the crowd would've said. Because a kid in the crowd doesn't care about his Twitter presence, or their social media reputation, they hear a Japanese saying something in "Engrish" and that they are a heel, so they'll probably make fun of the thick accent. Jerry Lawler is commentating to the kids in the crowd, and at home watching as an obvious heel that gets them riled up. If I had heard his commentary live (again, I was at the show in the crowd so I had to hear about this whole debacle the day after) I wouldn't have batted an eye. It's a far cry from making a long "joke" about Ethopians starving to death ala Cornette, and I'm a HUGE Cornette fan for similar reasons to Lawler's Memphis history (yeah I'm biased since I'm from Tennessee, fight me).
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 4, 2019 12:43:55 GMT -5
The fact that the "joke" was because a "foreign language = bad" promo says a lot about WWE
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Post by Cyno on Dec 4, 2019 13:56:50 GMT -5
Americans and British aren't races. They're nationalities. Doing stereotypical accents is buying into a stereotype, but it's literally not racist because there's no race involved, especially one that has systemic disadvantages in society compared to a privileged group.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 4, 2019 14:05:11 GMT -5
Americans and British aren't races. They're nationalities. Doing stereotypical accents is buying into a stereotype, but it's literally not racist because there's no race involved, especially one that has systemic disadvantages in society compared to a privileged group. This reminds me of jokes of foreigners trying to impersonate white americans "I will put this in my credit card"
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 4, 2019 14:45:55 GMT -5
Commentators that actively struggle with not treating non-white wrestlers like novelty acts shouldn't be anywhere near the booth in 2019. Not just commentators. I've seen fans say shit like "Why do we need Del Rio back? We have Andrade!" or "Why do we need Tanahashi? We already have Nakamura." It baffles me that they think "Oh, we have ONE of these Mexicans and Asians. We don't need another." Like imagine thinking that. There are sometimes extra layers to that though. Like Del Rio was pushed to be the big new Mexican star fairly quick but sucked. Now there's a more talented wrestler who can be the Mexican hero. Del Rio has lost his one upside (other than Ricardo) so whats the point in him getting a 27 million dollar contract? Doesn't mean there's not a place for multiple other Mexican wrestlers with more of an upside. This is also often thinking in a WWE way not a personal opinion, afterall Jinder didn't become WWE champion due to being the best on the roster. People also moan about FCW clones, indy flippy vanilla midgets or UK Takeovers being all white guys with beards dressed in black.
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Post by sportatorium on Dec 4, 2019 15:22:47 GMT -5
For me, it shows how little attention I pay to Raw when watching as I totally missed this. With Powerr, I watch the show closely and Cornette’s blunder was painfully obvious.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 4, 2019 16:53:25 GMT -5
You're absolutely right about it being racist garbage. Adding levels to it isn't really relevant even if it isn't as bad as Cornette, because both of these guys have been enabled for decades to do this shit. And frankly Heenan is still beloved despite saying some very questionable shit in those days too, and Heyman. Including by me now that I think about it. Might have to reflect on that a bit.
As for why there isn't a thread? I dunno, but I can think of some possibilities.
The difference for one thing is WWE are expected to be morally bankrupt, sweep these things under the rug and ignore it until it goes away. They hired Hogan back, and that guy literally said on tape he was a racist. NWA's show was a new thing starting out and Cornette nearly destroyed them single handed.
For me, I didn't start a thread because I don't watch WWE any more, and part of the reason I don't is because of, for example, putting people on commentary who will say racist shit with no fear of reprimand except maybe unless a sponsor complains.
People complain about JR too, and they should really, but it seems pretty obvious that the other commentators and AEW themselves are clearly trying to reel JR in, and even if he keeps making mistakes I also keep hearing him incrementally learning to edit his language choices.
Maybe that could be true of Lawler now as well, I no longer hear his work, but he is also far from the only problem with the promotion if you care about that sort of thing.
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